Possible future hero classes.

[Azelas]

Whatever it is, make it ranged please. Every single dps class added to the game since the release of the game has been melee (DK, Monk, DH)

[Darktbs]

I'd be careful tossing around the word "easily" when it comes to implementing a Necromancer. Say what you will about @Teriz, but he's right about Blizzard using the Necromancer to develop Death Knights. It would be odd to see them go backwards and try to develop a solo class after designing an existing class around that concept.

1- Using the Necromancer concept to develop the class can mean meaning things, they use the astethics, the overhaul theme, some spells, maybe they were designing a Necromancer class that they though would fit the Wotlk Dk better.I will not deny that the Necromancer concept was used in the creation of the Dk, i read the posts about the topic, what i ask is how much was used and how much was left and can be used?

2-I would see this as a strong point, but in Legion, Blizzard redesigned every single spec available to the player.Removing spells, changing class fantasies and so on.I argued that, while the Necromancer concept was used in the creation, the class right now was so much redesigned that it opened space for the Necromancer class to have its place.

For example:The Frost Dk was supposed to be the Lich hero from wc3 and wow, but right now he embraced the Frostwyrm more then the Lich, with the Removal of Death and Decay and the addition of Summon:Sindragosa.

[Teriz]

1- Using the Necromancer concept to develop the class can mean meaning things, they use the astethics, the overhaul theme, some spells, maybe they were designing a Necromancer class that they though would fit the Wotlk Dk better.

Or we could bypass all of that and just make Unholy a ranged spec and increase their diseases and summons.

Hell, they're 2-3 abilities away from that currently.

[Thimagryn]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the connection between the first and second halves of your argument, there.

Tinkers have room to be different from Engineers by becoming a new entity that had not existed before, like Alliance Shamans and Horde Paladins. Or Paladins being a separate entity from Priests, even in today's standards if the Paladin had not existed yet. There is plenty of room for a Goblin and Gnome only class that uses tech.

Like the argument you presented for Paladins having an argument to exist because they have differences from a Priest and are not being eliminated due to their similarities, the same applies to a Tech class that is exclusive to Gnomes and Goblins and not to any other race.

[Darktbs]

Or we could bypass all of that and just make Unholy a ranged spec and increase their diseases and summons.

Hell, they're 2-3 abilities away from that currently.

While we are at it, buff the Engineer itens to deal more damage, after all they have everything a tinker could wish for, less the damage.

[Boricha]

It would be hard to do without heavy crossover of priest/druid/hunter, but I wish that Tyrande's Moon Priestess/Huntress skillset was available as a class. It could be a two spec healer/dps class I suppose. I wouldn't mind it as a spec either, but I just wish something like it was in the game.

[Teriz]

While we are at it, buff the Engineer itens to deal more damage, after all they have everything a tinker could wish for, less the damage.

Except Blizzard would never do that because then everyone would pick up the engineering profession to get the extra DPS damage it offers, especially PvP players. No one would choose the other professions. This is exactly why Blizzard neutered engineering damage in the first place.

But increasing Necromancy concepts in a class mostly based on the Necromancer?

No problem.

[Darktbs]

Except Blizzard would never do that because then everyone would pick up the engineering profession to get the extra DPS damage it offers, especially PvP players. No one would choose the other professions. This is exactly why Blizzard neutered engineering damage in the first place.

But increasing Necromancy concepts in a class mostly based on the Necromancer?

No problem.

You increase necromancy concepts in a class about Death Knights you kill the Death Knight concept.

You have a problem in removing spells from classes but have no problem in revamping them?

Wow, and by the way, blizzard already do that, Alchemy and Cooking gives stat bonus, something that increases your best stat(or especific) Stat and makes you do Extra Dps.

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It would be hard to do without heavy crossover of priest/druid/hunter, but I wish that Tyrande's Moon Priestess/Huntress skillset was available as a class. It could be a two spec healer/dps class I suppose. I wouldn't mind it as a spec either, but I just wish something like it was in the game.

Well, this would give us another class or spec that can possibly use Ranged Weapons as main source of damage , so its a plus.

But there is a better way to call them?Remember, if this has to catter to more races that are not Night elfs and not everyone worshipes the Moon and Huntress its a position only found in the Night elf society.

