16 year old German teen who joined ISIL captured by Iraqi forces in Mosul

[josykay]

Citizenship should be revoked, obviously.

- - - Updated - - -

Look kittens, I know their is an impulse to note her age and lament that adolescence is a time of experimentation, but FFS. Teenage experimentation is vaping, it is skinny jeans, it is not confusion or ambivalence on the basic notions of human life and human decency; which is to say, if you are a teenager in the affluent west who finds herself on the fence on something like "well, maybe it IS a good idea to behead or crucify infidels, to boil people alive for lulz, to promote sexual enslavement of women and children", you are already fucking broken. That isn't a kids will be kids week of skipping school.

Germany can not revoke citizenship, if the person would become stateless because of that. There were some excemptions by people, wo cheated to get citizenship in the first place. But this did not happen here.

PS: On another note: I am a bit convused, because german news sides denied, that she would have been arrested, and stated, that all of the arrested women were around 30. So what is true now?!

[Toogoodman]

You are.
How old are you that you think otherwise? 14?

At the age of 17, in most Western Countries, you are able to join the armed forces, and if caught by the enemy, you will either be put in a prison camp, or executed. So is this not the same situation? at 16, you're allowed to drive, hell, in a lot of countries you're allowed to drink alcohol. If she were 11, i would say yeah, she was naive and fucking stupid, but she knew what was up. When you were 16, and someone was hitting you up saying "hey, come join ISIL to be the wife of soldiers and birth many children!" what would you think? would your first thought be "fucking dope, im going to leave my family, friends, and life, to join ISIL!!!!!! No, because thats not even close to a rational, coherent thought.

- - - Updated - - -

She is young and she was a victim in first place, brainwashing from isis is really strong. the problem is now to know if her mind and spirit is still poisoned by propaganda or not. This girl have parent who, i am sur, want her now at home. but it's hard to say but she can be a threat now. I remember two youngs girls from Croatia who joined isis for for the same purpose (age 15 and 16) when they tried to flee they were beheaded by there rapists. all that shit .... smell really bad. but i am a cynical one all those teens are "good" exemples

So, lets say they don't punish her, and they send her back to high school, or a GED program. Would you want this "little girl" hanging out with your kids? Would you want her serving you dinner if she worked as a waitress? would you want her driving cars on the streets where you live? Fuck that, shes a threat, and always will be.

[Deleted]

At the age of 17, in most Western Countries, you are able to join the armed forces, and if caught by the enemy, you will either be put in a prison camp, or executed. So is this not the same situation? at 16, you're allowed to drive, hell, in a lot of countries you're allowed to drink alcohol. If she were 11, i would say yeah, she was naive and fucking stupid, but she knew what was up. When you were 16, and someone was hitting you up saying "hey, come join ISIL to be the wife of soldiers and birth many children!" what would you think? would your first thought be "fucking dope, im going to leave my family, friends, and life, to join ISIL!!!!!! No, because thats not even close to a rational, coherent thought.

'Responsibility' is the personal duty of not abusing that which you control, which is something that i learned during my early 30's.

I had zero clue what responsibility actually meant when i was 16, all i cared about is over-dramatising house rules in the name of my retarded crusade towards making a name of myself, that of an ass. But hey that's got you all the pussy back then.

We need to take measures against the people who baited and took advantage of her vulnerable state, and we need to help her snap out of it.

[SupBrah]

She should be tried for treason and used as an example of what happens when you go join an fanatic cult who's sole purpose is to kill others that don't follow their doctrine.

I'm sick of hearing that "Kids do dumb shit" excuse. She was 16, an age where we trust teens to have the mental capacity to drive vehicles and 2 years away from voting. she knew what ISIS was doing, she knew that ISIS was considered an enemy of Germany, and she knew damn well what she was getting into.

[Alydael]

Its actually the universal legal definition, but please, keep plugging your ears and saying "LALALALALALALA"

- - - Updated - - -



At 16, i know for a lot of countries, you can be charged as an adult, i am not 100% sure about Germany. Most Countries believe that depending on bad your crime is, at 16 you're fully liable.

There is also a big difference between, lets say, being 16 and accidentally killing someone with your car, and willfully leaving your Country of birth, and joining the biggest, and most evil, terrorist organization on the planet. What really sucks for her, is she is one of the first to be captured who did this, and she will probably be extradited back to Germany. Knowing how much Germany hates decent, and stuff like this, i wouldn't be surprised if they make an example of her to deter people from doing the same thing. If they let her off the hook, it makes it look like you can get away with it, and others will likely continue to do it. Its not like she went to summer camp for a couple of months, she joined ISIL, known to be the most brutal, ruthless, genocidal, terrorist organization in the world. She KNEW what these people were, and decided to join them.

