First Language Ever Invented?

[Deleted]

You don't know what cherry picking is either? Cause you don't know what language is and you obviously can't follow the format or lecture where the woman starts the fucking talk explicitly making a point she wasn't studying art. The symbols are language and her order flows all the way to the end where she connects to modern language. How did you miss that?

That's your uninformed inference.
Nowhere in the the TED video is suggested that the symbols are a language.

Again, that's no cherrypicking. If you pretend "language" to be broadly defined, emoji is a language. I'm ok with that: it's just your layman understanding.

[Doctor Amadeus]

You're making an unsupported claim, and I'm curious about its truthfulness: because I don't know if your claim is true or demonstrable.
Nowhere in the the TED video is suggested that the symbols are a language.
She's not making that claim. You're not presenting the evidence required to support your claim.

That's no cherrypicking at all. You're making a claim that may or may not be fundamented on your definition of language. So far, the implication you're making is that graphic communication (the video's claim) is language (your claim). If we accept your claim, as is, emoji is a language. So maybe your -so far unsupported- claim is in need to go over what language is.

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It is symbolic meaning. Just not structured enough to be a language, but a precursor to them at best.
/yawn.

It is structured over thousands of years and evolved. Cherry picking words now actually try reading the whole thing. Your bullshit claimed started by cherry picking the talk where she says it's not an official language and doesn't have an alphabet. You know words grouped together are done so for a reason right?

[Deleted]

It is structured over thousands of years and evolved. Cherry picking words now actually try reading the whole thing. Your bullshit claimed started by cherry picking the talk where she says it's not an official language and doesn't have an alphabet. You know words grouped together are done so for a reason right?

Nowhere in the the TED video is suggested that the symbols are a language. And she goes over what it isn't, which may or may not be an interesting bit towards your claim.
I'm not making the claim that it isn't, only expressing what I understand from the talk. You are making the claim that it is. You're not supporting your claim.

[Doctor Amadeus]

That's your uninformed inference.
Nowhere in the the TED video is suggested that the symbols are a language.

Again, that's no cherrypicking. If you pretend "language" to be broadly defined, emoji is a language. I'm ok with that: it's just your layman understanding.

You can't read you don't follow any language and now you're down to clinging to she didn't say the symbols are a language. You're done.

[Deleted]

You can't read you don't follow any language and now you're down to clinging to she didn't say the symbols are a language. You're done.

She didn't make the claim, no.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Nowhere in the the TED video is suggested that the symbols are a language. And she goes over what it isn't, which may or may not be an interesting bit towards your claim.
I'm not making the claim that it isn't, only expressing what I understand from the talk. You are making the claim that it is. You're not supporting your claim.

Nice gymnastics symbols wall paintings and symbols are language and the TED talk proves that. It isn't a claim it's a god damn fact.

[Deleted]

symbols wall paintings and symbols are language and the TED talk proves that. It isn't a claim it's a god damn fact.

The video doesn't make that claim. You're inferring it, based on a very layman understanding of the topic. An understanding that, so far, assesses that emoji is a language.

[Doctor Amadeus]

She didn't make the claim, no.

You didn't watch the talk or comprehend it. You also don't know what language is you're done.

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The video doesn't make that claim. You're inferring it, based on a very layman understanding of the topic.

Yawn /. Nice try on derailing bug bye.

[Deleted]

You didn't watch the talk or comprehend it. You also don't know what language is you're done.

I did watch the talk. Several times to try and understand what she's saying and what it is you're understanding.
She's not making that claim explicitly as you claimed before at least. Through your layman inference it could be understood as such (though that inference also implies emoji to be a language). But I rather not put words in her mouth.

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Yawn /. Nice try on derailing bug bye.

/shrug
You're making a remarkable claim. I'm just curious about it's truthfulness, nothing else. But you're not supporting your claim.

[Flarelaine]

None actually. Or at least we have no way of knowing what that language is or was. Most likely mankind developed the ability for language long before we started actively using it for serious communication.

Before language there was a kind of proto-language, or pre-language that exists in that nether region between just animal sounds and gestures and language, it doesn't exactly have lexicon, syntax, or grammar but it isn't just animal calls either.

Language likely developed independently among the proto-language using humans as we spread about and thus emerged independently.

If there was one single Proto-World as its sometimes called, then its likely impossible for us to ever know what it was like because the method by which we reconstruct language families relies on comparative triangulation among surviving or testable daughter languages.

So like using Sanskrit, Latin, Old Irish, Greek and Old Church Slovanic and Avastan we were able to construct Proto-Indo-European since it was clear these languages all had a common ancestor.

If P.I.E and say Semetic had a common ancestor it was likely so far back that its impossible to run the comparative analysis. After all in about ten thousand years, assuming say English, Hindi, and German all survive to create new daughter languages, then it is likely impossible by then to discover that ancestrally the new future language families were related because words and sounds change over time.

After all those political threads, I find myself in full agreement with Theodarzna. Clear and concise summary. Thank you.

[Slant]

What is the first Language that was invented and used in the early stages of Human history, like the first one ever noted.

Considering that writing came a geologically long period of time after the spoken language, this is an impossible question to answer.

[Osmeric]

Language must have coevolved with the capacity of human ancestors to have language. There would have been no point where one could have observed "this is a language, whereas previous to this point it wasn't a language."