Other then that, i see no problems.

[Teriz]

You increase necromancy concepts in a class about Death Knights you kill the Death Knight concept.

You have a problem in removing spells from classes but have no problem in revamping them?

Where's ths revamp? The DK is already a necromancer by definition, especially Unholy. How would making UH ranged, put raise dead back in every spec, bring back Lichborne, and and a few other tweaks/summons break the DK concept?

Wow, and by the way, blizzard already do that, Alchemy and Cooking gives stat bonus, something that increases your best stat(or especific) Stat and makes you do Extra Dps.

There's a difference between a stat bonus and a Warrior suddenly being able to do huge amounts of burst damage from ranged outside of his standard ability kit.

[Rosinante]

Paladin it's for a Priest what a Death Knight it's for a Necromancer.
DKs and Necros can coexist.

[Thimagryn]

You increase necromancy concepts in a class about Death Knights you kill the Death Knight concept.

Over time, they allowed Death Knights to summon greater undead units like Abominations. Do you consider the Death Knight concept dead because of that?

[Darktbs]

Over time, they allowed Death Knights to summon greater undead units like Abominations. Do you consider the Death Knight concept dead because of that?

No, because summoning undead is part of both Concepts.

What HE wants its to turn Apocalypse, Festering Strike, Death Strike, Mind Freeze into Range spells for the sake of "Here, your Dk is now ranged so its now a Necromancer", which will only pisse off people that to play Mellee, unbalanced since they would be instant cast with barelly any cost and annoy other ranged since they need to cast and above all, a lazy choice in design.

The Scourge Dks are all Mellee focused with some ranged spells.Thats why they can have Crawling Shadows, Frost Strike, Death Grip, Death coil and so on while their main spells are still mellee, Festering Wounds, Obliterate, Marrowend, Heart Strike, Death Strike and so on.

Edit:Festering Strike

[Otaka]

No, because summoning undead is part of both Concepts.

What HE wants its to turn Apocalypse, Festering Wounds, Death Strike, Mind Freeze into Range spells for the sake of "Here, your Dk is now ranged so its now a Necromancer", which will only pisse off people that to play Mellee, unbalanced since they would be instant cast with barelly any cost and annoy other ranged since they need to cast and above all, a lazy choice in design.

The Scourge Dks are all Mellee focused with some ranged spells.Thats why they can have Crawling Shadows, Frost Strike, Death Grip, Death coil and so on while their main spells are still mellee, Festering Wounds, Obliterate, Marrowend, Heart Strike, Death Strike and so on.

Hunter says hello... currently the only ranged that is mainly instant casts, ive only played marksman as hunter and they only have aimed shot that requires casting. And they used to be pretty much only instant casts a few years ago.

And what would make it not possible for them to change those DK abilities into casted abilities? they changed a dozen healing abilities to require casting aswell.

[Darktbs]

Hunter says hello... currently the only ranged that is mainly instant casts, ive only played marksman as hunter and they only have aimed shot that requires casting. And they used to be pretty much only instant casts a few years ago.

And what would make it not possible for them to change those DK abilities into casted abilities? they changed a dozen healing abilities to require casting aswell.

Aimed shot, their main spell(You also forgot their artifact spell Windburst), thats why its important to MM hunters to control cast time and movement while doing mechanics.Yes, your other damage spells are instant, but what this matters if you do low dps?Its like saying hey, you can be a Range Uh, but forgot that Festering Strike, its still mellee, the spell that makes Apocalypse Work(the spells that allows you to summon hordes of Undead constantly) and spread their main disease.

But thats the thing, for the Hunter to turn in Mellee the Survival the spec got revamped, which he said it wouldn't be the case.If he said that the spec would be revamped in order for that for happen, then yea, its a possibility, since they can go back to their roots in the Wc2 Death Knight, but since he did said that we wouldn't have a revamp, i beg to think otherwise and if he its ok with them being revamped he would be agaisn't his own logic because he bring the argument that players don't like to lose their spells to fit others fantasies, and losing those spells would enrage Uh PLayers.

Edit:Festering Strike

[Teriz]

No, because summoning undead is part of both Concepts.

