111 people died under California's new "legalized suicide law"

[Shadowmelded]

No, I'm saying it still leaves the position of an individual determining if suicide is 'okay' for their perception of 'right for them, wrong for them'. A person in physical pain should have more of a societal acceptance to kill themselves, yet someone who is 'only depressed' or 'only in psychological anguish' without the physical pain should not have equal acceptance or opposition (depending on your stance on suicide) when compared to the person with physical pain/conditions? I find that perspective pretty skewed with all sorts of double standards.

A depressed person *can* be treated and live a happy life, but you are grossly underestimating how difficult that is to 100% achieve for many individuals, the various types and degrees of depression affects said individuals in a wide spectrum that is far from easy and immediately treatable for those on one far end of the spectrum. I could also flip your stance on those suffering mental anguish, when coupled with a physical illness, by saying that not all people in such circumstances are completely unhappy (given the terrible circumstances). In fact, many people with such conditions as cancer, MS, etc have still had many sources of happiness despite pain and sorrow related to the conditions. As a result, the quality of life for everyone with such fatal conditions are far from being all negative. Should we assume that dying people are incapable of ever having a positive quality of life in anything from the moment of diagnosis?

It's not about which pain is worse. They're terminally ill. There's no hope of recovery. No chance for things to change. If they had time on their side then maybe people's opinions would be different, but they don't. There's no point in making their last days be full of suffering if they don't want them to be.

[Gaimen]

It's actually been shown that having laws that allow suiced does not actually change the rates. Most of the people that look into it don't actually follow through, those that do would likely have done it by other means.

For those that don't believe the psychological reasons should learn more about what it is like to live with refractory depression.

[Pantalaimon]

It's not about which pain is worse. They're terminally ill. There's no hope of recovery. No chance for things to change. If they had time on their side then maybe people's opinions would be different, but they don't. There's no point in making their last days be full of suffering if they don't want them to be.

Again I must ask; why is it that it is okay for people to assist in the death of a terminally ill person, but not for the individual capable of thinking for their self and wish to die for one or more reasons excluding terminal illness (such as depression)? Should hope of recovery dictate the choice to die? If we, as a society, cannot come to a consensus about why some or allowed to die while others are not then no groups should be given special legal treatment concerning the choice to die, until a more solid concensus is actually collaboratively made.

[hakujinbakasama]

But think of the children. If we could save just one child's life it would all be worth it.

[draganid]

nothing wrong with that. we put dogs down when they are too sick to recover and thats considered humane. if your dog has cancer and cant be cured, its considered cruel to not put it down. shouldnt be any different with people.

[Hooked]

Its a good start, hopefully the rest of them follow suit

[Maruka]

Seems like it is working pretty well then.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

i figured out two things,

first to fraud, have a mark get misdiagnosed with a terminal illness, then have them choose death, then do an autopsy proving they didn't have terminal illness, then sue for wrongful death.

If you get the doctor in on it too, very easy money.

If the "Mark" makes the choice to die...it's his choice. The Doctor only provided the prescription...after several requests made specifically by the "Mark". The Mark then took the pills, all on his own, and ended his life. There's no one to sue.

Even if it worked the way you think...The Doctor, by necessity, would have to be in on it (If he isn't then how do you guarantee that the mark is misdiagnosed). That means the doctor would have to be open to losing his license and going to prison.

Also, when the cause and time of death are already known...there often is no need to even perform an autopsy.

Second, if there was a way to collect the names of terminally ill patients, then match them with well known public figures who are okay with assisted suicide, then we can continuously ask them "why is your terminally ill relative wasting taxpayer money? can't you get them to die yet?" nonstop citing that they supported this bill.

It's a choice. Furthermore, the bill makes it so trying to pressure people to make the choice is itself a felony.

checkmates

Not even close.

[Deleted]

You're a cruel mother fucker if you want people to die in pain.

[Shadowmelded]

Again I must ask; why is it that it is okay for people to assist in the death of a terminally ill person, but not for the individual capable of thinking for their self and wish to die for one or more reasons excluding terminal illness (such as depression)? Should hope of recovery dictate the choice to die? If we, as a society, cannot come to a consensus about why some or allowed to die while others are not then no groups should be given special legal treatment concerning the choice to die, until a more solid concensus is actually collaboratively made.

Most of your post can be answered by; mental competency. That's the current consensus, that's why people with depression are treated differently (concerns that their depression is clouding their judgement). Also yes, hope of recovery is pretty important.

