Trump. Actually. Just. Tweeted. This.

[Berndorf]

That's not my version of history, those are facts. If you ask people in Iraq now, you might get all kinds of answers. I think if you were to ask them how they felt in the period up to the US withdrawl, when they had their first elections under the new constitution, and then asked them how they felt when they lived under a ruler who's sons would travel the country looking for weddings to crash so they could rape and murder brides on their wedding night, they might give a different answer still.

It is your version to a degree. You are making your own conclusions based on your own beliefs regarding the need for the us gov't to intervene in that region and the aftermath that followed. Just as people like Madeleine Albright will sit here and say how the sanctions on Iraq during the 90's which killed an estimated hundreds of thousand of women and children being worth it. That's easy for her to say isn't it? Just as its easy to for anyone in America to sit here and justify everything that's happened in Iraq for the last 15 years because you can point to a few things which allow you to justify it all in your own mind. I don't think I can do that and i don't think you would be able to if it had been your family which was killed by a bomb or from any of the various radical Muslim groups which made their way into Iraq after the invasion. How many car bombs have been detonated in that country in the last 10 years which killed hundreds of men, women and children? I recall a time when it seemed like there was 1 or 2 every week for months at a time which would kill 100+ people every time they went off.

[Breccia]

Trump's been going for THREE DAYS straight against TV hosts. That's his relaxation.

To be fair, he is also on the golf course.

Again.

[Orbitus]

Bush's war? I seem to remember something about a joint declaration of congress authorizing that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

You have to remember, the declaration of war was based on Bush's and Cheney's lies though.

[Beardless Man]

Oh my god, Trump did a thing. Like we should totally make a thread about Trump.. for the hundredth time!

Honestly, I don't get the reason why it's worrisome. The 4th of July is 3 days away.

[Glnger]

Also, I don't think I have seen you post that much and see that you have a quote from me as a sig. That is one of my favorites.

heh. yeah, it was so amazingly spot on in the thread you posted it in, and then in every other thread and my own personal interactions with him lol.

[Merkava]

You have to remember, the declaration of war was based on Bush's and Cheney's lies though.

Again, show me the lies. But before you do, you might do well to read the Joint Resolution.

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It is your version to a degree. You are making your own conclusions based on your own beliefs regarding the need for the us gov't to intervene in that region and the aftermath that followed.

The need for us to intervene is entirely irrelevant to the reality of the situation as it existed in Iraq in 2011. You said it the intervention in Iraq lacked any real merit. I listed factual examples. Sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative.

[Orbitus]

Again, show me the lies. But before you do, you might do well to read the Joint Resolution.

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The need for us to intervene is entirely irrelevant to the reality of the situation as it existed in Iraq in 2011. You said it the intervention in Iraq lacked any real merit. I listed factual examples. Sorry if that doesn't fit your narrative.

The declaration of lies were based on that Iraq had WMDs

[Merkava]

The declaration of lies were based on that Iraq had WMDs

A lie is an intentional falsehood. Make your case.

[Edge-]

A lie is an intentional falsehood. Make your case.

I already linked you to an article detailing and providing evidence that all but conclusively indicate intentional falsehoods used by the administration to sell the war.

Would you like me to link them again, so that you can refuse again to address any of them?

[Merkava]

I already linked you to an article detailing and providing evidence that all but conclusively indicate intentional falsehoods used by the administration to sell the war.

Would you like me to link them again, so that you can refuse again to address any of them?

Would you like to have a link war with each of us pasting links back and forth like monkeys flinging shit, or would you like to have a discussion? I've asked you several times to please tell me which of those statements you linked to constituted a lie, and each time you refused. Again, for the fourth time, pick one and lets get started.

[Edge-]

Again, for the fourth time, pick one and lets get started.

All of them.

Your turn.

[Merkava]

All of them.

Your turn.

I'll indulge you with one, but only because I'm guessing that you have no real knowledge regarding this, beyond being able to Google "Bush, Lies, Iraq". Here goes

The first point in your Vox link says this...

In October 2002, Bush said that Saddam Hussein had a "massive stockpile" of biological weapons. But as CIA Director George Tenet noted in early 2004, the CIA had informed policymakers it had "no specific information on the types or quantities of weapons agent or stockpiles at Baghdad's disposal." The "massive stockpile" was just literally made up.

Can you show me the intentional falsehood there? The entire quote from Tenet, says this

We believe that Iraq had lethal biological weapons agents, including anthrax, which it could quickly produce and weaponize for delivery by bombs, missiles, aerial sprayers and covert operatives. But we said we had no specific information on the types or quantities of weapons, agent or stockpiles at Baghdad's disposal.

So, the "lie" in question seems to revolve around the quanitity of BW that Iraq posessed, and the fact that Bush used the word "massive." What was Bush's full quote from the speech mentioned? Here it is

"In 1995, after several years of deceit by the Iraqi regime, the head of Iraq's military industries defected. It was then that the regime was forced to admit that it had produced more than 30,000 liters of anthrax and other deadly biological agents. The inspectors, however, concluded that Iraq had likely produced two to four times that amount. This is a massive stockpile of biological weapons that has never been accounted for, and capable of killing millions."