What HE wants its to turn Apocalypse, Festering Wounds, Death Strike, Mind Freeze into Range spells for the sake of "Here, your Dk is now ranged so its now a Necromancer", which will only pisse off people that to play Mellee, unbalanced since they would be instant cast with barelly any cost and annoy other ranged since they need to cast and above all, a lazy choice in design.

The Scourge Dks are all Mellee focused with some ranged spells.Thats why they can have Crawling Shadows, Frost Strike, Death Grip, Death coil and so on while their main spells are still mellee, Festering Wounds, Obliterate, Marrowend, Heart Strike, Death Strike and so on.

Except Festering Wounds is a debuff, not an ability. Obliterate, Marrowrend, and Heart Strike aren't in the UH spec, and Death Strike can easily be turned into a ranged ability in UH.

In fact, Festering Strike isn't really needed once you talent into Infected Claws. At that point your pet pretty much does Festering Strike for you, and you can significant damage from range, letting your pets handle the melee damage for you.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

[Bas Prime]

Yes, theme and flair that is better served housed within the Warrior class.

Yes a 4th spec of the Warrior (or Rogue for that matter) could become Blademaster. But that would be an imense waste of potential. Then we would have a Warrior using Blademaster abilities. That would be like a Rogue using Demon Hunters Eyebeam, because you gave a 4th Spec (Demon Hunter) to the Rogue. Again, the Warrior is a fighter using one ability of the Blademaster, which is Bladestorm (and critical strike if you count that in a way) There is not much else that works into a Blademaster (or did I forget something? If so, I dont think it will be that much, since I play a Warrior)
Warriors dont look any way near the iconic Blademaster. I managed to get a close look, but still there are missing important things. (https://worldofwarcraft.com/de-de/ch...thrall/baskrik) I am using the Honorable Pennant Toy to get the Flag on my back, and sometimes I hide my shoulder item, depending on my mood. That is the best I could come up with in game.
There is no way of hiding my chest armor, there is no real flag on my back (showing guild crest, or looks like the one Samuro, Mankrik and Ronakada use)
No orb necklace for plate wearers. I have managed to obtain the chest amor of the monk tier set look alike for my rogue (same server, just change baskrik to basrotan). Leather gives some more flexibility since there are more "dresses" and one sided shoulder armors.

You could simply make Wind Walk a level 90 talent, since it is a timed ability that increases move speed unlike the Rogue ability which is permanent, or the Hunter ability that operates like a cooldown and heals.

A talent? So to be a Blademaster I would have to give up my choices in a talent tree? Thats Gladiator Stance all over again. That is not nearly enough. It was nice for the Gladiator spec but that was so underwhelming. To be the Gladiator you gave up the choice and where fixed to one talent. Yes, it worked in a way, but it was limiting the true potential of a Gladiator. I dont want to go in there how a 4th Warrior spec could be a Gladiator, but that would be the right way to do it. At least a whole spec. (and for a Gladiator Warrior that would be fine and enough)
Yes, the Rogue stealth is permanent. Samuro can spec his last talent to be able to stealth all the time (you just have to push the button when it is off cooldown and the Wind Walk wont stop and you would be in stealth all the time). And you are right about hte Hunter ability, but still, its a stealth. Both are stealth and so is the Wind Walk, and Wind Walk is such an iconic thing of the Blademaster, it should be a core mechanic given to the class not picked via a talent choice.

"Blademaster" would be the level 100 talent. Blademaster will be the Mirror Image ability, and it can be made different than the Mage ability via you being able to switch between your images at any given time (the Illusion Master heroic from HotS), and giving you some other benefit (perhaps damage).

I covered my opinion on the talent problem. Illusion Master would be a fitting talent, I agree. But again thats still not enough to give the Blademaster the credit they should have.

But Blademasters ARE Warriors, and so are Mountain Kings. Which is why MKs are entirely rolled into the Warrior class, and the Blademaster could be as well. As you said, they already have Bladestorm.

