[Spoilers] 7.3 Blood elf discussion.

[Mehrunes]

Seems you forgot Alleria is pretty and gorgeous beauty with natural green eyes, Gruul's one ugly mofo. Ugly mofos do not get statues.

Explain the numerous statutes of Varian then :3

HOW DARE THEY DEFEND THEIR LANDS. Perish the thought!

When you're finished chocking on all that straw, try to point out the specific part of my post which you think talked about them being able or unable to defend their lands. Once you're done chasing things that don't exist, try to comprehend that what I did address was your shitpost in which you flailed about "muh innocents". And since you obviously need explanation so specific that it can only be called spoon-feeding, militia members aren't "innocent". They are enemy combatants.

Undeath twists the soul, more news at 11.

Totes.

???

She had no real argument for what she was doing.

She wasn't making an argument, she was mocking Garrosh. This is below desperate.

[Zulkhan]

Sylvanas also killed Garithos and his men despite having a deal with them

Remind me a moment the deal in question.

[pateuvasiliu]

try to comprehend that what I did address was your shitpost in which you flailed about "muh innocents". And since you obviously need explanation so specific that it can only be called spoon-feeding, militia members aren't "innocent". They are enemy combatants.

People that are simply trying to defend their homes are innocent.

She wasn't making an argument, she was mocking Garrosh.

I hope you realise mocking Garrosh doesn't change the fact that she's Arthas, except Horde aligned.

How is she different, exactly?

Totes.

What's that supposed to mean? Are you trying to say being raised into undeath isn't a horrible experience?

Dude Sylvanas/The Forsaken have been lamenting how they are cursed and ''slaves to this torment'' for years and then they do the same thing to others. Fuck outta' here.

- - - Updated - - -

Remind me a moment the deal in question.

She offered to help Garithos and his men reclaim their lands in exchange for their assistance in defeating the final dreadlord, Balnazzar, who remained in control of Lordaeron's Capital City. Garithos accepted the banshee's terms - but she had no intention of keeping her word.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I hope you realise mocking Garrosh doesn't change the fact that she's Arthas, except Horde aligned.

How is she different, exactly?

This argument, in which answers never succeed in sticking to the people who ask this question's memory.

[Zulkhan]

I hope you realise mocking Garrosh doesn't change the fact that she's Arthas, except Horde aligned.

How is she different, exactly?

Garrosh is Arthas. Sylvanas bears a few similarities, I admit that, but overall their personalities aren't really that similar.

She offered to help Garithos and his men reclaim their lands in exchange for their assistance in defeating the final dreadlord, Balnazzar, who remained in control of Lordaeron's Capital City. Garithos accepted the banshee's terms - but she had no intention of keeping her word.

You forgot the most important part: Garithos wanted Sylvanas and the Forsaken out of Lordaeron once everything was done.

No sane person would have accepted such a stupidly disadvantageous deal without a back up plan. Garithos has been foolish enough to believe he could have got away with it.

Sylvanas may have been an asshole in slaughtering all of Garithos' men but Garithos' own arrogance and stupidity doomed them just as much.

Explain the numerous statutes of Varian then :3

When you're king special privileges are in order.

[pateuvasiliu]

Sylvanas bears a few similarities, I admit that, but overall their personalities aren't really that similar.v

She curses people with undeath and attempted to enslave the Val'kyr. She's the same. She just serves the Horde.

Sylvanas may have been an asshole in slaughtering all of Garithos' men but Garithos' own arrogance and stupidity doomed them just as much

Arthas may have been an asshole in slaughtering all of Quel'thalas but Quel'thalas' own arrogance and refusal to let him use the Sunwell doomed them just as much.

[Friendlyimmolation]

She curses people with undeath and attempted to enslave the Val'kyr. She's the same. She just serves the Horde.

what a dishonest and sweeping generalization. Not surprised.

Arthas may have been an asshole in slaughtering all of Quel'thalas but Quel'thalas' own arrogance and refusal to let him use the Sunwell doomed them just as much.

What a simply awful attempt at making a comparsion.

