[Balance] Legion Discussion

[huth]

Weird, this was exactly how I figured it functioned...pretty much the same way Erratic Metronome works.

I think Moon and Stars is a closer fit since we can control when the buff starts.

[Myztikrice]

So what makes the Tarnished Sentinel Medallion so OP? I've heard it scales with a lot of things we have but what exactly works with it? For a 2min cd trinket it DOES seem to put out a significant amount of damage but is that because the trinket itself is really strong or because we're moonkins?

It deals good damage and has a fairly short cooldown, and as joltcola said we get extra dipping by our debuff + moonkin form. It's also BIS for Hunters I believe just because they get so many attacks that it procs constantly

[Kyanion]

It deals good damage and has a fairly short cooldown, and as joltcola said we get extra dipping by our debuff + moonkin form. It's also BIS for Hunters I believe just because they get so many attacks that it procs constantly

Does it proc with DoT ticks and starfall or is it when direct hits happen? I have been pretty impressed trying it out so far as it lines up nicely with Incarnation when using IFE.

[Fappy]

I really don't like how Whispers interacts with our new 4pc. A lot of the time I end up with the Whispers debuff and 5 haste stacks. Feels bad. I have a 930 shark trinket, so maybe I can replace whispers with Owl when I eventually get it.

[foibooze]

Well, ending up with devil's due and tier haste buffs can't hurt can it? It would then negate alot of the debuff :P

[Bugg]

How's Tome of Unraveling Sanity for us?
It's not very clear for me what the buff does.

[Kluian05]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed but Balance 4P T20 set bonus did not work like I expect it to. I expected it to be like Iron Fur where each stack has its own timer. Instead all stacks share the same timer and the time starts from the first stack. So the buff duration and magnitude goes like this:

1 stack 20s
2 stack 15s remaining
3 stack 10s remaining
4 stack 5s remaining

Stack drops off all buffs are lost and you start from 0 again.

If this is the intended functionality then I think this changes our stat preference I think. This is kind of like a pseudo ED like functionality. You'd want high amount of haste. Where whilst the stack is building, you try to cram in as many Starsurges as possible. Probably need to look at AP gen rate and how to maximise use of the stack. Also, I think this also devalues the set bonus overall as it depends on how high you can get the stack and how long you can get it that high.

TLDR; Looks like high haste is still necessary to take full advantage of 4P T20.

Oh bummer that's how I read the 4 pc description originally as well. I wonder how much stronger the set bonus would have been if each stack had its own timer.

[Hellshout]

How do you manage Maiden transition? I killed her first time today(pug) and I got a 24% parse -.-
We didn't stack in the middle to get orbs, we just ran to the boss and there we picked up orbs. During the movement I just spam SF/MF and at the boss, cast how I can SW.
With guild we tried stacking in the middle and then running and I was at 30% before we wiped at 24% health.

Let's assume I'm going to stack middle, I'm using SD(God knows why, I never used it) and ED. Do I weave the regular rotation with surges or starfall her and maybe move left right with the tank to get stacks?
Or tell me how you managed it better.

Thanks for the help.

[huth]

How's Tome of Unraveling Sanity for us?
It's not very clear for me what the buff does.

It puts a DoT on the target for 12 seconds. When the DoT expires or the target dies, you get a a crit buff for 12 seconds plus whatever time was left on the DoT(i.e. 0 seconds if it ran out, or up to 12s if the target died immediately on application).

Since crit isn't particularly good for us and it does shadow damage, it isn't that great a trinket.

[Myztikrice]

How do you manage Maiden transition? I killed her first time today(pug) and I got a 24% parse -.-
We didn't stack in the middle to get orbs, we just ran to the boss and there we picked up orbs. During the movement I just spam SF/MF and at the boss, cast how I can SW.
With guild we tried stacking in the middle and then running and I was at 30% before we wiped at 24% health.

Let's assume I'm going to stack middle, I'm using SD(God knows why, I never used it) and ED. Do I weave the regular rotation with surges or starfall her and maybe move left right with the tank to get stacks?
Or tell me how you managed it better.

Thanks for the help.

If you don't have Oneth's there's no reason to use SD on Maidens. You are supposed to move with a group on your side and pick up buffs as a group together. Look at your timers for when she's about to transition and pool AP. You only have to run like 1/3 of the way to her before you are 40 yards away, then you can cast some instants/quick solar wraths/starsurges while picking up buffs.

[Elrandir]

I just got Tarnished Sentinel Medallion last week and Charm of the Rising Tide this week on heroic both, am I correct in assuming I start with sentinal stacking with celestial/incarnation and pots and pop charm of the rising tide right after when it's available? I mean due to the shared trinket cd of 20 seconds, I got 4 piece T20 (not all heroic) and 2 piece T19 too btw if that matters for the haste the 4piece gives.

[Kluian05]

How do you manage Maiden transition? I killed her first time today(pug) and I got a 24% parse -.-
We didn't stack in the middle to get orbs, we just ran to the boss and there we picked up orbs. During the movement I just spam SF/MF and at the boss, cast how I can SW.
With guild we tried stacking in the middle and then running and I was at 30% before we wiped at 24% health.