As would Death Knights be. They are in a way Warriors, but they moved away from that and used their themend/flaired abilities (given to them) to change. Even Rogues are Warriors using just different fighting mechanics. You could also add Survival Hunters to the list if we say Blademasters and Mountain Kings are Warriors (I dont deny that). I just think that there is more to a Blademaster than a 4th spec or two talent choices (or more of them, that would sacrifice more choices)
I mostly bring up the Mountain King for a Blademaster Mirror class, but thats a poor choice by me. I agree with you, Mountain King could just be a transmog set. I sadly have no idea what other class could become a mirror class that is iconic enough.
My work arounds include the 4th spec, a 4th spec only for orc Warriors, just a hero class for orcs (and another fitting hero class for the alliance, Warden with 2 specs, maybe, but that is just something I came up with, no real solution to the problem) and of course both factions get the Blademaster (I also could explain that in lore, 2 ways, 1. Orc and Draenai, 2 most of the races)
I stongly disagree that a Warrior is a Blademaster. A Blademaster might start as a Warrior (or Rogue) and be trained to become a Blademaster. But Blademaster is not the same as a Warrior class wise.

[Deleted]

In fact, Festering Strike isn't really needed once you talent into Infected Claws. At that point your pet pretty much does Festering Strike for you, and you can significant damage from range, letting your pets handle the melee damage for you.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

As long as 50-60% of the normal damage output is considered significant, yes. The moment you actually try to push some dps, the whole idea folds. Last time I checked, UH was a dps spec.

[Teriz]

Yes a 4th spec of the Warrior (or Rogue for that matter) could become Blademaster. But that would be an imense waste of potential. Then we would have a Warrior using Blademaster abilities. That would be like a Rogue using Demon Hunters Eyebeam, because you gave a 4th Spec (Demon Hunter) to the Rogue. Again, the Warrior is a fighter using one ability of the Blademaster, which is Bladestorm (and critical strike if you count that in a way) There is not much else that works into a Blademaster (or did I forget something? If so, I dont think it will be that much, since I play a Warrior)
Warriors dont look any way near the iconic Blademaster. I managed to get a close look, but still there are missing important things. (https://worldofwarcraft.com/de-de/ch...thrall/baskrik) I am using the Honorable Pennant Toy to get the Flag on my back, and sometimes I hide my shoulder item, depending on my mood. That is the best I could come up with in game.
There is no way of hiding my chest armor, there is no real flag on my back (showing guild crest, or looks like the one Samuro, Mankrik and Ronakada use)
No orb necklace for plate wearers. I have managed to obtain the chest amor of the monk tier set look alike for my rogue (same server, just change baskrik to basrotan). Leather gives some more flexibility since there are more "dresses" and one sided shoulder armors.


A talent? So to be a Blademaster I would have to give up my choices in a talent tree? Thats Gladiator Stance all over again. That is not nearly enough. It was nice for the Gladiator spec but that was so underwhelming. To be the Gladiator you gave up the choice and where fixed to one talent. Yes, it worked in a way, but it was limiting the true potential of a Gladiator. I dont want to go in there how a 4th Warrior spec could be a Gladiator, but that would be the right way to do it. At least a whole spec. (and for a Gladiator Warrior that would be fine and enough)
Yes, the Rogue stealth is permanent. Samuro can spec his last talent to be able to stealth all the time (you just have to push the button when it is off cooldown and the Wind Walk wont stop and you would be in stealth all the time). And you are right about hte Hunter ability, but still, its a stealth. Both are stealth and so is the Wind Walk, and Wind Walk is such an iconic thing of the Blademaster, it should be a core mechanic given to the class not picked via a talent choice.


I covered my opinion on the talent problem. Illusion Master would be a fitting talent, I agree. But again thats still not enough to give the Blademaster the credit they should have.


As would Death Knights be. They are in a way Warriors, but they moved away from that and used their themend/flaired abilities (given to them) to change. Even Rogues are Warriors using just different fighting mechanics. You could also add Survival Hunters to the list if we say Blademasters and Mountain Kings are Warriors (I dont deny that). I just think that there is more to a Blademaster than a 4th spec or two talent choices (or more of them, that would sacrifice more choices)
I mostly bring up the Mountain King for a Blademaster Mirror class, but thats a poor choice by me. I agree with you, Mountain King could just be a transmog set. I sadly have no idea what other class could become a mirror class that is iconic enough.
My work arounds include the 4th spec, a 4th spec only for orc Warriors, just a hero class for orcs (and another fitting hero class for the alliance, Warden with 2 specs, maybe, but that is just something I came up with, no real solution to the problem) and of course both factions get the Blademaster (I also could explain that in lore, 2 ways, 1. Orc and Draenai, 2 most of the races)
I stongly disagree that a Warrior is a Blademaster. A Blademaster might start as a Warrior (or Rogue) and be trained to become a Blademaster. But Blademaster is not the same as a Warrior class wise.

