Is this game's content still based on memorization?

[Ragnarocket]

So, I think maybe looking at some of the fights that currently exist in FF14 would be a big help. Currently we have Susano EX, Lakshimi EX, and the last trial in the Menagerie.

For me personally I thought that the Menagerie fight was very similar to certain fights I've seen in WoW. Very set phases with a good amount of variety and randomness that can happen within it. There are some very set aspects to the fight such as the Tidal Wave about 15 seconds in (it's a FF reference so I personally enjoy that part), the add phase with its set (but not exact) proximity damage attacks, and then the final phase which can go a few different ways for a couple of different reasons. The boss can vary which of his "special attacks" he will use on a set timer and due to the way he breaks the platforms up you have to react to the fight differently each time (at least I have the last 3 times I've fought him). In addition as a tank I have the occasional tank buster ability to deal with where I have to group up with the other tank to not die almost instantly. I haven't noticed that on any set timer but I could be wrong.

Basically, I feel like the fights are getting better and better with FF14. Susano and Lakshimi I hear are not quite as complex on EX mode a lot of people were expecting but I actually see that as an ok thing since they aren't locked or meant to be extremely difficult content. With the antiquated gear the game gives you once you hit 70 you're almost ready to start fighting them.

Basically, anyone else have thoughts based on the current fights that we are seeing in Stormblood that might be pertinent to this discussion?

[Wrecktangle]

Is it? When did that ever happen. Name one boss (if you even can) and I name 10 more where it doesn't happen.

Speaking strictly from a Mythic perspective. Almost every single boss in HM. Almost every single boss in BRF. I will concede that I'm pretty sure it happened a lot less in Legion, but I suspect that could be because I did mostly Heroic raiding then (stopped doing Mythic to play with friends casually). I don't really remember even looking at cast timers for any of the fights honestly except on Guldan, and I do remember storm coming out before flames sometimes despite timers saying otherwise a few times. I also know that from my wotLK raiding days I remember that to be very common as well. Saurfang, LK, Sindy, blood princes, and Putricide had it.

The cloud is basically exactly what you are describing. If it lines up with the boss, you need to adjust your position.

Agreed. I actually cited it as an improvement over previous design either earlier in this thread or in the Megathread. However, let's not kid ourselves. If it lines up, you just crossover the threshold and run to the right. There will be a small safezone. You don't even need to move boss, but it does help.

What's the difference between Kil'jaeden (haven't seen HC yet) and Susano EX in terms of encounter design for example?

I don't know as I am not currently raiding ToS. I am playing FF14 at the moment and I barely have enough time for one MMO let alone two.

Is anyone truely memorizing and counting the seconds in FFXIV? I doubt it (don't make me laugh) or are people just memorizing the abilities and move and do the stuff required to counter that mechanic.

In A3S we absolutely were.

Do you know the lightning pattern of Susano EX? Do you know the pattern of the fight at all? Or do you just know what to do whenever X happens (just as you know what to do @ Elisandre when the Orbs spawn) because that is basically all you need to know to defeat them.

That's my whole point. Knowing what to do is irrelevant in this discussion. The relevant question is that in Elisande the encounter can be different pull to pull. Where you tank her, where her adds spawn, where her rings spawn and the DPS variance on the adds that changes when cooldowns are used to fix mistakes. It all happens organically.

In Susano you always tank at the same spot. You always move him to the same spot, you always stand in the spot for the blade grab and the ball soak, you always have to do x DPS to beat the check (never changes or improves based on skill/gear). etc. The only thing that ever happens dynamically is measuring the angle of the cloud.

What does FF14 add kill-mechanic have to do with RNG-location elements of WoW?
If you don't kill Elisandre adds in time, she'll do the orbs anyway - and you wipe too.
The thing is, adds will always spawn first, Orbs follow. Not the other way around - never the other way around. Because the encounters are designed that way.

I'm saying if you kill the adds slowly in Elisande you can still live, but it's a mad dash to reposition and stay alive. It can change between pull to pull. In FF14 not killing adds is a wipe.

And FF14 bosses aren't free of RNG either, but it's indeed less frequent and it's more or less a 10m dance. A 10m Dance you don't have to remember because you can always just react to the things on screen once you understand what each ability does (just like in WoW)

I do agree with this for the most part, but there mechanics that you need to be aware of a head of time that you can't react to. I gave Tichondirus as an example of hsi plague debuff. I need to know who has it, when he's going to cast it, and position myself as to not cleave others, or infect non-infected. You cannot react to him casting it, you have to react in advance.

