Trump Better Than Obama

[Wyrt]

At killing civilians

http://www.thedailybeast.com/preside...ilians-per-day

6 months in and Trump has nearly matched Obama's 8 year total. Seems like that's one campaign promise Trump was able to keep after all.

Make America War Criminals Again?

[Allybeboba]

The 2,300 number from the Obama administration is from US 'air strikes'. The 2,200 is from 'strikes' from all countries.
We need a number from from just US 'air strikes' to compare the two in real terms.

Secondly, there has been no change in doctrine in the rules of engagement since the Obama administration. All one has to do is look at the graph in the provided link and see where the lion's share of the casualties are coming from.

[Draco-Onis]

The 2,300 number from the Obama administration is from US 'air strikes'. The 2,200 is from 'strikes' from all countries.
We need a number from from just US 'air strikes' to compare the two in real terms.

Secondly, there has been no change in doctrine in the rules of engagement since the Obama administration. All one has to do is look at the graph in the provided link and see where the lion's share of the casualties are coming from.

I think the change has been that Trump has given control of the strikes to the generals so they happen more often with greater force (MOB). I am not sure about the numbers on the op would have to look that up.

[Rukh]

The 2,300 number from the Obama administration is from US 'air strikes'. The 2,200 is from 'strikes' from all countries.
We need a number from from just US 'air strikes' to compare the two in real terms.

Secondly, there has been no change in doctrine in the rules of engagement since the Obama administration. All one has to do is look at the graph in the provided link and see where the lion's share of the casualties are coming from.

This doesn't seem to be true, with respect to data here:
https://airwars.org/civilian-casualty-claims/

Where does your information come from?

[Allybeboba]

This doesn't seem to be true, with respect to data here:
https://airwars.org/civilian-casualty-claims/

Where does your information come from?

The spin piece provided from the OP.

[Grapemask]

I think the change has been that Trump has given control of the strikes to the generals so they happen more often with greater force (MOB). I am not sure about the numbers on the op would have to look that up.

Yeah, this is actually a pretty massive change. Trump basically told the military "you guys have the authority to do whatever, don't even worry about telling me." It hasn't worked that way in a very long time. It takes a lot of accountability out of the process - not in the way that Trump can no longer take direct blame for what's done over there (which is also true), but that the military lost an important step for keeping them accountable.

[Allybeboba]

Yeah, this is actually a pretty massive change. Trump basically told the military "you guys have the authority to do whatever, don't even worry about telling me." It hasn't worked that way in a very long time. It takes a lot of accountability out of the process - not in the way that Trump can no longer take direct blame for what's done over there (which is also true), but that the military lost an important step for keeping them accountable.

Do you have a source for that? Or are you just making that up?

[Orbitus]

Do you have a source for that? Or are you just making that up?

Probably the fact that when they dropped the Mother of All Bombs, aka the MOAB, Trump didn't even know about it. It was the first time it was ever used in a combat setting.

[Trifle]

Do you have a source for that? Or are you just making that up?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+gives+con...es+to+generals

[Allybeboba]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=trump+gives+con...es+to+generals

Seems he did.
It appears a PotUS is letting the military do their job for a change.

[Wyrt]

Seems he did.
It appears a PotUS is letting the military do their job for a change.

Military's job is to kill civilians?

[Omega10]

Seems he did.
It appears a PotUS is letting the military do their job for a change.

And, as a result, the OP is correct in that the US has killed almost as many civilians under Trump in 6 months than under Obama in 8 years. Which will likely result in MOAB (Mother of All Blowback).

[Allybeboba]

And, as a result, the OP is correct in that the US has killed almost as many civilians under Trump in 6 months than under Obama in 8 years. Which will likely result in MOAB (Mother of All Blowback).

What are the numbers from 2008 to 2016 confirmed civilians killed by US alone compared to 2017 confirmed civilians killed by US alone?

- - - Updated - - -

Military's job is to kill civilians?

I don't know, is it?

[Orbitus]

What are the numbers from 2008 to 2016 confirmed civilians killed by US alone compared to 2017 confirmed civilians killed by US alone?

- - - Updated - - -



I don't know, is it?

Why am I not surprised that Allybeboba is playing fucking semantics with civilian deaths?

[Antipathy1018]

Why am I not surprised that Allybeboba is playing fucking semantics with civilian deaths?

Care to enlighten us as to how asking for solid confirmation of numbers is "playing fucking semantics", sounds more like fact checking.

[tikcol]

This doesn't seem to be true, with respect to data here:
https://airwars.org/civilian-casualty-claims/

Where does your information come from?

It comes from a place that fits his agenda

[Orbitus]

Care to enlighten us as to how asking for solid confirmation of numbers is "playing fucking semantics", sounds more like fact checking.

No, Allybeboba is the apparently master of pulling the semantics card. It doesn't matter if its confirmed or not, he will do it with everything that is critical of Trump. And then claim not to be supporting Trump.

[Antipathy1018]

No, Allybeboba is the apparently master of pulling the semantics card. It doesn't matter if its confirmed or not, he will do it with everything that is critical of Trump. And then claim not to be supporting Trump.

Well if it is confirmed that he is wrong then he has no leg to stand on and well if he is that hyper partisan well . . . not much anyone can do so don't engage with them. But till that happens why bother, especially using such a flawed argument? It just makes you look as hyper partisan as they are, regardless if that is their past behavior. Hell even a broken clock is right twice a day and all that.

[TZucchini]

Obama only killed 2,300 civilians during his time in office?

No way that number is right.

[Rukh]

The spin piece provided from the OP.

Do you mean you're interpreting the wording a certain way? They data appears to be consistent across comparisons.