[Mehrunes]

Well she's not "pro-Sons of Lothar" as she's counted among their roster. Khadgar, too, was always more willing to extend an olive branch and at least try to understand his previous opponents (given the relative quickness of him striking up a friendship with Garona). As for her loyalty to Quel'thalas, didn't she essentially disobey her king to prove a point by helping the Alliance in WC2 despite Anasterian not believing the Horde threat was a legitimate reason to call in the debt he owed to the Arathi? Not to say she's not loyal to Quel'thalas, but this kind of stands in contrast to your portrayal of her loyalties.

By that logic she's not pro-Alliance either. Glad we sorted that out. And she went with her squad because she thought it would be the best way to prevent further attacks against her homeland and make it safe. And to kill some Orcs. Why on earth are you asking basic questions about the story of Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal?

I don't recall Gruul ever being considered a hero of the Alliance and a marquee Alliance in WC2: TD, I think I'll have to go back and re-play it. I don't recall Gruul even being a character, and that seems like a huge lore concern. I do remember Alleria being an Alliance hero, but maybe that's a fever dream brought on by following odd chains of logic laced with directionless sarcasm too often.

Once again you're conflating who the Alliance considers to be their hero and what said heroes think (or at least thought before Legion) about the Alliance. This is hopeless. And the part in bold is worse than hopeless. I outright spelled out the purpose of my comparison.

How is:

They teamed up with Alliance for their own reasons, to achieve their own goals.

not clear enough? Because I'm struggling to make it clearer. Directionless sarcasm indeed. If there was any directionless sarcasm here it's the nonsense about you having a fever you just wounded the concept of sarcasm with.

So when the city was being rebuilt at the end of the Second War, the survivors and returning refugees of that war along with their leaders decide to erect immense stone statues of who they view as heroes of said war - and that means absolutely nothing? Sounds reasonable.

The statues are quite clearly of the members of Sons of Lothar specifically. Not heroes of the Second War in general. Probably for their deemed sacrifice, since at the time they were built it was thought they got stranded on Draenor for good when they closed the Dark Portal. Since you like to pretend being a wall, I'll play and throw the fact that Alleria's reasons for joining Sons of Lothar had nothing to do with Alliance at you again. Maybe it'll stick this time.

And in that retelling she would probably put more of a spotlight on the Alliance's failure to stop or respond to Arthas, their failures to protect Quel'thalas, etc. etc. Partisanship doesn't require complete dishonesty, as I'm sure you're well aware - it is less about upfront deceit and more about the portrayal of the truth while omitting certain factors (like, for example, Arthas the Death Knight operating at the behest of an Orcish spirit in the form of Ner'zhul). Details that weren't known then but are certainly known now - and a detail that might color Alleria's take on the Horde. That's just one example of how the above narrative could be spun to put a favorable light on the current Horde and a negative one on the Alliance. Vereesa, of course, is going to do much the same except tilted to the Alliance - excusing their many mistakes and missteps while demonizing the Horde and ensuring the the Old/New Horde split is minimized. You and I both know how the game is played.

Point out when Sylvanas has ever blamed the Alliance for Arthas. At best, she blamed humans for him, and even that tangent hasn't been brought up in years (both in-game and OOG). And even then, it had nothing to do with them not helping out, but simply humankind "spawning" Arthas. She didn't even make any remarks about them impeding the war against the Lich King when Varian started his war. Also, what does Ner'zhul being formerly an Orc have to do with anything? He stopped giving a fuck about Orcs even before Kil'jaeden captured him. He was only the Lich King afterwards. And Arthas acted on his own volition even as a Death Knight. His decision to wipe out Blood Elves was his and his alone. Because Sylvanas irritated him.

[Zulkhan]

She curses people with undeath and attempted to enslave the Val'kyr. She's the same. She just serves the Horde.

Sylvanas' goals have always been rather relatable, even if pursued with ruthlessness and questionable methods. Arthas on the other hand wanted to become the king of everything and turn every living being of Azeroth (and possibly even more if he could have made it through space) into an unwilling servant of his.

I see a difference or two there but maybe is just me.