So, I think maybe looking at some of the fights that currently exist in FF14 would be a big help. Currently we have Susano EX, Lakshimi EX, and the last trial in the Menagerie.

For me personally I thought that the Menagerie fight was very similar to certain fights I've seen in WoW. Very set phases with a good amount of variety and randomness that can happen within it. There are some very set aspects to the fight such as the Tidal Wave about 15 seconds in (it's a FF reference so I personally enjoy that part), the add phase with its set (but not exact) proximity damage attacks, and then the final phase which can go a few different ways for a couple of different reasons. The boss can vary which of his "special attacks" he will use on a set timer and due to the way he breaks the platforms up you have to react to the fight differently each time (at least I have the last 3 times I've fought him). In addition as a tank I have the occasional tank buster ability to deal with where I have to group up with the other tank to not die almost instantly. I haven't noticed that on any set timer but I could be wrong.

Basically, I feel like the fights are getting better and better with FF14. Susano and Lakshimi I hear are not quite as complex on EX mode a lot of people were expecting but I actually see that as an ok thing since they aren't locked or meant to be extremely difficult content. With the antiquated gear the game gives you once you hit 70 you're almost ready to start fighting them.

Basically, anyone else have thoughts based on the current fights that we are seeing in Stormblood that might be pertinent to this discussion?

The fights are certainly getting better. Even though Susano is super rigid I quite enjoyed learning the fight. I do quite like Shinryu as well and his ahk morn is on a timer, it's just hard to keep track of because its such a long timer.

I covered my analysis and improvements I'd make to Susano to make him a little more organic. For something like Lakshmi I'd have liked a little more add mechanics throughout the fight. Maybe instead of telegraphs on the ground to replenish vril, they could have had periodic add spawns that had to be killed while their shield was up. This way you'd force DPS to react on the fly to both mechanics and DPS pacing and awareness.

[Ragnarocket]

The fights are certainly getting better. Even though Susano is super rigid I quite enjoyed learning the fight. I do quite like Shinryu as well and his ahk morn is on a timer, it's just hard to keep track of because its such a long timer.

I covered my analysis and improvements I'd make to Susano to make him a little more organic. For something like Lakshmi I'd have liked a little more add mechanics throughout the fight. Maybe instead of telegraphs on the ground to replenish vril, they could have had periodic add spawns that had to be killed while their shield was up. This way you'd force DPS to react on the fly to both mechanics and DPS pacing and awareness.

I like your improvements to Lakshimi. I found it a bit too easy honestly the first time I did the fight. But I'm always surprised at how difficult sometimes people make these fights. The mechanic where the members of the party have to move the AoE targeters to where they wouldn't damage people it kills me to watch the insanity that goes on as I'm tanking her. People are running around like chickens with their heads cut off as they try not to hit the other person with a marker while the rest of the group tries not to die to their terrible positioning.

Having the adds drop Vril would be nice, especially since they have adds in that fight anyway. Some varying adds with some possible priorities would have made for a nice break in the fight since I find after her transition it's basically the same old same old.

I'll have to check on the Akh Morn timer next time I go in so I can be better prepared, I haven't gone in with any kind of static group so I've not really been paying as much attention as I would have if I was going in with a set group.

One thing I enjoy that FF14 seems to be moving towards is these more cinematic transitions in their fights. Susano is my favorite personally since as the tank I get to stand there blocking the gigantic sword from my party with my shield. I really hope they continue to provide those "AWESOME!" moments. I realize it adds nothing in terms of complexity but man I love it. Shin's cinematic is amazing as well. FF14 definitely knows how to make the fights feel grandiose and memorable. The music swells at all the right places and just makes you feel great!

[RohanV]

I think it's a difference of degree. Some WoW fights are a bit more fluid, but many others are not. For example, Gul'dan is extremely rigid with timers and such. It's hard for me to agree that WoW fights are more random when I literally have a DBM timer counting down "5, 4, 3, 2, 1" in my ear.

WoW fights are a bit more complex, but allows addons to combat that complexity.

Also, I don't think Elisande is a good example, it seems very rigid to me. Where Ellie teleports to is roughly the same as where the balls of fire spawn on Final Steps Nithogg. It doesn't change the fight in any meaningful manner.

I do think WoW fights use the environment more (including created environmental effects) while FFXIV focuses more on the boss and any adds.

[Nikkaszal]

Oh look, another "I play WoW so I have to shit on every other mmo(rpg)" thread.

