ToS NM Cleared Day 1 by pugs and Heroic by Guilds, Yet LFR has to wait 2 months.

[Jimson]

I think both sides have merit but I think if we were to look at blizzards previous statement a few weeks/month back, they create the content at the HEROIC level and cut mechanics, etc. for normal and lfr, and add mechanics (or tune) for mythic. From this alone, "real raiding" as you put it would be Heroic and Mythic, while Normal is a shadow of the content, and LFR would be a visual snapshot of the story.

That aside, going back on track, from the OP's original point, being a Mythic raider myself, I completely agree that while the "forced" aspect of LFR would exist if it was opened day 1, there is no reason why LFR should not be open day 1 (in full or just the first wing). I have my own viewpoints on LFR as does everyone else in this thread but lets get back on topic of why LFR has to wait.

Logically speaking, LFR being gated from a story perspective makes no sense since the entire raid is unlocked for Normal difficulty and above on day 1. If all difficulties were gates in some fashion and slowly unlocked over time, then it would make sense to do the same with LFR. On a slightly different note, I think blizzard had the perfect opportunity this tier to change this with the Broken Shore "breaching the tomb". They could have easily merged this with the unlocking of "wings" of the raid as we breached further inside each week.

Interesting points on difficulties. For the record I believe raiding is different for everyone. One man's normal is another man's mythic, and neither is better or worse than the other solely because of it. I love multiple difficulties for a lot of reasons, but 50% of the reason I loathe them is the pedestal some people feel it places them on when looking down at others. (The other 50% is the gear level explosion, but that's a different topic.)

Like I said a ways back I wouldn't open LFR in full on day 1. If they want to gate it a week at a time, sure. But two weeks between wings is just brutal. Between the time spent waiting and the inevitable shit "elite" players will be spewing once LFR opens up in full and they "have" to go through it for gear, I'm thinking about just pugging a normal every week and calling it good if I can't get a group.

[Jtbrig7390]

This guy is trolling you all so hard.

Hate to break this to you, but not everyone who has a different opinion then you is trolling.

[Jaylock]

And yet you call NM effort? The difficulty is dam near the dam, only thing difference is I can que for one.

Also at lease you showed your true colors (once again) and branded everyone who does LFR as people who don't put in effort.

Put 25 random strangers who queue up together with a blizzard set min ilvl requirement into Normal ToS and I bet the raid falls apart after the first few wipes on the first boss.

LFR is not equal to normal in difficulty. LFR is a set of target dummies lined up that happens to drop loot when destroyed.

[Better]

So why is LFR getting gated 2 months when ToS is already being cleared by pugs day 1 and heroic by guilds day 1. It makes zero sense and just shows blizzard is trying to please a few at the cost of many.

There's a few reasons:
One is that delaying it's initial release prevents Mythic raiders from having to clear LFR, Normal, and Heroic on all their toons on the first week for tier, and trinkets.
The delay after that is to give you a sense of progression for a difficulty you're meant to be in. A guild that was doing only normal NH up until this patch didn't clear N ToS day one. Due to the nature of LFR anybody could full clear day one if it were all available, which just robs you of all sense of progressing through a raid.

Your example is using the example that "People that outgear the instance are PuGing it day one, and guilds that were in Mythic got through heroic day one! Clearly this is a bad thing!"

[Eleccybubb]

if i call my dog a cat is it a cat?

Did you just assume your dog was a cat?!

[Derpleton]

if i call my dog a cat is it a cat?

Well if your dog meows like a cat eats cat food acts like a cat etc. Then it's probably a cat not a dog

[Jtbrig7390]

if i call my dog a cat is it a cat?

Deflecting once again, I though u said u was done here.

Yet you can't seem to help yourself and keep replying.

[Jimson]

And trying to find a group (once again in the US, Not speaking for EU) as a ret dps that isn't AOTC day 1 or ilvl 950+(example) is a fucken nightmare. I rather not spend hours doing something that can be done in minutes.