We have yet to establish what she actually did for ISIS though. We would need to figure out if she was just one of the sex slave women they pass around (or trade for cigarettes) or if she was actually involved in any violence or battles.

If she actually fought for ISIS, they should treat her as an enemy combatant. If she was a bride or sex slave, maybe go a little easier on her.

If she was a "combatant" I say- don't extradite her. Don't waste another single dollar on her. Let her rot in one of the miserable jails over there.

[Noradin]

Well there is the whole treason angle of it...

There isn't because the German law states otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -

Loyalty/treason is a binary state. You're loyal to Europa and what we have inherited, or you're not.

It isn't.
Unless you have sworn fealty which this girl didn't do (to Germany).
That's how the German law works.

- - - Updated - - -

Its actually the universal legal definition, but please, keep plugging your ears and saying "LALALALALALALA"

It isn't.
Because it cannot be. Legal definitions aren't universal.

- - - Updated - - -

Its actually the universal legal definition, but please, keep plugging your ears and saying "LALALALALALALA"

- - - Updated - - -



At 16, i know for a lot of countries, you can be charged as an adult, i am not 100% sure about Germany. Most Countries believe that depending on bad your crime is, at 16 you're fully liable.

Yes, you do not know about Germany.
That is your problem. You assume. And you are wrong.

[Deleted]

She was 16, an age where we trust teens to have the mental capacity to drive vehicles and 2 years away from voting

That's like saying that having the mental capacity to fry an egg makes me a chef, and that my food should be judged with the strictest standards.

[Noradin]

At the age of 17, in most Western Countries, you are able to join the armed forces, and if caught by the enemy, you will either be put in a prison camp, or executed. So is this not the same situation? at 16, you're allowed to drive, hell, in a lot of countries you're allowed to drink alcohol. If she were 11, i would say yeah, she was naive and fucking stupid, but she knew what was up. When you were 16, and someone was hitting you up saying "hey, come join ISIL to be the wife of soldiers and birth many children!" what would you think? would your first thought be "fucking dope, im going to leave my family, friends, and life, to join ISIL!!!!!! No, because thats not even close to a rational, coherent thought.

It isn't the same situation.
The laws of Germany say so.

- - - Updated - - -

She should be tried for treason and used as an example of what happens when you go join an fanatic cult who's sole purpose is to kill others that don't follow their doctrine.

Germany cannot try her for treason because under German laws you can only be tried for treason if you have sworn fealty to Germany.
At her age she couldn't have done that before leaving.

[SupBrah]

There isn't because the German law states otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -



It isn't.
Unless you have sworn fealty which this girl didn't do (to Germany).
That's how the German law works.

- - - Updated - - -



It isn't.
Because it cannot be. Legal definitions aren't universal.

You don't need to "swear fealty" to be tried for treason

Here you go, German Law:

Section 81 High Treason Against the Federation
(1) Whoever undertakes with force or through threat of force:
1. to undermine the continued existence of the Federal Republic of Germany; or
2. to change the constitutional order based on the Basic Law of the Federal Republic of Germany,
shall be punished with imprisonment for life or for not less than ten years.

Running off to join ISIS, a group who openly states they want to destroy certain countries including Germany (undermine the continued existence of the Federal Republic of Germany), is most definitely considered "threat of force." She didn't run off to join ISIS for tea parties or anything :eyeroll:

Note that is also says "Whoever" and not "Whoever has sworn fealty to Germany". Literally nothing in there about "swearing fealty to Germany." I have no idea where you got that from, but if you honestly think only German soldiers can be tried for treason then you're just being blissfully ignorant. Go run off to ISIS, kill some Allied troops, get caught and see if you don't get tried for High Treason.

[primalmatter]

There isn't because the German law states otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -



It isn't.
Unless you have sworn fealty which this girl didn't do (to Germany).
That's how the German law works.

- - - Updated - - -



It isn't.
Because it cannot be. Legal definitions aren't universal.

- - - Updated - - -


Yes, you do not know about Germany.
That is your problem. You assume. And you are wrong.

You can join a terrorist organization and not be a terrorist in Germany?

[Noradin]

You don't need to "swear fealty" to be tried for treason

Here you go, German Law:



Running of to join ISIS, a group who openly states they want to destroy certain countries including Germany (undermine the continued existence of the Federal Republic of Germany), is most definitely considered "threat of force." She didn't run off to join ISIS for tea parties or anything :eyeroll:

That quote is incomplete.
According to what you have posted everyone who ever waged war against Germany would be a "traitor" to Germany. Regardless of citizenship and origin.
That is obviously laughable.

[Noradin]

You can join a terrorist organization and not be a terrorist in Germany?

Yes. Of course.
You will be a criminal but not necessarily a traitor or a terrorist.