You haven't actually read the thread have you. There's good discussion going either way

Regarding above posters on this page - Lakshmi Ex is the perfect example of a memorisation fight so far in SB. The cross-shaped AoEs always point in the same direction, so you move to the same spots each time. Ditto with the Vrill telegraphs. Since the timer is so rigid, after 5 kills I knew exactly where I was going to be standing for every second of the fight.

What would have been more "organic" would be to have the cross telegraphs point in random directions each time. So instead of just having the relevant raid members box the boss every single time, everyone would need to make a decision on the fly about where to dump it as well as where would be safe for the rest of the raid. As it is now, this mechanic is "difficult" the first time you do it, then you know where the safe spots are for every single pull after that, forever. It ceases to become dangerous and instead becomes rote, because no-one has to think about it.

Same with the Vrill. First you get the zigzags, then you get the circle. Every single time. And you know that the circle comes right before the suck-in every single time. It's no longer a fight mechanic, it's now just a thing that happens which no-one experienced is ever going to muck up ever again.

The Confuse? Again a non-issue. People are pre-arranged who they pair with and are in place before it happens. You whap at each other for a couple seconds, then the healers top everyone off and you go back to it. There's no thought involved in it whatsoever, and really is nothing more than an annoyance as you take your hands off the keys for 5 sec.

Now compare that to Mythic Nythendra. Also had a Mind Control mechanic, and people would always stack in the same spot to be busted out, BUT it had measure of decision making involved. You didn't just let it happen passively, you had to make calls for people to push their stacks at varying rates depending on how the fight played out so you could effectively stagger and deal with it (otherwise you just ended up with 80% of the raid MCd at once).

Both of these were first bosses of an expac - and both quite easy - but only one requires thought at all.

[IndoX]

I do agree that WoW raid fights seem more organic and fluid compared to FFXIV - I've done high end raiding on both. To me, it comes down to two things: raid size and combat. With a 2.5gcd the combat is very rigid and WoW is more fast paced for sure. When your raid size is 8 and you only have 2 healers and tanks it easy for mechanics to become monotonous because they're targeted by them every single time. With 20man raiding you're not guaranteed to be targeted by X mechanic 30 seconds into the fight every single pull.

[Advent]

What was that one fight in FFXIV where you had to stand on the platform at a very specific distance so as to get knocked almost off the platform? I hate mechanics like that because it lacks transparency. Nothing in the fight gives you an idea of how to combat it, as if it's thrown in as a Fuck You to simulate difficulty and memorization. But it isn't an example of either, it's just convoluted BS because they can't design an encounter around fair, granular mechanics. At the same time, wtf was Thordan EX? I remember wanting to do the fight, watching a video that had something like 15 different mechanics to memorize. Just...why? Why not simply have 5-6 that are of varying severity and lethality so you're not fumbling with trying to remember what ability does what?

Then you have what you guys call "Net Code". (I had no idea what the term was prior to reading this) That's a whole other issue, like why in the world don't mobs snap to me when I taunt them? Why do they wait 2 seconds to register, then move so slowly to me that by the time they get halfway, whatever AoE the dps are doing pulls them back anyway? Just...aggravating. And my FC keeps telling me to tank to avoid queues. It's stuff like that which annoys me to no end, and one of the many reasons I refuse to tank again in this game.

[Nikkaszal]

What was that one fight in FFXIV where you had to stand on the platform at a very specific distance so as to get knocked almost off the platform? I hate mechanics like that because it lacks transparency. Nothing in the fight gives you an idea of how to combat it, as if it's thrown in as a Fuck You to simulate difficulty and memorization. But it isn't an example of either, it's just convoluted BS because they can't design an encounter around fair, granular mechanics. At the same time, wtf was Thordan EX? I remember wanting to do the fight, watching a video that had something like 15 different mechanics to memorize. Just...why? Why not simply have 5-6 that are of varying severity and lethality so you're not fumbling with trying to remember what ability does what?

Then you have what you guys call "Net Code". (I had no idea what the term was prior to reading this) That's a whole other issue, like why in the world don't mobs snap to me when I taunt them? Why do they wait 2 seconds to register, then move so slowly to me that by the time they get halfway, whatever AoE the dps are doing pulls them back anyway? Just...aggravating. And my FC keeps telling me to tank to avoid queues. It's stuff like that which annoys me to no end, and one of the many reasons I refuse to tank again in this game.

