SPOILERS: Did Sylvanas manipulate Vol'jin's handover of power?

[mizeri]

Varimathas seems to be extremely bad at this one.

more proof that you cant trust a dreadlord?

[Arrashi]

more proof that you cant trust a dreadlord?

But what if he is so incompetent he actually made mistake and tells the truth ?

[Nero Duskwind]

Varimathas seems to be extremely bad at this one.

Hence the flayed flesh and overall tortured appearance. He's been the most consistent failure of all the Nathrezim. Balnazzar would be a close second.

[McFuu]

I like to think that Sylvanas forgot about Varimathras after the Battle for Undercity, and his "So, she found me at last" comment is just him elevating his own self-importance. Her response to hearing about him being on Argus would probably be something like "Oh, he was still around? Cool." and then forget about him again.




That was to fool Sylvanas into thinking Varimathras was utterly loyal to her.

I'm not entirely sure where that tidbit came from. It's really hard to gauge Varimathras, even the whole Wrathgate/Undercity seemed cobbled together, not the culmination of a 20 year plan. I think he's was loyal to Sylvanas until he saw an opportunity not to be ( the new plague / Puttress.)

Could be bad writing too.

[Jokubas]

It always seemed extremely suspicious that Sylvanas said she would not follow a troll as a leader, and then next time we're back on Azeroth, Vol'jin not only conveniently dies, but promotes her in his place. Once we watched it play out, though, it seemed on the up and up.

If Varimathras is right, maybe it wasn't after all. Vol'jin only had the whispers of the loa to go by, and we don't know that much about them or his powers. As for Varimathras being a deceiver, it doesn't much matter at the moment. It's not like he gave us enough fake evidence to act on this. In other words, we have to wait and see if he's right. If he's wrong, then his deception was pointless. If he's right, then it wasn't a deception.

[Life-Binder]

well tbh Sylvanas didnt have anything to do with his death either way (unless you think she had a banshee possess that stabby demon)


and rigging Loa spirits is no worse then what goes in US elections

[McFuu]

It always seemed extremely suspicious that Sylvanas said she would not follow a troll as a leader, and then next time we're back on Azeroth, Vol'jin not only conveniently dies, but promotes her in his place. Once we watched it play out, though, it seemed on the up and up.

If Varimathras is right, maybe it wasn't after all. Vol'jin only had the whispers of the loa to go by, and we don't know that much about them or his powers. As for Varimathras being a deceiver, it doesn't much matter at the moment. It's not like he gave us enough fake evidence to act on this. In other words, we have to wait and see if he's right. If he's wrong, then his deception was pointless. If he's right, then it wasn't a deception.

Sylvanas distrust of trolls goes back to her past life as Ranger General. She's watched more elves die from trolls than likely the scourge.

[Aquamonkey]

Sylvanas distrust of trolls goes back to her past life as Ranger General. She's watched more elves die from trolls than likely the scourge.

...the Scourge exterminated 90% of her race. She had a front-row seat as a banshee.

[omeomorfismo]

Does that makes sense after the above statements? I thought this was a segment of lines in sequence is it not? He is clearly talking about Sylvanas.

What's funny is that it really is true. The devotion horde players have to her despite her sins is quite amazing. She will betray everyone, its just a matter of when.

sins? i miss something?
i remember to only kill light-zealots that try to slaughter undeads in all lordaeron. i never went to the other cape of the continent to feed a dumb army meanwhile my country starve. i was never throwed in a suicide mission for the sake of zealotry. this is varian.
really, kill enemies isnt a sin, its war.
then damn, even that plague whine, the paladins where "created" for the same reason(slain original death knight), however nobody calls paladins evil abominations, when they are basically living weapon of mass destruction and pain for undeads. but for some reason a chemical weapon is bad...
oh, and after the nathanos novel we even know that there are some paladins that continue to hunt forsaken and still sylvanas doesnt bombed the argent dawn.

sins...

[Sumaku13]

Or maybe an Old God did it for her because the Void Lords wanted her in charge? We need an independent counsel!

- - - Updated - - -

Void Lords meddling in Horde elections!

Hmm..

Wouldn't be the first time a creature of the void 'manipulated' a Windrunner sister. See: Alleria's interaction with the void.

