Tomb of Sargeras Progression Thread

[Dangg]

Back when I started raiding at some serious level, it was common for guilds to wipe for many weeks everyday on the same boss to get some 50th place in the world. Because no one expected encounters to be nerfed until they are obsolete, so it's either you kill it as it is or you can stop raiding and disband. And now people are spoiled by bosses being nerfed all the time, while Blizzard doesn't even have the "we want more people to see the stuff we made" excuse they used long time ago, because the same stuff exists in difficulties eaiser than mythic.

I believe no significant changes should be made to mythic bosses before the next raiding tier is released. Some small changes and bug fixes if the encounter is not functioning as was expected are OK, but not general nerfs.

Which boss back when you were raiding took the #1 guild 650 wipes to kill?

[Vorkreist]

it was common for guilds to wipe for many weeks everyday on the same boss.

In what game was that? Sounds pretty hardcore.

[Immortal]

Which boss back when you were raiding took the #1 guild 650 wipes to kill?

Yogg+0 took way more for the world first. The second one was closer to 200 though.

[jjbarea]

oh boy back to yog0 is that you kungen

[Deleted]

Yogg+0 took way more for the world first. The second one was closer to 200 though.

Source? Paragon killed the boss 3 days after Stars and "only" had 160 wipes. It's strange if Stars has four times more wipes...

- - - Updated - - -

And by the way Yogg got gutted a week after stars kill... Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...gg-sarron-nerf

[Orwell7]

If you're in 930 average gear, you're not even close to wearing 930 gear in every slot. My main has ~927, and I have 1 item 930, 1 at 925, a few at 920, and the rest below that

The fact is still a fact.
Fallen Avatar killed in 928.39, drops 930 -> 1.6 ilvl difference
KJ - 933.74, drops 940 -> 6.26 ilvl difference

Blackhand, for example, killed in 683.5, while he dropped 700.
That's 16.5 ilvl difference.

Oh, and our ilvls are already inflated by the artifact and legendaries. While it's true that being in 930 don't mean every slot has 930, it means also that, compared to previous expansions, you won't get massive upgrades by getting a new Mythic-quality weapon, and new Mythic trinkets are more often than not, aren't as a big power increase than it was in all previous expansions.

You won't get much stronger by farming Mythic weekly, compared to previous expansions. That's my point.

[Deleted]

The fact is still a fact.
Fallen Avatar killed in 928.39, drops 930 -> 1.6 ilvl difference
KJ - 933.74, drops 940 -> 6.26 ilvl difference

Blackhand, for example, killed in 683.5, while he dropped 700.
That's 16.5 ilvl difference.

Oh, and our ilvls are already inflated by the artifact and legendaries. While it's true that being in 930 don't mean every slot has 930, it means also that, compared to previous expansions, you won't get massive upgrades by getting a new Mythic-quality weapon, and new Mythic trinkets are more often than not, aren't as a big power increase than it was in all previous expansions.

You won't get much stronger by farming Mythic weekly, compared to previous expansions. That's my point.

Titanforged offset your last points. By the time world 100+ guilds get on KJ they'll have 940-945 ilevel, and more
for 1000ish guilds.

[Immortal]

Source? Paragon killed the boss 3 days after Stars and "only" had 160 wipes. It's strange if Stars has four times more wipes...

- - - Updated - - -

And by the way Yogg got gutted a week after stars kill... Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...gg-sarron-nerf

No guild except for Stars was actually trying hard to kill Yogg+0. Some guilds tried different stuff from time to time, but no one could come up with a working strategy and most people thought he was overtuned and unkillable like prenerf C'Thun or Kael'thas.

And these patch notes are from PTR, he was actually nerfed when patch 3.2 was released and 12 guilds killed his original version.

[Deleted]

No guild except for Stars was actually trying hard to kill Yogg+0. Some guilds tried different stuff from time to time, but no one could come up with a working strategy and most people thought he was overtuned and unkillable like prenerf C'Thun or Kael'thas.