[Deleted]

We should do what we can to make their final days as peaceful as possible. Not give them the means to end their life. That's not right!

youre living in cloud cuckoo land, mate.

[Deleted]

Funny.

do you have terminal cancer or a uncurable disease that guarantees your death in a few months/years with agonizing pain ? If not, shut the fuck up.

DO you have some kind of paralysis where all you can do is stay in a bed/in a char all day long being bored to death ? If not, shut the fuck up.

Do you know anything about the suffering of a person who wants to simply die ? If not, shut the fuck up.

If they want to die, let them. Let them decide HOW and WHEN they want to die. Stop saying that they are being selfish... because the only selfish ones are the people against it.

So yeah, shut the fuck up.

Well said. When I was younger I had to watch my great aunt suffer with cancer, she degraded over time to the point where the simple act of breathing was agonising to her, I still remember her raspy, laboured breathing, and the look in her eyes, she had had enough, all she knew every day was pain and struggle, and I remember thinking to myself even at that young age, that it was unfair and unjust to keep her alive in this state.

Tennisace, now I speak directly to you, you are advocating a world where the helpless and sick die in agony, you are supporting an existence for these people of prolonged torment, you think it is within your rights to to dictate to others how they should die, you think yourself righteous I suppose, think you're helping people?

You are helping no one. You are a hypocrite, and I could not have more contempt for you.

[endersblade]

Who are you to tell people they have to live, regardless of how they feel? If someone wants to off themselves, let them. It's nobody's business but theirs.

[Flextt]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/28/health...-bn/index.html

Rather disturbing. We can only hope public opinion changes so that the law can be reversed. Why in the world are we encouraging this?

Its disturbing because of course its a tough read. Endure it. People have a right to decide.

[dubious_doomhammer]

These are people that are 99% likely to die - it's not someone that's depressed that thinks they have nothing to live for or some such.

These people have time limits, short time limits, 6 months or less to live - deciding to go on your own terms, peacefully, is perfectly acceptable and is definitely more humane than forcing them to suffer if they are mentally capable of deciding what *they* want to do.

[stomination]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/28/health...-bn/index.html

Rather disturbing. We can only hope public opinion changes so that the law can be reversed. Why in the world are we encouraging this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada
Its allowed in Canada. Perhaps you should focus there more than California. I'm sure you would know this.

[Pantalaimon]

Most of your post can be answered by; mental competency. That's the current consensus, that's why people with depression are treated differently (concerns that their depression is clouding their judgement). Also yes, hope of recovery is pretty important.

And a person who is terminally ill does not have potentially equal clouded judgement that is causing them to want to die sooner? You could have a person who wouldn't believe in medically assisted suicide one year, then have their condition worsen and suddenly the pain can affect their judgement, even their internal belief system, and cause it to affect how they would go about deciding to not choose medically assisted suicide. The fact that they are near death is not relevant, the person is still living at the time that they are wanting someone to kill them, and if a person is having their judgement clouded by the pain then they should not be allowed the option of medically assisted suicide (going by the 'general consensus logic').

[Demona3]

Because, living for years in debilitating pain while causing your friends and family untolds amount of $$$$ to keep you alive, when there is literally 0 chance you are going to live.

Prolonging suffering is torture, why do you condone torture Tennisace?

I agree with this 100%. Cancer is a terrible thing, and I've personally seen my sister in law die to it. She was in immense pain. Her kids (who were under 18 at the time), had to watch their mother slowly die in a painful way. It was a heartbreaking experience for everyone in our family.

[Shadowmelded]

And a person who is terminally ill does not have potentially equal clouded judgement that is causing them to want to die sooner? You could have a person who wouldn't believe in medically assisted suicide one year, then have their condition worsen and suddenly the pain can affect their judgement, even their internal belief system, and cause it to affect how they would go about deciding to not choose medically assisted suicide. The fact that they are near death is not relevant, the person is still living at the time that they are wanting someone to kill them, and if a person is having their judgement clouded by the pain then they should not be allowed the option of medically assisted suicide (going by the 'general consensus logic').

The fact that they're near death is relevant. One of the risks of someone whose judgement is clouded making the decision to kill themselves is that they might have changed their mind in time. Someone who is terminally ill won't get that chance. Their condition isn't going to improve.

[Noogai131]

I was not aware that Tennisace was a supporter of torture. You learn something new every day.

Canadians. They'll surprise you.