I brought up the Mountain King hero to give you an example of how the Blademaster could also be implemented into the Warrior class. In WC3, the Mountain King had Thunderclap, Stun, Storm Bolt, and Avatar. Warriors got Thunderclap in Vanilla WoW, and got the other abilities in later expansions via talents. Now no one requests a Mountain King class, because clearly if you want to be one, all you need to do is pick up the talents. Blademaster should be no different.

I appreciate your passion for the Blademaster concept, but in all seriousness, the Blademaster IS simply a specialized Warrior variant. All it would take is two talents to make Blademaster a reality. If you want to add that banner on their back, simply bring back the War Banners and allow the Warrior to keep it on him so the buff follows him around.

That could also be a talent btw.

So we have Bladestorm, Mirror Image, and Windwalk, and we even have their "look" with the Banner being able to be worn by the player. You got a Blademaster!

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As long as 50-60% of the normal damage output is considered significant, yes. The moment you actually try to push some dps, the whole idea folds. Last time I checked, UH was a dps spec.

FYI, 50-60% of your damage output from 30 yards away is pretty significant for a "melee" DPS.

The point is that Unholy DKs are pretty damn close to being ranged spec right now. It would only require Blizzard to tweak a few more of their abilities.

[Deleted]

FYI, 50-60% of your damage output from 30 yards away is pretty significant for a "melee" DPS.

The point is that Unholy DKs are pretty damn close to being ranged spec right now. It would only require Blizzard to tweak a few more of their abilities.

FYI, doing 50-60% expected dps for your ilvl gets you permabenched in a guild and kicked out of pugs. And rightly so.

Oh and btw, to use a certain construction hopefully familiar to you, Tinker theme and flair is better served housed within the Engineering profession.

Oh wait, I have a better idea, following your very own logic regarding unholy death knights as ranged necromancers and what is better served how: the hunters throwing mechanical traps and shooting explosive arrows around are pretty damn close to being tinkers. If you have them just use the mechanically themed abilities and Engineering profession, you are literally playing a tinker and deal significant damage.

[Teriz]

FYI, doing 50-60% expected dps for your ilvl gets you permabenched in a guild and kicked out of pugs. And rightly so.

You clearly missed my point, so let's try again;

A melee spec doing a significant amount of DPS from ranged shows that there is potential for said DPS to eventually go fully ranged. Clawing Shadows and Infected Claws are actually recommended talents to take, because it makes Scourge Strike a ranged attack, and more easy to apply your Festering Wounds. Infected Claws is recommended because your pet can burst those wounds before you engage the target in melee range. In short, the UH DK is an extremely effective hybrid spec currently and it would only take a few ability tweaks to make the spec fully ranged in a future expansion.

Oh and btw, to use a certain construction hopefully familiar to you, Tinker theme and flair is better served housed within the Engineering profession.

The profession isn't a class, so it wouldn't. We have examples of Goblin and Gnome hero inventors using powerful technology to defeat enemies or fight against the heroes of the game. Clearly the profession is lacking the ability and scope to properly represent that reality to the player.

Oh wait, I have a better idea, following your very own logic regarding unholy death knights as ranged necromancers and what is better served how: the hunters throwing mechanical traps and shooting explosive arrows around are pretty damn close to being tinkers. If you have them just use the mechanically themed abilities and Engineering profession, you are literally playing a tinker and deal significant damage.

Here's the problem with that argument, throwing a trap and shooting an arrow isn't close to being a tinker. That is Hunter territory, and the Hunter isn't an inventor, it's a person of the wilds who befriends animals. The tinker hero from WC3 was able to turn his mechanical backpack into a mech that he could ride in and demolish buildings and enemies, and launch missiles from twin silos on either side of his machine. I highly doubt you'll ever see anything like that in the Hunter class.

However, there's a very good chance you'll see the UH go full ranged in a future expansion, and have an expanded list of undead minions to summon. Being ranged and raising undead pets to help you deal damage fits the Necromancer concept like a glove.