How is Fire?

[Zenfoldor]

Dat update

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#

[nickseng]

Dat update

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#

I don't get why people keep linking overall. It's incredibly skewed.

If you look at per fights, Fire only really dominates on 1-2 fight.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/13#class=Mage

[MV Kaa]

And its the fights where there is a lot of aoe, which of course everyone knows is frost one downside.

[fiestatastic]

people in this thread that are supporting fire seem to not be great at math. Aoe / trash dmg bosses highly inflate overall dmg numbers. They skew the overall numbers for several bosses. If warcraftlogs hadn't completely discounted parses for Skorp, then fire would have seemed to have been in a GREAT spot overall for NH, and Aff would have been so far out in front of every spec that half of WoW would have rerolled, and Ele Shamans would have seemed like they were doing great. AoE parses skew the overall stats to being unreliable, and since no fights from ToS are being thrown out you need to evaluate it fight by fight.

And if you do that you can clearly see that fire still sucks.

[MV Kaa]

people in this thread that are supporting fire seem to not be great at math. Aoe / trash dmg bosses highly inflate overall dmg numbers. They skew the overall numbers for several bosses. If warcraftlogs hadn't completely discounted parses for Skorp, then fire would have seemed to have been in a GREAT spot overall for NH, and Aff would have been so far out in front of every spec that half of WoW would have rerolled, and Ele Shamans would have seemed like they were doing great. AoE parses skew the overall stats to being unreliable, and since no fights from ToS are being thrown out you need to evaluate it fight by fight.

And if you do that you can clearly see that fire still sucks.

Then why are there fire mages beating frost mages?

[fiestatastic]

Then why are there fire mages beating frost mages?

There aren't. Except on AoE fights, which are what inflate the numbers and skew the overall to mislead.

I want to play fire as much as anyone (or maybe more, I pumped my fire wep up to 58 still hoping it wouldn't be trash, have all fire legendaries, parse very high as fire when I play it on farm), but it's not a viable spec overall for progression.

- - - Updated - - -

Top fire logs, gimmicky and lucky.. So you are telling that frost doesn't require luck with procs right? Of course frost delivers better ST damage but stop trying to say that fire is garbage and pure padding. Seriously people here need to rethink how specs are working. Fire can deliver ACCEPTABLE damage and if you are not in a top 10 guild or w/e just play whatever spec you like and you will be fine.

My guild is not anywhere close to top 10 and fire is not acceptable. Please stop misleading anyone, fire is absolutely not playable with the exception of a couple of bosses for ANY guild that wants to progress and kill mythic bosses. It's not even close to being an acceptable spec. There are 0 guilds that are going to carry a fire mage into mythic progression for single target bosses. You can get by on super casual play where heroic is all the guild is aiming for and they don't mind carrying, but please do not ever again try to convince someone asking for advice that they can just play fire because they enjoy it. Respect their time please.

[Deleted]

My guild is not anywhere close to top 10 and fire is not acceptable. Please stop misleading anyone, fire is absolutely not playable with the exception of a couple of bosses for ANY guild that wants to progress and kill mythic bosses.

Sorry but i call your post bull***. Top guilds that would maximize to the end take the better class, not the better spec. You say your guild lets you choose the class you like, but doesn't let you play the spec you want.

You either go full tryhard and push for top 10, or you have fun. What you saying is just stupid. If you don't like frost, but you play it for better rank, but then you dont go for top rank, what are you doing? Happy to be number 350 world by playing something you don't lie?

You need a shrink.. and a good one.

[Charge me Doctor]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...Mage&spec=Fire

yeah, wierd how every single fight but mistress is basically all belt and bracers. wtf are you even talking about.


talk about not looking at logs..

Well if you don't give a fuck you can cheese DPS with the helm to get l33t parces, you'll definitely do more damage with a helm on mistress especially when stacking CDs for add spawns. But the thing is - it's boss health that matters, not how fast infinite adds die (there is a "soft" point where adds should be dead already, but there is no reason to push it even further - unless your healers are overwhelmed or you can't kill the worms fast enough you shouldn't be bothering with AoE)

[Bamsillo]

My guild is not anywhere close to top 10 and fire is not acceptable. Please stop misleading anyone, fire is absolutely not playable with the exception of a couple of bosses for ANY guild that wants to progress and kill mythic bosses. It's not even close to being an acceptable spec. There are 0 guilds that are going to carry a fire mage into mythic progression for single target bosses. You can get by on super casual play where heroic is all the guild is aiming for and they don't mind carrying, but please do not ever again try to convince someone asking for advice that they can just play fire because they enjoy it. Respect their time please.

I'm just gonna leave this here https://www.youtube.com/user/DyLemmaOG/videos

this mage is ABSOLUTE garbage, is not like the guy is like top 5 DPS in all the fights... look at his damage, is like FIRE IS DEAD...

now, if YOU can't pull those numbers on fire, it doesn't mean that others can't, this guy is the example, is doable... you can play fire good, and do ok.

[gallamann]

Think a lot of people tend to forget vast majority of raiders never touch Mythic. I won't argue one way or the other for Mythic spec because I don't raid mythic.

Fire is fine for Heroic, and I suspect if you look on a guild by guild basis where Heroic clear is the goal you will see fire doing fine compared to their fellow guild raiders.

