Tennessee jails shorten sentances for inmates who get Vasectomies

[Spectral]

To those who think this is moral.. would you also be ok with offering poor people food or housing if they get sterilized?

I'm probably not in favor of this for aforementioned deontological reasons - I don't want to head down that road. That said, this would be a fairly pragmatic solution to the issue of irresponsible people having children that they have absolutely no plan to support. It's not that this wouldn't work, it's that it's ethically tainted.

[Spectral]

What is the correlation between going to jail and being irresponsible enough to have children you have no plan to support?

Because unless it's 100% this doesn't actually make any sense, and I can't see how it would "work"

This is a separate comment from the previous one. I'm referring to people that have insufficient funds for their own food and housing - obviously they're not in a position to support children at that time. Sterilization is an incredibly aggressive approach, but paying them to take an IUD would almost certainly be a good use of funds. Almost tautologically, people who don't have enough money for their own food are engaging irresponsible behavior if they choose to have children at that time.

I don't really understand your comment regarding requiring 100% predictive success anyway though - any correlation would be sufficient to make subsidizing this population to not have children a eugenic policy.

[Lynarii]

The problem with this is that offering a reward to someone who is in a vulnerable position in order to do something they otherwise would not do is inherently coercive, and ethically disturbing.

Ultimately, having children is not illegal. You can not call yourself the land of the free if you support the idea of the government intervening to prevent someone from doing a legal thing that they don't like. The problem with freedom is that not everything that people choose to do with it is good. Either be a free country, or use force and coercion to try and get everyone to make good decisions, but you can't have it both ways.

(If you really want to do population control on poor people, at least be honest about what you're trying to do. Propose legal child brackets, similar to income tax brackets. People who make A-B per year can't have children at all, B-C get one kid, C-D can have two, etc... See how far that makes it.)

[Grapemask]

How is this even viewed as unethical? What kind of moron even views this as coercion? They aren't taking away anyone's ability to reproduce. They are just giving them the option to with an incentive.

Except that's barely a choice. Freedom for sterility? Given that these people are by definition of their sentence probably poor, they - or their families, clearly - can't exactly afford to be incarcerated.

And yes, this is very clearly aimed at a very specific race. When it comes to the southern states, it almost always is. They should have classes to educate people on the insanely fucked up shit that goes on down in the south to this day that is intended to hit blacks with almost surgical precision. Except it would be such a long class that no one would want to do it, because not only would it have to discuss topics such as "closing all but 10 DMVs and ID offices in the state, with the remaining offices only being open 1 day of the month, long drives from areas with large concentration of blacks, and closing after typical working hours," but it would also have to explain how that manages to actually happen in today's day and age without a full fledged riot.

[LMuhlen]

They could start simpler: convicts get a choice to get free sterilization. No other benefits other than the sterilization itself. No way of saying they got lured in with a reduction of jail time. If a convict desires not to have children and just doesn't know it's an option and/or can't afford it, everyone is happy.

[truckboattruck]

So basically eugenics.

Rofl.

genetic improvement

[Kathandira]

I think this is a great idea.

If you are in Jail because you failed to pay Alimony or cannot support children or do not want children full stop.
It does give you an option.

However, District Attorney Bryant Dunaway said that offering such rewards for people to limit their ability to have children was unethical and
perhaps even illegal.

“It’s comprehensible that an 18-year-old gets this done, it can’t get reversed and then that impacts the rest of their life,” he said.

Do some of you think this a "class' thing ? To stop the criminal element from breeding.

And does criminality run thru families?. eg Dad was a Bank Robber / Son becomes a bank robber.
If it does, then the birth control option cannot be a bad thing.



https://www.businessinsider.com.au/t...entence-2017-7

Inmates in Tennessee can get up to 30 days cut from their jail time — on the condition that they agree to get a vasectomy or a birth control implant.

A county in rural Tennessee started a program that offers inmates who get a vasectomy or insert a contraceptive device into their body with a reduced jail time sentence, NewsChannel 5 reports.

The program has been called into question both by local district attorneys and the ACLU.

“Offering a so-called ‘choice’ between jail time and coerced contraception or sterilization is unconstitutional,” the civil rights organisation said in a statement.

White County jails have been offering this option to inmates since May 15, when General Sessions Judge Sam Benningfield signed an order offering those who agree up to 30 days cut off their sentence. Already, 32 women have received the implant while 38 men are waiting to get their vasectomies done.

In an interview with the NewsChannel 5 TV station, Benningfield said that the order was meant to discourage those with drug offenses and extensive criminal records from conceiving children they cannot support.

“I hope to encourage them to take personal responsibility and give them a chance, when they do get out, to not to be burdened with children,” he said.

But District Attorney Bryant Dunaway said that offering such rewards for people to limit their ability to have children was unethical and perhaps even illegal.

“It’s comprehensible that an 18-year-old gets this done, it can’t get reversed and then that impacts the rest of their life,” he said.

My only real issue here is that Alimony still exists. Its not a very feminist thing to want. It was put in place back when most women stayed home and didn't have employment opportunities like they do today. They had no way to survive without the financial support of a spouce. We live in a completely different culture now, and it has no place any longer.

[Deleted]

Great idea. Stop criminal scum from breeding more criminal scum.

[Lynarii]

My only real issue here is that Alimony still exists. Its not a very feminist thing to want. It was put in place back when most women stayed home and didn't have employment opportunities like they do today. They had no way to survive without the financial support of a spouce. We live in a completely different culture now, and it has no place any longer.