1) You're thinking of Sophia EX. Where you had to stand in a roughly exact spot depending on how the platform was gonna tip

2) Thordan EX actually came up in my FC chat this week. Someone said "I don't actually remember how to do this fight" and the response was "That's the dirty secret - nobody does". Its the pinnacle example of this thread - video guides for Thordan EX go for 10 minutes because that's how long it takes to say what ability happens when, and where your raid needs to be to avoid them.

3) Mobs that are taunted don't have the 3sec guaranteed aggro, which is why they bounce. They also put you at EXACTLY the top of the threat table, so whoever had threat is still riding your arse and will pull back unless you have a high-threat ability already prepped. The delay is also because everything in this game is animation locked, and if a mob has a 1.5sec swing or ability animation then it won't register that you've taunted it until it has completed that animation and is ready to start a new one.

[Eleccybubb]

Oh look, another "I play WoW so I have to shit on every other mmo(rpg)" thread.

Comparing fights between games is that? Guess you didn't read the entire thread then.

[Wrecktangle]

You haven't actually read the thread have you. There's good discussion going either way

Regarding above posters on this page - Lakshmi Ex is the perfect example of a memorisation fight so far in SB. The cross-shaped AoEs always point in the same direction, so you move to the same spots each time. Ditto with the Vrill telegraphs. Since the timer is so rigid, after 5 kills I knew exactly where I was going to be standing for every second of the fight.

What would have been more "organic" would be to have the cross telegraphs point in random directions each time. So instead of just having the relevant raid members box the boss every single time, everyone would need to make a decision on the fly about where to dump it as well as where would be safe for the rest of the raid. As it is now, this mechanic is "difficult" the first time you do it, then you know where the safe spots are for every single pull after that, forever. It ceases to become dangerous and instead becomes rote, because no-one has to think about it.

Same with the Vrill. First you get the zigzags, then you get the circle. Every single time. And you know that the circle comes right before the suck-in every single time. It's no longer a fight mechanic, it's now just a thing that happens which no-one experienced is ever going to muck up ever again.

The Confuse? Again a non-issue. People are pre-arranged who they pair with and are in place before it happens. You whap at each other for a couple seconds, then the healers top everyone off and you go back to it. There's no thought involved in it whatsoever, and really is nothing more than an annoyance as you take your hands off the keys for 5 sec.

Now compare that to Mythic Nythendra. Also had a Mind Control mechanic, and people would always stack in the same spot to be busted out, BUT it had measure of decision making involved. You didn't just let it happen passively, you had to make calls for people to push their stacks at varying rates depending on how the fight played out so you could effectively stagger and deal with it (otherwise you just ended up with 80% of the raid MCd at once).

Both of these were first bosses of an expac - and both quite easy - but only one requires thought at all.

Just go back and report his post for shitposting and being off topic. That guy is a fanatic white knight and honestly needs to either contribute or stay out. This isn't his first time doing it either.

Agreed with everything you said. Ironically Mythic Nyth was one of my favorite fights. It really is a perfect example of an organic fluid fight. RIP Wrecktangle always only one to get MC'd first MC because he always got Rot and just bubbled it to maximize Crusade uptime. Totally worth it though.

As far as your lakshmi suggestions go I have to agree with all of them as viable alternatives to the existing design.

What was that one fight in FFXIV where you had to stand on the platform at a very specific distance so as to get knocked almost off the platform? I hate mechanics like that because it lacks transparency. Nothing in the fight gives you an idea of how to combat it, as if it's thrown in as a Fuck You to simulate difficulty and memorization. But it isn't an example of either, it's just convoluted BS because they can't design an encounter around fair, granular mechanics. At the same time, wtf was Thordan EX? I remember wanting to do the fight, watching a video that had something like 15 different mechanics to memorize. Just...why? Why not simply have 5-6 that are of varying severity and lethality so you're not fumbling with trying to remember what ability does what?

Then you have what you guys call "Net Code". (I had no idea what the term was prior to reading this) That's a whole other issue, like why in the world don't mobs snap to me when I taunt them? Why do they wait 2 seconds to register, then move so slowly to me that by the time they get halfway, whatever AoE the dps are doing pulls them back anyway? Just...aggravating. And my FC keeps telling me to tank to avoid queues. It's stuff like that which annoys me to no end, and one of the many reasons I refuse to tank again in this game.

To be fair I quite like unintuitive mechanics sometimes. I think it's ok to not understand a mechanic right away and have to figure it out.

I do have to agree with "mechanic overload" and the netcode as huge pain points though.

Comparing fights between games is that? Guess you didn't read the entire thread then.