It's like asking at which point our ancestors became intelligent.

[Theodarzna]

Symbols can be understood independent of language. Just a simple example, we don't have to know the language ancient Egyptians spoke to understand their hieroglyphs.

Bad example. A better one is say a painting, or hell even a clearly pornographic image. Say I draw a man and a woman having sex. That drawing will clearly be erotic in nature to anyone who see's it, even though I may not speak the language of the eventual viewer.

The Symbol is Sex, which can be understood. However if there was any deeper meaning, it would be up to the viewer to interpret it since the image two people having sex would not convey any specific message in any language.

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I did watch the talk. Several times to try and understand what she's saying and what it is you're understanding.
She's not making that claim explicitly as you claimed before at least. Through your layman inference it could be understood as such (though that inference also implies emoji to be a language). But I rather not put words in her mouth.

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/shrug
You're making a remarkable claim. I'm just curious about it's truthfulness, nothing else. But you're not supporting your claim.

I am curious if Mall Security can translate the precise meaning if the above symbols. Since he is convinced random drawings represent a language after all.

[Deleted]

It's quite possible that the first actual "language" (depends on how one defines the word) no longer exists, regardless of whether it had a written component or not, but especially if it didn't, so this might very well be a question that can never be answered.

A better question would be what is the oldest evidence of a language found anywhere, and to that there's a specific answer. Not one that I know, but someone else would.

[belfpala]

Bad example. A better one is say a painting, or hell even a clearly pornographic image. Say I draw a man and a woman having sex. That drawing will clearly be erotic in nature to anyone who see's it, even though I may not speak the language of the eventual viewer.

The Symbol is Sex, which can be understood. However if there was any deeper meaning, it would be up to the viewer to interpret it since the image two people having sex would not convey any specific message in any language.

It's actually a perfect example. Pictographic writing can be independent of spoken language (and is still today!) and can express complex meaning.

[The Penguin]

Mathematics.

The Universe is bound by it.

[Theodarzna]

It's actually a perfect example. Pictographic writing can be independent of spoken language (and is still today!) and can express complex meaning.

But hieroglyphics are writing in the Egyptian context. The symbols togeather represent an actual grammatical language that can be read by any person who knows the Egyptian language and writing system.

I.E. if you and I both know Ancient Egyptian and their Writing System we both can read the same exact Hieroglyphics and come to the exact same translated meaning.

Cave paintings are not language precisely because their meaning is up to the viewer. This is because we have zero reason to believe a few drawings of horses is a grammatical word or phrase. You and I have no way of knowing if the reason the person who etched the horses on the cave wall did it, or what their actual meaning is. It is POSSIBLE that each horse and drawing represents some very complex lexicon, but we have also no reason to believe it does either likewise we have no reason to believe your average drawing of hentai is actually a writing system for representing grammatical speech.

Pictographs can also be used to represent actual words, but you would need a massive sample of them to indicate that something is an inscription and not just artwork.

[belfpala]

But hieroglyphics are writing in the Egyptian context. The symbols togeather represent an actual grammatical language that can be read by any person who knows the Egyptian language and writing system.

Ok, I'll try a different example.

You can read "1 + 1 = 2" in any spoken language you'd like and it means the same thing. The symbols are independent of the language used to speak them.

[vitor210]

What is the first Language that was invented and used in the early stages of Human history, like the first one ever noted.

sumerian is the oldest language, taught to us from our creators the Annunnaki, "Those who from Heaven to Earth came"

[Theodarzna]

Ok, I'll try a different example.

You can read "1 + 1 = 2" in any spoken language you'd like and it means the same thing. The symbols are independent of the language used to speak them.

The symbols represent something. That is well known because Indians/Arabic numerals have become widespread. 100 years ago that would be gibberish to the vast majority of the world.

But, a linguist could at least see it and determine that these etchings clearly mean something. Its obviously writing, has a pattern and is trying to convey a message.

A better system might be 1 dot then a plus sign then another dot and then an equals sign and then two dots. That way the viewer might be able to extrapolate that you are combining the two dots and maybe show other examples of other mathematical formula. As an example if you broadcast to an alien 1 + 1 = 2 it might never be translated because they won't know the symbol 1 means one of something or that 2 means two of something. They are just lines on a screen or wall.

They have meaning because the representation of those lines has been explained to both you, me, and say someone whom speaks a language neither of us understand.

Hieroglyphics in Egypt represent speech, an actual spoken language. If you know that language and what the symbols correspond to, you and I can both see the symbols and know what they mean. If you don't know what the language the symbols are supposed to represent nor what the symbols correspond to you at best just know you are looking at a written message.

Your math example forgets that Arabic numerals are not universal. If you found someone unfamiliar with them, they would also not understand what these symbols mean. Take an isolated person from say North Sentinel island and he will not know what that means.

Cave paintings show no sign of representing grammatical language, I.E. they are certainly not writing. A drawing of a horse might represent a horse, or a Horse deity, or a spirit, or its just a drawing. The problem with Mall Securities point is that effectively he is arguing that a 12 year olds crude drawing of tits and dicks is representing a language, which is a very lay persons understanding of language. We cannot be certain at all the drawing is anything other than art. Which is why we delineate between artistic work and language. That is why a clay pot is not language in any linguistic sense.