And these patch notes are from PTR, he was actually nerfed when patch 3.2 was released and 12 guilds killed his original version.

So you are telling me that Paragon wasn't even trying hard to kill Yogg 0, but they still killed the boss in only 160 wipes?

[Deleted]

Source? Paragon killed the boss 3 days after Stars and "only" had 160 wipes. It's strange if Stars has four times more wipes...
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Paragon had a much more efficient strategy for it, and they were basically "new guild" as they had just merged and on their way to nr1 guild. But don't have wipe counts. Google says 500 for Stars (goes back to mmo-champ )

[FareweII]

How's the other CN guild doing? The one that's number 4, they were only a bit behind Alpha and i think they stream on panda as well.

[Immortal]

So you are telling me that Paragon wasn't even trying hard to kill Yogg 0, but they still killed the boss in only 160 wipes?

I know for sure, no one was, some guilds that already finished the rest of Ulduar tried some things and practiced P2 and transitions, but almost everyone was sure that P3 isn't possible in the current state. And Stars raid schedule was quite like Alpha's today.

Paragon had a much more efficient strategy for it, and they were basically "new guild" as they had just merged and on their way to nr1 guild. But don't have wipe counts. Google says 500 for Stars (goes back to mmo-champ )

I'm pretty sure there were more wipes. The number that was thrown around originally is around 2000, but I believe it's the number of deaths the character of a Stars member suffered from 25 ppl Yogg-saron which could be inflated for multiple reasons.

[Netherblood]

Stars yog+0 pull count cause they had no real strat, they just zerged the boss till stars aligned with good beacon spawns for them to kill the boss. Also they only had 5 warlocks in a 25man raid, pretty normal class stack by today's standards.

Paragon was the guild that had an actual strat with hunters taunting beacons out of the main add group with distracting shot, which is why their pull count was way lower.

[jjbarea]

Stars yog+0 pull count cause they had no real strat, they just zerged the boss till stars aligned with good beacon spawns for them to kill the boss. Also they only had 5 warlocks in a 25man raid, pretty normal class stack by today's standards.

Paragon was the guild that had an actual strat with hunters taunting beacons out of the main add group with distracting shot, which is why their pull count was way lower.

so stars were the original alpha? starting to see a pattern within certain region guilds

[Deleted]

<MEMENTO> Finnish aryan guild is soon to master first phase of KJ after hundreds of wipes on first phase. EZ4PARAGON

[Netherblood]

Titanforged offset your last points. By the time world 100+ guilds get on KJ they'll have 940-945 ilevel, and more
for 1000ish guilds.

Rate at which you get ilvl slows down, closer you get to TF cap because only way to get upgrades eventually is to RNG a titanforge. Which is why often 12hrs guilds in top 200 end up extending their lockouts once they get to last boss instead of re-clearing each week.

As example my guild's world 142 Gul'dan kill had avg ilvl of 910.17ilvl about 15 below TF cap, and our last kill before ToS released was 915.59ilvl, 9.4ilvls below TF cap and that is including all the loot that Gul'dan dropped during 9 weeks of farm. TF cap is now also 25 above base Mythic rather than 20 ilvls like in NH, so I doubt any guilds will be at higher ilvl than 945 by the time they get to KJ, probably 940-942 at most.

[Deleted]

Paragon was the guild that had an actual strat with hunters taunting beacons out of the main add group with distracting shot, which is why their pull count was way lower.

Usso?
/10 char

[Vorkreist]

I'm pretty sure there were more wipes. The number that was thrown around originally is around 2000,

You mean the number you are trying to pull out of your ass.

[Dangg]

so stars were the original alpha? starting to see a pattern within certain region guilds

KIN Raiders - Spine of Deathwing another zerg guild

So yeah I think there actual is a pattern.

[satimy]

KIN Raiders - Spine of Deathwing another zerg guild

So yeah I think there actual is a pattern.

KIN only got world first because the top 75 guilds were all banned for exploiting LFR