Just report his futile attempt at a shitpost. Its non-constructive and off topic and should be removed.

[Katchii]

Both games fights feel relatively similar to me. I see the arguments for both games from folks who have spent a lot of time getting into the nitty gritty of each games most difficult content, and completely understand the arguments and the differences in the game....but for someone like me those differences don't really amount to a different experience. Fluid and organic fight vs scripted fight both equal a fight with mechanics I have to react to as they happen.

The one argument I felt clicked with me is that yes, WoW has more fluid and organic fights, but the mechanics all generally have a "do X to succeed" so once you know the mechanic you understand exactly what to do when it happens. That's the exact same thing in FFXIV, the fact that WoW has more organic timers doesn't really change that "When X happens do Y." I don't spend any significant amount of time in either games high end content, so I'm not speaking as a high end raider or Extreme Primal farmer, so for someone from that perspective the fights feel the same. I can understand how from the perspective of someone who spends a significant amount of time in either or both, how the subtle differences can become much more pronounced.

[Jayman29]

I stopped playing FFXIV at the start of HW. I started playing it because I watched videos of titan extreme and was excited to see such a neat boss. The mechanics and ideas looked so cool. The reason I find this funny is because I had played WoW since the end of vanilla, barely making it to 60 before the opening of BC, logging out in front of the dark portal the night before. Then leaving wow for a huge break at the launch of Cata.

Yet, even with all my WoW experience I found myself excited when I saw primals. Instant wipe mechanics are not always super prevalent in WoW so maybe that is why I got so happy. I enjoyed those fights in FFXIV, lots of the bosses are super difficult, but as Virtua has stated, they are not as fine tuned or well made. And the content comes out slowly. I think the lack of content really was what made me quit at the beginning of Alexanders launch. I had been grinding neverreap and one other dungeons for two weeks. Gearing up shouldn't be based on two dungeons and endlessly grinding them.

To bring this back around, I started looking at the Susanoo fight and again I got that feeling to play again. I just recently did heroic Desolate Host and it has really fun mechanics and probably better than any FFXIV fight can hope to get, but still...something about the fights!!!!

Both of pros and cons to me.
I will say this though, I can see how players would love either games fights.
It is all about what makes you happy in a fight.

[The Casualty]

I REALLY liked Thordan Ex. By the time you got there when it was new content, almost none (I think it might have been the first time the stack in marker appeared) of the individual mechanics were new, but they were used in great ways to make you have to react to them while doing other things, or even a few at a time, and no role was left out. That and nothing there - aside from failing two fairly lax DPS checks - were instawipe.
Everything was immediately apparent what was going to happen, the trick was finding the best way to execute the mechanic to minimize damage to the party and/or not preventing other people from performing their mechanics.

[Dracian]

We will see how things shake out in Omega, but FFXIV has always had a design setup in which Primal fights are heavily scripted and require a sort of "dance" to complete. Once you memorize that pattern you can pretty much do the fight.

Raid bosses have been a little more flexible in this regard. They still have mechanics to memorize, but they're closer in design to WoW raids vs. the heavily scripted primals.

[Ragnarocket]

How are people feeling about the Omega fights in this regard?

I definitely feel like O1 is a bit of a dance. Especially on the "Primal Elements" part or whatever it's called. The other 3 have some good chaos I felt.

[Wrecktangle]

How are people feeling about the Omega fights in this regard?

I definitely feel like O1 is a bit of a dance. Especially on the "Primal Elements" part or whatever it's called. The other 3 have some good chaos I felt.

First boss was boring. we 1 shot it with 7/8 people blind (last guy was always DF so he may have been blind, no idea). Second boss was also boring, same deal one shot it with the exact same party +1 DF healer. Third boss same deal 1 shot it blind. There was a bit of confusion on my part. I didn't realize those cubes had icons on it, but I figured it out really quick after that.

I had gf aggro at this point, but we went into DS 4.0 and got it to like 37% 1st pull. I didn't realize we had an actual tank swap mechanic (1-3 didn't, so why would 4th). I had to leave that party since I ran out of time, but we would likely have 2 shot it since people figured out the knockback and empowered stuff pretty quick.

I joined again this morning with a pug in DF that we wiped once and had to leave because our 2nd healer never got put in the instance? He kept saying jajajaja something about a car, so we disbanded.

Requeued and 1 shot it with DF pug. Very easy fight. As far as whether the mechanics feel organic or not I didn't see anything. Looked pretty predictable, but I could be a bit inexperienced to tell considering I've only done each fight twice, but they felt the same each time.