Arthas may have been an asshole in slaughtering all of Quel'thalas but Quel'thalas' own arrogance and refusal to let him use the Sunwell doomed them just as much.

If that was supposed to be an analogy, I don't even know where to start to point out how terrible it is.

[Mehrunes]

People that are simply trying to defend their homes are innocent.

And enemy combatants are enemy combatants. Also, there's a possibility that the humans started this conflict.

I hope you realise mocking Garrosh doesn't change the fact that she's Arthas, except Horde aligned.

How is she different, exactly?

Her mocking Garrosh kinda indicates she didn't actually address the point of the differences between her and the Lich King in any significant manner. And I dunno, maybe she doesn't try to kill all life. Or she doesn't mentally enslave her subjects. Is using your own eyes already a challenge to you?

What's that supposed to mean? Are you trying to say being raised into undeath isn't a horrible experience?

Dude Sylvanas/The Forsaken have been lamenting how they are cursed and ''slaves to this torment'' for years and then they do the same thing to others. Fuck outta' here.

It's almost as if there was quite a big difference between how old Forsaken became undead and new Forsaken became undead. Also, look at all this substantiation of undeath twisting souls you just offered.

[pateuvasiliu]

what a dishonest and sweeping generalization. Not surprised.

Can you tell me how Sylvanas is different from Arthas?

And I dunno, maybe she doesn't try to kill all life. Or she doesn't mentally enslave her subjects. Is using your own eyes already a challenge to you?

No she just uses freshly turned undead in their rabid state to make them kill their own families. She's such a nice person.



Arthas had plenty people that followed him willingly. The higher tiered Scourge were mostly free willed, it's the cannonfodder that were mindless.

And fucking please, if she had the means she'd do it. She just isn't strong enough to do it. We both know she was in the Horde due to necessity. Once you kill and raise farmers it's pretty clear you aren't going to stop. What, you think she wouldn't destroy and raise Stormwind if she had the chance? Lul.

It's almost as if there was quite a big difference between how old Forsaken became undead and new Forsaken became undead.

Oh yeah I'm sure the humans killed and raised to fight for the ones that killed them are very happy that they were raised by Val'kyr and not by necromancers.

Sylvanas should clearly be the figurehead of UNICEF.

[Mehrunes]

No she just uses freshly turned undead in their rabid state to make them kill their own families. She's such a nice person.

What's with your fascination with straw? Is it a fetish? And what is the issue with your comprehension that prevents you from realizing that she doesn't have to be good to be different than the Lich King and that her not being good does not make the differences not-differences?

And fucking please, if she had the means she'd do it. She just isn't strong enough to do it. We both know she was in the Horde due to necessity.

Why? Because you say so?

Oh yeah I'm sure the humans killed and raised to fight for the ones that killed them are very happy that they were raised by Val'kyr and not by necromancers.

Or, you know, the part when the old Forsaken woke up as puppets.

Sylvanas should clearly be the figurehead of UNICEF.

All aboard the straw train!




Infracted for trolling

[Friendlyimmolation]

Can you tell me how Sylvanas is different from Arthas?



No she just uses freshly turned undead in their rabid state to make them kill their own families. She's such a nice person.



Arthas had plenty people that followed him willingly. The higher tiered Scourge were mostly free willed, it's the cannonfodder that were mindless.

And fucking please, if she had the means she'd do it. She just isn't strong enough to do it. We both know she was in the Horde due to necessity. Once you kill and raise farmers it's pretty clear you aren't going to stop. What, you think she wouldn't destroy and raise Stormwind if she had the chance? Lul.



Oh yeah I'm sure the humans killed and raised to fight for the ones that killed them are very happy that they were raised by Val'kyr and not by necromancers.

Sylvanas should clearly be the figurehead of UNICEF.

Full of straw. Man its good to see you repeat the same old bullshit time and time again. Do you have a reset or something where you just decided to start to posting the same question again and again?

[pateuvasiliu]

Full of straw. Man its good to see you repeat the same old bullshit time and time again. Do you have a reset or something where you just decided to start to posting the same question again and again?

Hey, it's fine that you want to defend your undead waifu but most normal people would agree killing people and raising them is kinda evil, especially when you were bitching about how undeath is so horrible.