Don't make finding groups harder than it is. I joined several that didn't require Curve and didn't have outlandish ilvl requirements. You need to be patient while you look and be prepared to fail.

[Eleccybubb]

Don't make finding groups harder than it is. I joined several that didn't require Curve and didn't have outlandish ilvl requirements. You need to be patient while you look and be prepared to fail.

This. I had it on EU. I mean it was smooth but I still got declined for some.

[Jtbrig7390]

There's a few reasons:
One is that delaying it's initial release prevents Mythic raiders from having to clear LFR.

Stopped here this isn't a argument, If you are a Mythic raider u don't need LFR.

[Derpleton]

Don't make finding groups harder than it is. I joined several that didn't require Curve and didn't have outlandish ilvl requirements. You need to be patient while you look and be prepared to fail.

This is also true, but an annoying inconvenience for people that would rather spend 10 minutes in an automated queue.

[Eleccybubb]

Stopped here this isn't a argument, If you are a Mythic raider u don't need LFR.

Actually if a BiS trinket/piece of gear Titanforges from LFR yes you do.

[Jtbrig7390]

Don't make finding groups harder than it is. I joined several that didn't require Curve and didn't have outlandish ilvl requirements. You need to be patient while you look and be prepared to fail.

I have and once again spending hours to do something I can do in minutes is not something I care to enjoy.

Even more so when I wish to do it on a few toons.

[Eleccybubb]

I have and once again spending hours to do something I can do in minutes is not something I care to enjoy.

Even more so when I wish to do it on a few toons.

But Normal doesn't take hours. NH Normal weekly runs took me just over an hour tops.

[Jtbrig7390]

Actually if a BiS trinket/piece of gear Titanforges from LFR yes you do.

Ya and that requires hitting the lotto.

By ur logic nothing should reward loot.

[Eleccybubb]

Ya and that requires hitting the lotto.

By ur logic nothing should reward loot.

But you said earlier that the best gear CAN drop from there did you not?

So why wouldn't a Mythic raider take their chance at a maxxed out Titanforged piece?

[Jtbrig7390]

Pugging in a group is literally faster than LFR lmao

No it isn't, but hey thx for spewing more bullshit.

[Flurryfang]

How is that fair at all really? You can get max ilvl gear from WQ's that require you to collect squirrel nuts. You can get max ilvl doing NM dungeons.

So its clearly not a issue with gear.

So why is LFR getting gated 2 months when ToS is already being cleared by pugs day 1 and heroic by guilds day 1. It makes zero sense and just shows blizzard is trying to please a few at the cost of many.

Before someone jumps in and just goes "go pug it scrub" or some shit. Those types of reply's are one of the many reasons people avoid LFG and Progression guilds.


At this point and with the current loot system gating LFR the way they do is not needed. My $15 a month holds the same value as anyone elses, So why must my content be gated 2 months to please a small minority.

The LFR delay is to simulate a normal players progression in ToS, if you raid at an average lvl. It is actually even made slower, so that the ending of the instance and the bossfights to come as you progress, are not spoiled for you before you get to the final boss. Blizzard want YOU to go into a pug or a guild group and do the content, instead of just doing LFR for a quick look. They will provide that later, but at the start, the reward of experiencing the raid, is given to people who find together by themselfs.


You have no reason to whine really. You will get to see the instance through LFR, just wait a while. Also, even though you don't like the argument, Blizzard themselfs would proberly say, that you are not being limited at all and Tomb of Sargeras is fully open to atm, you just have to find other people to experience this multiplayer instance.

[Derpleton]

Pugging in a group is literally faster than LFR lmao and boss kill time is probably the same

I wish, I'm writing this as I've been sitting here trying to get a group for the last 2 hours

[Jtbrig7390]

But you said earlier that the best gear CAN drop from there did you not?

Yep it can also drop from collecting squirrel nuts and if blingtron, Once again requiring you to hit the lotto. Are you saying collecting squirrel nuts and blingtron is required as well.