Do you think 30k liters of anthrax might warrant the use of the word "Massive?" I don't know, but it sounds like a lot to me. Is there any evidence for Iraq posessing BW around the time that George Bush referred to? The Wikipedia page for Iraqi biological weapons says this happened in 1995

After Iraqi General Hussein Kamel al-Majid defected to Jordan in August 1995, the Iraqi government further disclosed that it had operated a robust BW program at six major sites since the 1980s. It was revealed that the Iraqi program conducted basic research on B. anthracis, rotavirus, camelpox virus, aflatoxin, botulinum toxins, mycotoxins, and an anticrop agent (wheat cover smut). It tested several delivery systems including aerial spray tanks and drone aircraft. The Iraqi government had weaponized 6,000 liters of B. anthracis spores and 12,000 liters of botulinum toxin in aerial bombs, rockets, and missile warheads before the outbreak of war in 1991.[15] These bio-weapons were deployed but never used

So, again, I've indulged you. Can you please show me the deliberate and intentional falsehood there?

Edit - In the interest of fair and honest discussion, I see that the Wikipedia page that I linked does not mention 30k liters of anthrax. It does however state this

After 1995, it was learned that, in all, Iraq had produced 19,000 liters of concentrated botulinum toxin (nearly 10,000 liters filled into munitions), 8,500 liters of concentrated anthrax (6,500 liters filled into munitions) and 2,200 liters of aflatoxin (1,580 liters filled into munitions).[8] In total, the program grew a half million liters of biological agents.[9]

I would like to note that half a million liters is greater than thirty thousand.

[Merkava]

^ you are missing a vital thing here - there are 7 years between what they said they had and when GWB said that.

In the meantime the WMD's were destroyed and inspections were made - there was no basis for a second Iraq war over WMD's.

That's fine. Show me that George Bush knew that in 2002, the BW he was referring to had been destroyed.

[minteK917]

At least he will go down in history as the worse president, you need at least one of those lmao. Reagan must be rolling in his grave.

[judgementofantonidas]

What does Hillary Clinton have to do with any of this?

nothing anymore. thank god.

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To be fair, he is also on the golf course.

Again.

isnt that what rich people do? things like chase tiny balls across vast fields of well kempt grass that could be better used to house the homeless?

[Vankrys]

Oh my god, Trump did a thing. Like we should totally make a thread about Trump.. for the hundredth time!

Honestly, I don't get the reason why it's worrisome. The 4th of July is 3 days away.

the buffoon-in-chief is actually highly entertaining.

MSNBC have nothing to lose to feud against the president of the united states, if anything it will bring attention to their show and increase their ratings. It the job and the stature of the POTUS to elevate the debate.

I firmly believes that a president, any president, republican or democrat, US or otherwise, should never go on a fight with the media. You respond to negative criticism by doing your job. You will have press that support you and press that don't. Let them fight among themselves, do your job.

I think Donald Trump is unfit for a political career, let alone president of the united states. Not only does he not have the competence for the job, but he apparently don't have the stature as well.

6 month into the presidency, i still don't understand what 48% of voters saw in him.

[Draco-Onis]

lol. I recall when Boris Yeltin gave his first real speech here in the us after overcoming a military coup and a bunch of other stuff to solidify power and he basically came over and said how they were in an economic crisis and possibly on the verge of collapse(we are talking a country which at the time had the largest or second largest nuke arsenal in the world) and then president Clinton literally stood behind him and started laughing uncontrollably due to the bad English Yeltsin was using to convey his message. He looked like a complete buffoon and made all of us look bad as well yet our media said not a word about him acting unpresidential or anything else. It wasn't even mentioned. Now here we are 25 years later and people want to act like Trump is so crass and yada yada the sky is falling because Trump says w/e he wants. This is all just manufactured hand wringing imo. That's all that it is. Other world leaders will just have to deal with it. It won't kill them just as it won't kill any of us. We just have to grin and bear it until he is out of office. Bush often said things that made him look like an imbecile also.

I think you're confusing times where presidents make mistakes versus someone who is just a piece of shit of a human being and revels in his dickishness. Bush and Clinton for all their faults respected the office they held same goes for everyone before them Trump only cares about Trump.

[Breccia]

[QUOTE=judgementofantonidas;4
isnt that what rich people do?[/QUOTE]

Indeed, but not too many of them spend 30% of their time on the golf course after
a) promising not to, and
b) attacking Obama for spending too much time on the golf course, despite spending far more time there himself, and
c) directly funneling taxpayer money directly into his own properties to do so.

Also he drives on the green because "stamina" Trump can't walk up a small hill without a golf cart.

Just so we're clear: I do feel that we could move/repurpose a fair number of golf courses. The one near where I grew up is now low-income housing, for example, and the city cheered the development.

[Deleted]

Indeed, but not too many of them spend 30% of their time on the golf course after
a) promising not to, and
b) attacking Obama for spending too much time on the golf course, despite spending far more time there himself, and
c) directly funneling taxpayer money directly into his own properties to do so.

Also he drives on the green because "stamina" Trump can't walk up a small hill without a golf cart.

Just so we're clear: I do feel that we could move/repurpose a fair number of golf courses. The one near where I grew up is now low-income housing, for example, and the city cheered the development.

Trump gets more done in 1 day that Barry did in 8 years. It took Barry 8 years to do the few things he DID do, and it has taken Trump less than 100 to undo Barry's "legacy".

I am glad he golf's "30%" of the time and I hope all his properties see increased profits due directly to him being the POTUS. I hope he makes BILLIONS off of being the POTUS

MAGA, baby!

[Vankrys]

Trump gets more done in 1 day that Barry did in 8 years. It took Barry 8 years to do the few things he DID do, and it has taken Trump less than 100 to undo Barry's "legacy".

I am glad he golf's "30%" of the time and I hope all his properties see increased profits due directly to him being the POTUS. I hope he makes BILLIONS off of being the POTUS

MAGA, baby!

define great.

because tax cut for the wealthiest family in america while throwing the poorest under the bus is not "great" in my book.