[Sigxy]

Varimathas seems to be extremely bad at this one.

It seems to be a common thing for Dreadlords wanting to be on the 'winning side'. I guess Lothraxion is the best on that, now!

[McFuu]

Hmm..

Wouldn't be the first time a creature of the void 'manipulated' a Windrunner sister. See: Alleria's interaction with the void.

I think they are seeing that up as basically a void hunter, she's in control, and taps into the void creatures power. Which sounds really boring if that's a future class.

[Count Zero]

why y'all trusting dreadlords

[Deleted]

I think it's more that he knows she is on a dark path and powerful beings on Azeroth walking down a dark path always have the attention of an Old God. I don't think she actually works for them, but they are secretly leading her steps. Or she thinks she is working _with_ them, to her own ends.
Varimathras saying something like that is supposed to sow dissent and suspicion, maybe even anger Sylvanas, because she herself will feel like she's being wrongly accused, if anyone actually dares accuse her of that (to her face, I mean).

And lastly, I also think, the 'wispers' from the spirits that Vol'jin heard may have been Old God wispers. I do not think, however that Sylvanas orchestrated that. As much as it may be of use to her to now be warchief, she did seem surprised to me.
Though those wispers may also have been legit loa-wispers, to give Sylvanas something to give her pause, maybe, before she continues on a dark path.

[Maxilian]

I think they are seeing that up as basically a void hunter, she's in control, and taps into the void creatures power. Which sounds really boring if that's a future class.

Hey, if we get a Dark Ranger, it will need some 3 different talent groups :P

[Deleted]

sins? i miss something?
i remember to only kill light-zealots that try to slaughter undeads in all lordaeron. i never went to the other cape of the continent to feed a dumb army meanwhile my country starve. i was never throwed in a suicide mission for the sake of zealotry. this is varian.
really, kill enemies isnt a sin, its war.
then damn, even that plague whine, the paladins where "created" for the same reason(slain original death knight), however nobody calls paladins evil abominations, when they are basically living weapon of mass destruction and pain for undeads. but for some reason a chemical weapon is bad...
oh, and after the nathanos novel we even know that there are some paladins that continue to hunt forsaken and still sylvanas doesnt bombed the argent dawn.

sins...

See, you are so far off into skewed that you are saying Paladins are evil. When the only blood knights are actually part of the horde. xD

The onslaught was not affiliated with the alliance. Still, unprovoked, Sylvanas and their forsaken started a war with Gilneans in their lands and tried to exterminate them. And before you say Garrosh told her to do it... Gilneas wasn't part of the Alliance and he definitly did not aprove of the plague. This is all fine from your pov.
Do tell me wich wars Varian started. From where i stood, he even spared the horde after the siege. Is this a bad guy?

Yes, sins. Big ones. Zealotry is actually a very fitting word you brought up.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The onslaught was not affiliated with the alliance. Still, unprovoked, Sylvanas and their forsaken started a war with Gilneans in their lands and tried to exterminate them. And before you say Garrosh told her to do it.

Garrosh started that battle, how many times do you have to be reminded of this? Also he only cared about the plague because the wanted the Forsaken gone. He gave no shits about it otherwise.

Do tell me wich wars Varian started. From where i stood, he even spared the horde after the siege. Is this a bad guy?

he started the war that went on from Cata till MoP..... Or do you honestly forget his Undercity moment?

[Jastall]

Varimathras is just about the least reliable character on this subject short of Sylvanas herself.

[yetgdhfgh]

Why are we taking that manipulative demons word as gospel? What has he ever done to gain our trust? We know his kind likes to dress up as humans and manipulate the shit out of us ALA Scarlet Crusade.

Apart from Greymane he has the biggest bone to pick with her in the whole galaxy!!

Now sure i understand that blizz wouldnt have made him say that unless it meant something but then we already know whats what. We already know Sylvanas goals we know she wants imortality and as i have argued unless that doesnt effect the day to day lives of the Horde the Horde couldnt give a fuck cause we know she has been up to that shit for years.

Vol'jin was not tricked imo

[Shampro]

You should trust more what the Old God creatures say as per they are usually riddles but not intentionally lies, when the Dreadlords do the complete opposite.

Yes, thats right, thats how scummy Dreadlords are, Old God stuff is more trustworthy than those guys.