Havoc in Legion: 7.2.5 Guide

[cafecito820]

Logged into my DH after not playing him for a while... wtf did they do to this class?

I really digged the Momentum spec with Fel Rush resets from Blur, now it's just a boring RNG-focused press 2 button + cooldowns spec...

Yea, I kind of feel the same. I *really* hate how the Demon Blades talent takes away our active Fury generator. You basically auto attack waiting for procs and/or cooldowns. It just makes it feel like you're not in control and being held back somehow. The Demonic build is widely considered to be lower DPS, but I enjoy it way more.

[gaaara]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13/#dataset=99

For the time being demon hunters have fallen behind, but it could get back on top once we have t20

[nox597]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13/#dataset=99

For the time being demon hunters have fallen behind, but it could get back on top once we have t20

You should probably take that with a hefty dose of salt... Those are from the first parses of people doing ToS, the day after its release, for the 99% percentile. If you change the percentile around, we're fairly middle of the road. And as you said, that's without many people having ToS gear or T20 sets, and many people are still learning the fights.

Seeing far too many doomsayers on the forums quoting those statistics...The sky's not falling!

[Deix-EU]

You should probably take that with a hefty dose of salt... Those are from the first parses of people doing ToS, the day after its release, for the 99% percentile. If you change the percentile around, we're fairly middle of the road. And as you said, that's without many people having ToS gear or T20 sets, and many people are still learning the fights.

Seeing far too many doomsayers on the forums quoting those statistics...The sky's not falling!

Yeah but the fact it never happened is a true fact. With grain of salt, I'm in the guess other classes will destroy us, don't forget we're not alone with the T20 lel ? Not like top classes in this chart are full geared too yet... I geared up my frost mage for this purpose.

[Ysho]

You should probably take that with a hefty dose of salt... Those are from the first parses of people doing ToS, the day after its release, for the 99% percentile. If you change the percentile around, we're fairly middle of the road. And as you said, that's without many people having ToS gear or T20 sets, and many people are still learning the fights.

Seeing far too many doomsayers on the forums quoting those statistics...The sky's not falling!

Yeah, the sky is pretty much falling. T20 is dreadfully weak for us vs. other classes. We can be competitive if only a very specific set of encounter conditions are met (and by competitive I mean expect to be 5th or 6th in dps). Primarily single target focused. We do not have a competitive AoE option. We get destroyed on AOE even using memebeam.

[Teevo]

So, has it been confirmed that haste is now better than mastery, and we want it after crit? And even with the nerf Chaos Theory is still BiS leggo next to AotHG? Can someone give me the rationale behind that, I like to understand that kind of stuff.

I mean, what I gather is that the change to CB devalued mastery, and the t20 set bonus hinges on getting as many blade dance/death sweeps in as possible to capitalize on the negative fury cost. If that's not right, or is only partially right, I'd love to know.

I think I saw some math that Chaos Theory proc chance is such that in a 6 min fight you'll get an extra chaos blades out of it.

One other thing, is it better to play demonic this tier than cb?

Given the BiS list on the first post, I'm guessing other legendary combos are essentially obsolete?

[Grapefruitsnz]

Any idea how good the Darkmoon card is now that it can be upgraded to 900? The trinket list from the DH discord only has it simmed to 880 right now, yet I'm seeing a few of the top Havocs on my server using it.

[Mamut]

After Mistress Sassz'ine fight Im so dissapointed. With constant aoe we are basically destroyed by every spec ingame. And our aoe was one of the strongest before (atleast burst). Im not really sure where Blizz want us to see but atm we are not that strong in st and weak in aoe.

[Deleted]

Any idea how good the Darkmoon card is now that it can be upgraded to 900? The trinket list from the DH discord only has it simmed to 880 right now, yet I'm seeing a few of the top Havocs on my server using it.

It is really, really good. Depends on your gear/legendaries a bit of course.

I run Shoulders+AotHG with 1 Meta relic and 2 CC relics (~1.070.000 DPS ST for a 450 second fight). I have as trinkets:
910 Memento Angerboda
865 Arcano Crystal
890 BTI
900 Darkmooncard
905 EoC
[all the NH trinkets at 905 were worse than Arcano/Memento/BTIfor me]

Pure ST EoC is the best (expected), Arcano being 2nd and the Darkmooncard is only ~1k behind the Arcano Crystal for me. So I use Arcano+Darkmoon on everything where the EoC-uptime is low. It is also nice to play with because it gives you a constant damage increase and isn't as much "fest or famine" as some other trinkets (like Elemental Foci).