Alimony wasn't invented by feminists, it was put in by conservative old white men. For legitimate reasons at the time. It still exists mostly because there are a lot of people who think the 50s was the best time in American history, and they're the people who are currently in power. In general, it tends to be surprisingly difficult to get old laws removed, even when they're way past relevance.

[Kathandira]

Alimony wasn't invented by feminists, it was put in by conservative old white men. For legitimate reasons at the time. It still exists mostly because there are a lot of people who think the 50s was the best time in American history, and they're the people who are currently in power. In general, it tends to be surprisingly difficult to get old laws removed, even when they're way past relevance.

Sorry, I didn't mean it to sound like Feminists created the law. Just that in this day and age where feminish is very active, this should be something that is a topic to have changed.

Everything else you wrote, I couldn't agree more.

[Noomz]

I think this is a great idea.

If you are in Jail because you failed to pay Alimony or cannot support children or do not want children full stop.
It does give you an option.

However, District Attorney Bryant Dunaway said that offering such rewards for people to limit their ability to have children was unethical and
perhaps even illegal.

“It’s comprehensible that an 18-year-old gets this done, it can’t get reversed and then that impacts the rest of their life,” he said.

Do some of you think this a "class' thing ? To stop the criminal element from breeding.

And does criminality run thru families?. eg Dad was a Bank Robber / Son becomes a bank robber.
If it does, then the birth control option cannot be a bad thing.



https://www.businessinsider.com.au/t...entence-2017-7

Inmates in Tennessee can get up to 30 days cut from their jail time — on the condition that they agree to get a vasectomy or a birth control implant.

A county in rural Tennessee started a program that offers inmates who get a vasectomy or insert a contraceptive device into their body with a reduced jail time sentence, NewsChannel 5 reports.

The program has been called into question both by local district attorneys and the ACLU.

“Offering a so-called ‘choice’ between jail time and coerced contraception or sterilization is unconstitutional,” the civil rights organisation said in a statement.

White County jails have been offering this option to inmates since May 15, when General Sessions Judge Sam Benningfield signed an order offering those who agree up to 30 days cut off their sentence. Already, 32 women have received the implant while 38 men are waiting to get their vasectomies done.

In an interview with the NewsChannel 5 TV station, Benningfield said that the order was meant to discourage those with drug offenses and extensive criminal records from conceiving children they cannot support.

“I hope to encourage them to take personal responsibility and give them a chance, when they do get out, to not to be burdened with children,” he said.

But District Attorney Bryant Dunaway said that offering such rewards for people to limit their ability to have children was unethical and perhaps even illegal.

“It’s comprehensible that an 18-year-old gets this done, it can’t get reversed and then that impacts the rest of their life,” he said.

Ah yes, "birth control" for the undesired. I thought conservatives were AGAINST big gov controlling peoples lives. This is disgusting.

[truckboattruck]

Ah yes, "birth control" for the undesired. I thought conservatives were AGAINST big gov controlling peoples lives. This is disgusting.

social behavior has a genetic component, culling bad genetics is fantastic for civilization

[Radaney]

The US is so unbelievably retarded, it just keeps breaking my expectations every day.

[zenkai]

Oh damn, can we do this for women too?

[Vash The Stampede]

I would be in support of this if the person was a child molester or a rapist, but not for Alimony or child support. Not being able to pay for Alimony or child support is more of the symptom of the economy than the individual. Why literally cut his balls for it?

[Mistame]

so who's gonna pay for what ever form of birth control? if there on welfare they most likely cant afford it them self.

Frankly, the most basic and effective forms of birth control should be free. The difference between public funding for contraceptives vs supporting the children of poor couples is pretty huge.

Frankly, there are certain sexual crimes where it SHOULD be involuntary: crimes against minors, rape and so on.

No, there's not. No one, especially government, should have the right or authority to disregard bodily autonomy.

I'm probably not in favor of this for aforementioned deontological reasons - I don't want to head down that road. That said, this would be a fairly pragmatic solution to the issue of irresponsible people having children that they have absolutely no plan to support. It's not that this wouldn't work, it's that it's ethically tainted.

Makes more sense to make contraceptives freely available. And honestly, I support the idea of guys getting (reversible) vasectomies ASAP as it ensures them a much more fruitful and happy life. If they're worried about possible consequences (it not being reversible, etc), they can have their sperm frozen and that gives them complete control over when they have children and with whom.

The US is so unbelievably retarded, it just keeps breaking my expectations every day.

Don't sugar coat it! Please, tell us how you really feel about the entirety of the US.

[Spectral]

Makes more sense to make contraceptives freely available. And honestly, I support the idea of guys getting (reversible) vasectomies ASAP as it ensures them a much more fruitful and happy life. If they're worried about possible consequences (it not being reversible, etc), they can have their sperm frozen and that gives them complete control over when they have children and with whom.

As mentioned elsewhere, I'd happily pay for not just a subsidy for IUDs for 18 year olds, but direct cash compensation. There's really no upside to teenagers unintentionally having kids - preventing that is good everyone.

[xuros]

For rapists/pedos or all inmates?

[Mistame]

As mentioned elsewhere, I'd happily pay for not just a subsidy for IUDs for 18 year olds, but direct cash compensation. There's really no upside to teenagers unintentionally having kids - preventing that is good everyone.

Agreed. And from a personal (albeit biased) perspective, finding a woman without kids is like hunting unicorns. :/

[Noomz]

social behavior has a genetic component, culling bad genetics is fantastic for civilization

And genetics has fuck all to do with criminal behavior.