I'm curious how savage will be.

[Ragnarocket]

First boss was boring. we 1 shot it with 7/8 people blind (last guy was always DF so he may have been blind, no idea). Second boss was also boring, same deal one shot it with the exact same party +1 DF healer. Third boss same deal 1 shot it blind. There was a bit of confusion on my part. I didn't realize those cubes had icons on it, but I figured it out really quick after that.

I had gf aggro at this point, but we went into DS 4.0 and got it to like 37% 1st pull. I didn't realize we had an actual tank swap mechanic (1-3 didn't, so why would 4th). I had to leave that party since I ran out of time, but we would likely have 2 shot it since people figured out the knockback and empowered stuff pretty quick.

I joined again this morning with a pug in DF that we wiped once and had to leave because our 2nd healer never got put in the instance? He kept saying jajajaja something about a car, so we disbanded.

Requeued and 1 shot it with DF pug. Very easy fight. As far as whether the mechanics feel organic or not I didn't see anything. Looked pretty predictable, but I could be a bit inexperienced to tell considering I've only done each fight twice, but they felt the same each time.

I'm curious how savage will be.

The mechanics didn't feel as predictable as Lakshimi EX at least....which at this point I've done so many times I could probably keep my eyes closed while tanking her. About the only Omega fight I felt was that predictable was the first one. It felt like he would always do the same thing at the same times. At least with Omega 2 I needed to keep an eye out for which tentacle was a safe zone. With Omega 3 I think I just enjoy the sheer chaos of that fight...but she also throws out her Elemental attacks at odd occasions. The Mindjack mechanic + the group up mechanic was a nice touch of combining some things together I thought as well.

Omega 4 feels the most like a boss fight from WoW has to me in a while. He has some abilities that you understand and he can empower them up to do different things. The Black Holes spawn in random locations which means you maneuver him around the platform as needed and the constant damage means that as a healer you're staying busy which is better than "No damage, no damage, TANKBUSTER HEAL, no damage, light AoE...etc". I think the biggest thing I noticed as I was doing Omega (2-4) is how much you depended on your healers really doing their job. We had DPS just dying to light constant damage as the heals were either doing damage (seriously your first priority is healing dude) or just trying to keep up. As a Paladin I was spot healing just trying to keep party members alive at times.

I too think that Savage will be interesting. I think Omega 1 could be improved upon a lot...or they could just make it a more complicated dance we'll see what they decide on. Omega 2 could become quite interesting. I think taking 100Gs off of the boss and creating some "Anti-Grav" zones would be a good way of making not only the act of levitating be on the player but also getting back to the ground as well as creating some more required movement. We'll see where they take it. Omega 3...I dunno that fight is so weird and different I haven't got a clue but I'm sure it'll be hilarious. Omega 4 will be quite interesting I think. Some of those mechanics could be boosted to an insane level really.

[toomes211]

After playing wow for 10-12 years, and FF14 for 5 years, there's not a lot of functional difference to how they approach fight design really, aside from WoW can often be more creative, I feel like.

But somehow FF14 manages to feel more scripted and predictable, too. Everything always happens in the exact same order at the exact same time in the exact same way every time you do a fight. It can get to feel kind of grindy and depressing on progression. I'm not saying this is much different than wow, but it certainly feels much different to me.

[Kazgrel]

How are people feeling about the Omega fights in this regard?

I definitely feel like O1 is a bit of a dance. Especially on the "Primal Elements" part or whatever it's called. The other 3 have some good chaos I felt.

Only did the first two so far (crafting eating up a bunch of time plus the maintenance last night removed the time I would've done the last 2). First one is the typical movement pattern fight. Second one was kinda nifty having the button to hit for the gravity device, but it reached a point where the entire platform would be covered and I wasn't aware that I had to time the button right as the upper aoes disappeared, because I almost always have my camera up at a bird's eye view over the shoulder, not down to where I could see the upper/lower split.

[blackpink]

It's been mentioned before but a big bonus for me raiding in this game is because of how much more epic the bosses feel to me compared to wow. But that also may be because I'm a hugeeeee ff fan. If you don't really care about ff you prob wouldn't really enjoy raiding here. I mean look at the current raid that's out....straight out of ff5

edit: to the people claiming the mechanics in omega are boring or easy I have to ask...why are you still raiding? It really just sounds like you guys are bored of raiding tbh. It's how I felt about wow for awhile before I finally quit, but this game's raids are very enjoyable for me.