[Zasriel]

It is really, really good. Depends on your gear/legendaries a bit of course.

We run very similar. Except my Arcano is 860 and my BTI is 895. The 900 DM: D is a 4k DPS increase over Arcano. To me, that's not worth the investment.

EDIT:

However, once we lose our 4pc (and therefore 8% crit) then the crit trinket may be tops.

[Deleted]

How much crit does the 900 Darkmooncard-set have?
I'm currently running a 880 pvp trinket with agi / crit (and i like it).
And now i'm thinking about this darkmoond-upgrade.
Would be 20 itemlevels (~300 agi) + ?? crit?

	level 815	level 850		add	rating		add %	rating
	668		925			257	1182		38,47	1281
	763		1057			294	1351		38,53	1464
	859		1189			330	1519		38,42	1646
	954		1321			367	1688		38,47	1829
	1050		1454			404	1858		38,48	2013
	1145		1586			441	2027		38,52	2197
	1240		1718			478	2196		38,55	2380
	1336		1850			514	2364		38,47	2562
median	1001,875	1387,5			1773,125			1921,553489

1700 or even 1900 would be awesome (for me)!

[nox597]

Some buffs for us, after the reset tomorrow

Demon Hunter

Havoc
Damage of all abilities increased by 2%.
Demon’s Bite damage increased by 46%.
Effect of Mastery: Demonic Presence (damage only) increased by 7%.

[Deix-EU]

Some buffs for us, after the reset tomorrow

Demon Hunter

Havoc
Damage of all abilities increased by 2%.
Demon’s Bite damage increased by 46%.
Effect of Mastery: Demonic Presence (damage only) increased by 7%.

Demon's bite only or Demon's blade too ? If Demon's Bite, lel. We could see a comeback of Momentum/VR with 46% ? hmm tests need to be done. My guess is no but It should bring talents close.

[Accendor]

It is very likely that this is only Demon's Bite because they said in some interview that they want to push Demonic a little bit.

[Pigglix]

Hey guys, does anyone know if the simc build of 27/06/2017 has the demon bite buff rollin?

Because i simmed myself and the diference between using prepared vs demon blade was ~20k

The build used was the chaos blade/nemesis one, but changing demon blades with prepared.

So i think demon's bite might be back for those who hate demon blades.

My ilvl is 906 and i have 45% crit, 38% mastery, 7% vers and 10% haste.

The leggos running was cinidaria and aothg, both 940 ilvl and wearing 4 piece of t19.

Simc test was a 5 min test patchwerk style of fight.

Edit: Just did the test again, but using Chaos Cleave instead of First Blood and the diference between Prepared vs Demon Blades was only 5k in favor of Demon Blades.

I hope the simc is right, because one of the most fun i ever had with this class was being able to VR then FB back or Fel Rush back, couldnt do that before because it would mess up Momentum uptime, but now, it feels soooo good, and the big plus is 0 downtime in the rotation , cuz i dont get screwed by the DB rng.

[Zencurse]

Hey guys, does anyone know if the simc build of 27/06/2017 has the demon bite buff rollin?

Because i simmed myself and the diference between using prepared vs demon blade was ~20k

The build used was the chaos blade/nemesis one, but changing demon blades with prepared.

So i think demon's bite might be back for those who hate demon blades.

My ilvl is 906 and i have 45% crit, 38% mastery, 7% vers and 10% haste.

The leggos running was cinidaria and aothg, both 940 ilvl and wearing 4 piece of t19.

Simc test was a 5 min test patchwerk style of fight.

Edit: Just did the test again, but using Chaos Cleave instead of First Blood and the diference between Prepared vs Demon Blades was only 5k in favor of Demon Blades.