Then, after finding out she's bound to hell, Sylvanas suddenly doesn't give a toss about how bad undeath is anymore. She throws all ''morals'' away and starts doing the very thing Arthas was doing.

But you do you. Can't wait 'till she's a raid boss

[Friendlyimmolation]

Hey, it's fine that you want to defend your undead waifu but most normal people would agree killing people and raising them is kinda evil, especially when you were bitching about how undeath is so horrible.

Til all it takes for you to perceive 2 people as the same is one common practice, one that isn't even the same because unlike the scourge, forsaken have free will.

Then, after finding out she's bound to hell, Sylvanas suddenly doesn't give a toss about how bad undeath is anymore. She throws all ''morals'' away and starts doing the very thing Arthas was doing.

You're right, Sylvanas aims for the destruction of all life on Azeroth and wants to be the king/queen of an undead world. Oh wait. That goal was never expressed by her anywhere other than headcanon?

[Rhlor]

Silgryn: In my entire lifetime, I never left the borders of Suramar. To see this place is to understand the fate that almost befell my people.
Lady Liadrin: And nearly mine as well. The sin'dorei also had a leader who struck a bargain with the Legion, poisoning us in the process.
Silgryn: An unbridled thirst for power is the most terrible corruption of all. How did your people find their path forward?
Lady Liadrin: We banded together to fight for our place on Azeroth. And we realized we needed allies to stand with us.
Silgryn: IAnd has the Horde served that purpose for you?
Lady Liadrin: It has. Make no mistake, ours has not been an easy road, and we have struggled through dark times. But together we face a world that has often turned its back on us. Together, we find strength.
Silgryn: A valuable perspective, Lady Liadrin. You have given me much to ponder.

[Verdugo]

Silgryn: In my entire lifetime, I never left the borders of Suramar. To see this place is to understand the fate that almost befell my people.
Lady Liadrin: And nearly mine as well. The sin'dorei also had a leader who struck a bargain with the Legion, poisoning us in the process.
Silgryn: An unbridled thirst for power is the most terrible corruption of all. How did your people find their path forward?
Lady Liadrin: We banded together to fight for our place on Azeroth. And we realized we needed allies to stand with us.
Silgryn: IAnd has the Horde served that purpose for you?
Lady Liadrin: It has. Make no mistake, ours has not been an easy road, and we have struggled through dark times. But together we face a world that has often turned its back on us. Together, we find strength.
Silgryn: A valuable perspective, Lady Liadrin. You have given me much to ponder.

Ok? How many times are you going to post quotes that were repeated like hundred times last days?

[Mehrunes]

And what is the issue with your comprehension that prevents you from realizing that she doesn't have to be good to be different than the Lich King and that her not being good does not make the differences not-differences?

Hey, it's fine that you want to defend your undead waifu but most normal people would agree killing people and raising them is kinda evil, especially when you were bitching about how undeath is so horrible.

Still unsure what that issue was, but it seems you haven't resolved it. And nice goalpost move with dropping the topic of differences to the Lich King entirely and instead focusing on irrelevant shit.

But you do you. Can't wait 'till she's a raid boss

Waiting for a decade already. Still nothing.

[xskarma]

Enough with the bickering and personal attacks. Discuss the subject not eachother or the way people are discussing.

[pateuvasiliu]

Til all it takes for you to perceive 2 people as the same is one common practice, one that isn't even the same because unlike the scourge, forsaken have free will.

Their free will is just an illusion. Sylvanas raised them into Undeath. They pretty much have to fight for the Forsaken. Where else will they go? Who'll take them?

You're making it look like it's an easy choice to just put a gun to your head and kill yourself. How do they even know they'll have a peaceful afterlife now that they're Undead? For all they know they're all headed to torment for being Undead.

You're right, Sylvanas aims for the destruction of all life on Azeroth and wants to be the king/queen of an undead world. Oh wait. That goal was never expressed by her anywhere other than headcanon?

Lol because it's hard to tell that someone that's so deranged she'd kill and raise her own sister wants to take over the world of the living.