My spec is never what holds our guild back, people failing mechanics is. Suspect even on Mythic, majority of time it is failing mechanics that wipes guilds more so than reaching enrage timers. Dead DPS is NO DPS and someone dead from mechanics failures is a much greater loss than a 5% difference because you picked fire over frost.

[fiestatastic]

Sorry but i call your post bull***. Top guilds that would maximize to the end take the better class, not the better spec. You say your guild lets you choose the class you like, but doesn't let you play the spec you want.

You either go full tryhard and push for top 10, or you have fun. What you saying is just stupid. If you don't like frost, but you play it for better rank, but then you dont go for top rank, what are you doing? Happy to be number 350 world by playing something you don't lie?

You need a shrink.. and a good one.

Those are a lot of strange assumptions that don't have much (or anything) to do with what I wrote. Not sure where you are coming from with these mistaken assumptions, but I'm particularly perplexed that you would presume anyone would need a shrink for specifics in a video game. Try relaxing? Nothing occurring in WoW is that serious.

[The Archmage]

I am kinda tired of these endless discussions about how a spec is VIABLE (whatever that means) and all other are garbage and leave you unable to progress with in Mythic progression.

Because it's an incorrect statement, for many reasons.

First, you should define what can be considered Mythic Progression. There are plenty of Fire mages that currently raid Mythic and are 6/9, so on what data do we base the fact that Fire is not "viable" in Mythic? Logs? Those are (and always have been) inflated or skewed by many factors. If by Mythic progression we intend world firsts, then the point is invalid, since there are better classes than Mage out there and top guilds always bring the best. It does not really matter if Frost, Fire or Arcane.

If we consider Mythic progression simply picking the choice that nets you more dps, than this discussion is still invalid, since in most cases (not all, but definetly most) sticking with the spec you have better legendaries for (or better artifact, or better relics, or better itemization) will generally net you a better result than playing something you don't like and are unable to properly min/max gameplay wise.

[Celestraza]

Our fire mages are keeping up just fine in mythic.

On single target they are less than 5% behind on dps (easily seen on Goroth mythic) but as soon as adds are involved they do like 25% more than frost.
And adds matter on mythic.

In addition they are a ton more mobile than frost which really helps on something to come like Avatar.
Though imho I find all mage specs to be average-mediocre in ToS compared to some casters and rogues/warriors in particular.

[Zenfoldor]

I am kinda tired of these endless discussions about how a spec is VIABLE (whatever that means) and all other are garbage and leave you unable to progress with in Mythic progression.

Because it's an incorrect statement, for many reasons.

First, you should define what can be considered Mythic Progression. There are plenty of Fire mages that currently raid Mythic and are 6/9, so on what data do we base the fact that Fire is not "viable" in Mythic? Logs? Those are (and always have been) inflated or skewed by many factors. If by Mythic progression we intend world firsts, then the point is invalid, since there are better classes than Mage out there and top guilds always bring the best. It does not really matter if Frost, Fire or Arcane.

If we consider Mythic progression simply picking the choice that nets you more dps, than this discussion is still invalid, since in most cases (not all, but definetly most) sticking with the spec you have better legendaries for (or better artifact, or better relics, or better itemization) will generally net you a better result than playing something you don't like and are unable to properly min/max gameplay wise.

Thank you I agree. Some posts are getting a little out there. It went from which one is absolute best, to overall doesn't matter, to you can't even play this game competitively if you aren't frost, and we hadn't even hit bottom yet.

I'm proud of my 903k @ 915 on normal, lol still no bracers, 3 legos left.

[Shostradamus]

Thank you I agree. Some posts are getting a little out there. It went from which one is absolute best, to overall doesn't matter, to you can't even play this game competitively if you aren't frost, and we hadn't even hit bottom yet.

I'm proud of my 903k @ 915 on normal, lol still no bracers, 3 legos left.

I'm right there with you. 915, no bracers, low 900s on single target fights and I'm 100% proud of that. The spec needs some love, but i refuse to play a spec I don't enjoy. This is a game. No one pays me to play it, no one pays for my subscription but me. I'll play what makes me happy and if a group isn't content with that, it's not a group I want to be around anyway.

[Deleted]

The last few posts have inspired me to give Fire another go. No bracers, but at least I'll have fun. Not in a mythic progression guild so that doesn't hold me back thankfully.

[Deleted]

Those are a lot of strange assumptions that don't have much (or anything) to do with what I wrote. Not sure where you are coming from with these mistaken assumptions, but I'm particularly perplexed that you would presume anyone would need a shrink for specifics in a video game. Try relaxing? Nothing occurring in WoW is that serious.

Sorry, was it not you who said this:

"Please stop misleading anyone, fire is absolutely not playable with the exception of a couple of bosses for ANY guild that wants to progress and kill mythic bosses."

I understand that sometimes a specific class is needed more when it comes to world first race, as the class offers a way to overcome a mechanic by having an unique kit, but your statement is purely based on numbers, while not being backed up by none.

So i kill bosses by playing fire, and you said its not possible. Can you please elaborate yourself?

[Soulwell]

If you look at the bright side fire is a lot less rng dependent than frost is.

[Goblinkong]

Lol. Fire depends on bracer procs. 15% proc is the most rng thing in world.

[DesoPL]

Was going to ask, good this topic happend.

Can guys tell me, what bis fire legendaries are good for normal / heroic raids? I have no intent doing mythic, because don't have people for that.

And general tips about raiding in fire mage. I got enchating so what enchs put?