It's a civil law system, not a common law one.
They define all crimes in advance not by precedent.

Being a terrorist and being a member of a terrorist organisation are related crimes but not one and the same.

[SupBrah]

That quote is incomplete.
According to what you have posted everyone who ever waged war against Germany would be a "traitor" to Germany. Regardless of citizenship and origin.
That is obviously laughable.

... Are you just pretending to be this dense to troll? German law is for German citizens.

[Noradin]

... Are you intentionally being dense to troll? German law is for German citizens.

No, German law is for anyone residing in Germany.
Not all of it applies to Germans who are currently out of the country and most of it applies to anyone who is inside the country.
To whom it applies must be made clear in each law.

did you assume you could just come to Germany and start shooting people whitout breaking the law because "the German law applies only to Germans", or something? Are you delusional?

[Independent voter]

CANADIAN WOMEN WHO JOINED ISIS FOUND IN TUNNEL UNDER MOSUL'S OLD CITY

They found a bunch of ISIS wives The group was composed of two Canadians, five Germans, three Russians, three Turkish citizens, a Chechen and six Libyans and Syrians


I was debating on starting a new thread or not.

[Toogoodman]

It isn't the same situation.
The laws of Germany say so.

This is just willful ignorance, saying that one of those is a rational, coherent decision, and the other isn't, is setting yourself up for failure. In a country where sharing mean memes gets your prosecuted, how is joining ISIL considered just a simple misunderstanding. If she doesn't face the music, prepare for a lot more "kids" going to Syria in the future.

She made the choice herself, on her own, to go. She wasn't kidnapped, they didn't drive to her house, drug her, and take her. She said she wanted to go, they sent her a ticket for the flight, she went to the airport, and left. By leaving, she renounced her Country, if Germany doesn't see it that way, there are a lot of problems with that legal system.

Section 19 of German Strafgesetzbuch: A Child’s Lack of Capacity to be Adjudged Guilty

Whoever upon commission of the act is under fourteen years of age lacks capacity to be adjudged guilty.

Shes 16, so shes has "capacity to be adjudged guilty", so by German law, shes of legal age to be liable for her action.

Section 100 of German Strafgesetzbuch: Peace-endangering Relationships (which is in the same section as traditional treason, and acts against the German Military)

(1) Whoever, as a German, who has his livelihood in the territorial area of application of this law, with the intent of starting a war or armed action against the Federal Republic of Germany, establishes or maintains relationships with a government, organization or institution outside of the territorial area of application of this law or one of its intermediaries, shall be punished with imprisonment for not less than one year.

(2) In especially serious cases the punishment shall be imprisonment for life or not less than five years. An especially serious case exists as a rule, if the perpetrator creates by the act a serious danger to the continued existence of the Federal Republic of Germany.

She certainly meets those criteria, no one joins a terrorist organization because its summer camp.

[SupBrah]

No, German law is for anyone residing in Germany.
Not all of it applies to Germans who are currently out of the country and most of it applies to anyone who is inside the country.
To whom it applies must be made clear in each law.

did you assume you could just come to Germany and start shooting people whitout breaking the law because "the German law applies only to Germans", or something? Are you delusional?

Dude... Are you serious right now? Of fucking course I know german law applies to anyone within German territory. We're not talking about within the country though. We're talking about German citizens, abroad or not. If you think you can commit crimes in other countries and not face potential consequences when you get back to Germany then you're the delusional one.

But if you REALLY think you can commit crimes such as treason abroad and not face consequences in Germany, then here ya go:

Section 5
Offences committed abroad against domestic legal interests

German criminal law shall apply, regardless of the law applicable in the locality where the act was committed, to the following acts committed abroad:

1. preparation of a war of aggression (section 80);

2. high treason against the Federation (Sections 81 to 83);

3. endangering the democratic state under the rule of law

(a) in cases under section 89 and section 90a(1), and section 90b, if the offender is German and has his main livelihood in the territory of the Federal Republic of Germany ; and

(b) in cases under section 90 and section 90a(2);

That literally took 15 seconds to find that stuff online. Please do a little bit of research next time before you come into a thread swinging around misinformation on topics you clearly have no knowledge of.

[Toogoodman]

That literally took 15 seconds to find that stuff online. Please do a little bit of research next time before you come into a thread swinging around misinformation on topics you clearly have no knowledge of.

I am basically at this point assuming that hes trolling, or he just has a hard on for Islamist

[Ozyorkbourne]

I certainly hope they don't take any British ISIS fighters or connected extremists alive. Rather see them shot dead thank risk something should they return to the UK. They made their choice. They can live with it... or not, hopefully.

[Easo]

I just love the ever tolerant liberal left. If you dont have the same opinion, you are irratinal/evil/kid/idiot.

You are denying the rule of law?