Let's assume I'm going to stack middle, I'm using SD(God knows why, I never used it) and ED. Do I weave the regular rotation with surges or starfall her and maybe move left right with the tank to get stacks?
Or tell me how you managed it better.

Thanks for the help.

Ideally on this fight you stack on the gold border between two ball lanes near the boss with your group. Then let the tank/melee move in to get the orbs so it hits the stack group while they remaining stationary (so healers can heal, and range DPS stand still).

In my attempts though I've just been dropping a Starfall with SD and picking up orbs as I DPS on the move. I use OI/IFE.

[zeoos]

How do you manage Maiden transition? I killed her first time today(pug) and I got a 24% parse -.-
We didn't stack in the middle to get orbs, we just ran to the boss and there we picked up orbs. During the movement I just spam SF/MF and at the boss, cast how I can SW.
With guild we tried stacking in the middle and then running and I was at 30% before we wiped at 24% health.

Let's assume I'm going to stack middle, I'm using SD(God knows why, I never used it) and ED. Do I weave the regular rotation with surges or starfall her and maybe move left right with the tank to get stacks?
Or tell me how you managed it better.

Thanks for the help.

Maiden is a easy fight for Owls since you don't have to move to move that much.
Start behind the tank. 1st infusion, displacer beast on the other side. On N you can stack on tank and on HC keep distance for the pools on ground.
If you have bomb, move to edge immediately and jump at 1.5s remaining. Try to make it so the bomb throws you close to boss, if it doesn't, just use displacer beast.
On transition, we make the tank use Roar. We use two marks ~10-15y away from where boss will teleport, on the golden line between the two inner lanes.
All the people stack on marks and only tanks get orbs. They have a 5y splash and everyone will get the debuff if stayed stacked.
When she teleports, I immediately use displacer beast and get to the mark, starting to dps.
This is the best strategy for N and HC when you deal with pugs or in a 30 people guild raid group when half of them are braindead mouthbreathers that run arround like headless chicken.

Just minimize your movement and your parses should go higher as people start to learn the fight.
If the rest of your group messes up constantly, you will get low parses since you have to deal with unnecessary bombs and movement.
For example, my last week parse was 20% since I had like 10 bombs and died at 10% health remaining.
This week, I got only one bomb and parsed 92%.

[Killuha]

Start behind the tank. 1st infusion, displacer beast on the other side.

Using displacer on Infusion seems like overkill, the timing is fixed and you have 5sec after the cast is finished to get to the right side.

[Hellshout]

If you don't have Oneth's there's no reason to use SD on Maidens.

That makes total sense...I just blindly followed the top talents taken without looking at associated legos.
Thank you all for the advices.

Regarding t21: if it will stay like this and SS will become a NB, means there's no reason to take NB in the first place, so SD it is. But what about in ST fights like Krosus(if there are)? Seems like we're losing our last talent which was supposed to be the best if anything we use will get us nothing.

[Killuha]

Regarding t21: if it will stay like this and SS will become a NB, means there's no reason to take NB in the first place, so SD it is. But what about in ST fights like Krosus(if there are)? Seems like we're losing our last talent which was supposed to be the best if anything we use will get us nothing.

I think you are misreading the bonus, it does nothing to modify the duration of our dots. It buffs the damage for a certain time.

[Hellshout]

I think you are misreading the bonus, it does nothing to modify the duration of our dots. It buffs the damage for a certain time.

Ow right right right. I did read it correctly, but my brain couldn't comprehend. I thought it's Blizz's way to integrating NB into our skill set.

[zeoos]

Using displacer on Infusion seems like overkill, the timing is fixed and you have 5sec after the cast is finished to get to the right side.

Infusion is the spell that mixes up all holy and fel debuffs and has a 3s cast. You are not supposed to switch sides during the cast because you don't always get your debuff switched. It is possible that the Infusion casts on you the same debuff (fel/holy)
And either way, would you want to walk to the other side or blink and cut 3/4 of the time it would take you to get to the other side?
On that fight, I only use blink if my debuff is switched or she teleported across the room.

[Killuha]

Infusion is the spell that mixes up all holy and fel debuffs and has a 3s cast. You are not supposed to switch sides during the cast because you don't always get your debuff switched. It is possible that the Infusion casts on you the same debuff (fel/holy)
And either way, would you want to walk to the other side or blink and cut 3/4 of the time it would take you to get to the other side?
On that fight, I only use blink if my debuff is switched or she teleported across the room.

Keep in mind that Displacer costs you 2 gcds.

The timer on Infusion is fixed and there is a 5 second grace period after the infusion cast is finished before you can trigger the bombs. So you can plan ahead and use instants to switch sides without having to refresh dots outside the pandemic window.

[thedeisel]

i haven't checked yet, and haven't read either way if it's been tested yet, but it'll be interesting to see whether the buff from the T21 4pc bonus stack.

If it doesn't, that'd suck. Using double starsurges during movement would just waste the value of the bonus.