I hope the simc is right, because one of the most fun i ever had with this class was being able to VR then FB back or Fel Rush back, couldnt do that before because it would mess up Momentum uptime, but now, it feels soooo good, and the big plus is 0 downtime in the rotation , cuz i dont get screwed by the DB rng.

tl;dr Fel Mastery/Prepared is stronger prior to T20 than FB/DB

Due to a multitude of aspects including
A. Our recent itemization towards mastery over haste or vers
B. Obviously the buff to prepared, demon's bite, and our base mastery
C. A lack of T19 forcing to take First Blood and taking Chaos Cleave instead which leads me to...
D. Chaos Cleave and Fel Mastery's synergy with our mastery

Prior to 4pc T20 Prepared out performs Demon Blades in sims (though in practice they are similar due to the inherent requirements to use prepared effectively). Once you reach T20 however and First Blood becomes essentially mandatory, you lose Chaos Cleave's synergy with your mastery, which makes taking Fel Mastery to compound that synergy fall off drastically. Since Demonic Appetite has low synergy with First Blood as well and is in general a weaker talent before any synergy's with other talents, and of course Demon Blades becoming stronger with crit as we continue to gear, Demon Blades eventually wins out again.

The offshoot of this of course is the consideration of a build utilizing Soul of the Slayer which allows you to pick Chaos Cleave back up and increasing again our synergy with mastery a possibility. However due to the increased value of haste with our T20 and both the Shoulders and the Cloak in general being stronger picks with the AotHG (shoulders being just powerful at a base level, and the big boost the cloak gets with T20 and First Blood) means that this legendary combo just isn't as viable as one of the above listed.

Fel Mastery/Prepared could gain value in a multi-target fight using the bracers and soul ring to get a First blood/bloodlet cleave build going where the increased AOE damage provided from Fel Mastery could gain value, thus allowing Prepared to become better (The Felblade/Demon Blades synergy is very strong in ST but falls off in AOE due to hitting less targets with your primary fury generator outside of Autos or DB) in that situation. Essentially this would return us to a similar state we were in at the start of Legion with our Momentum/Bloodlet builds but this would only be for high sustained cleave situations and the general viability of Demonic boosted by the buff to Demon's Bite as well could make that build better in the first place for such a situation.

[Deix-EU]

tl;dr Fel Mastery/Prepared is stronger prior to T20 than FB/DB

Due to a multitude of aspects including
A. Our recent itemization towards mastery over haste or vers
B. Obviously the buff to prepared, demon's bite, and our base mastery
C. A lack of T19 forcing to take First Blood and taking Chaos Cleave instead which leads me to...
D. Chaos Cleave and Fel Mastery's synergy with our mastery

Prior to 4pc T20 Prepared out performs Demon Blades in sims (though in practice they are similar due to the inherent requirements to use prepared effectively). Once you reach T20 however and First Blood becomes essentially mandatory, you lose Chaos Cleave's synergy with your mastery, which makes taking Fel Mastery to compound that synergy fall off drastically. Since Demonic Appetite has low synergy with First Blood as well and is in general a weaker talent before any synergy's with other talents, and of course Demon Blades becoming stronger with crit as we continue to gear, Demon Blades eventually wins out again.

The offshoot of this of course is the consideration of a build utilizing Soul of the Slayer which allows you to pick Chaos Cleave back up and increasing again our synergy with mastery a possibility. However due to the increased value of haste with our T20 and both the Shoulders and the Cloak in general being stronger picks with the AotHG (shoulders being just powerful at a base level, and the big boost the cloak gets with T20 and First Blood) means that this legendary combo just isn't as viable as one of the above listed.

Fel Mastery/Prepared could gain value in a multi-target fight using the bracers and soul ring to get a First blood/bloodlet cleave build going where the increased AOE damage provided from Fel Mastery could gain value, thus allowing Prepared to become better (The Felblade/Demon Blades synergy is very strong in ST but falls off in AOE due to hitting less targets with your primary fury generator outside of Autos or DB) in that situation. Essentially this would return us to a similar state we were in at the start of Legion with our Momentum/Bloodlet builds but this would only be for high sustained cleave situations and the general viability of Demonic boosted by the buff to Demon's Bite as well could make that build better in the first place for such a situation.

^This, and ... "though in practice they are similar due to the inherent requirements to use prepared effectively"
Goroth, Mistress, Desolate are candidates.

[Jastall]

Killed Harjatan and got a 915 Relic with a bad trait. Worth replacing my 895 with Critical Chaos?

[A-sayo]

A Critical Chaos trait is roughly equal to 5 ilvl according to Icy-Veins.

[HeiAggra]

One question peeps, is there a cap on haste now?
I cant seam to find one!