Tomb of Sargeras Progression Thread

[Ebalina]

I like how Blizzard nerfed KJ but there are no changes to Mistress, leaving 700 guilds stuck on that fight.



Thats some nice balance curve. 836 guilds managed to kill Desolate Host and 182 guild killed Mistress which is the next boss. Not to mention that Maiden feels a lot easier than Mistress...

The progression curve is alright, but in some other universe .

[satimy]

Can you guys stop whining in English? The devs for this game are 16 year old Interns in India, the real talent is making more Hots skins for that Mtx monies.

[Deleted]

Yeah, Blizzard's internal team isn't the world's best raiders. Dunno what their ranking would be as a regular guild, but I doubt it would be near Method or Exorsus.

Still, they face a dilemma: they need to test the fights through to make sure there is no fatal bugs there. To be able to test everything in the encounter, they need to be mathematically overpowered for it, which means waaaayyyy higher testing gear than what players have access to, which leaves final numbers tuning into the mercy of estimates and spreadsheets.

I don't see an issue with that.
You can't balance it perfectly around the top 100 players if those 100 players aren't the ones testing it.
The testers Blizzard has are probably around my level of play which is just starting Mythic now, how can they balance things around testers they don't have?


I don't understand this shit method and exorsus are trowing around.
Chill the fuck out. You want to raid 18 hours a day for a month, thats your choice to compete in a race thats not officially hosted by Blizzard.
Why the fuck would they be on call 24/7 then and fix bugs within an hour, work weekends?

Expectations from some people are just fucking stupid.

[Clozer]

I like how Blizzard nerfed KJ but there are no changes to Mistress, leaving 700 guilds stuck on that fight.



Thats some nice balance curve. 836 guilds managed to kill Desolate Host and 182 guild killed Mistress which is the next boss. Not to mention that Maiden feels a lot easier than Mistress...

this "wall" took some guilds less than 40 pulls. the fight can't be outgeared so people have to learn mechanics and timings but it seems most are too bad for that.

[tonic316]

This was only exacerbated by the the abortion that is titanforging.

titan forging is good and fun. Your mother should have aborted you however.

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I don't see an issue with that.
You can't balance it perfectly around the top 100 players if those 100 players aren't the ones testing it.
The testers Blizzard has are probably around my level of play which is just starting Mythic now, how can they balance things around testers they don't have?


I don't understand this shit method and exorsus are trowing around.
Chill the fuck out. You want to raid 18 hours a day for a month, thats your choice to compete in a race thats not officially hosted by Blizzard.
Why the fuck would they be on call 24/7 then and fix bugs within an hour, work weekends?

Expectations from some people are just fucking stupid.

One would think that if they feel like they're being used as pseudo-QA they'd, like, stop giving enough of a shit to grind out 12+ hour days on boss attempts. but they are broken as fuck people so it fits i guess.

Infracted

[Deleted]

this "wall" took some guilds less than 40 pulls. the fight can't be outgeared so people have to learn mechanics and timings but it seems most are too bad for that.

I'll take the bait. I doubt there's 40 pull guilds since the double blood dk strat got fixed. Very brutal fight; we did last week. Compared to where it is in the instance and the dropoff rates it's pretty disheartening for the 5/9 guilds on the realm of which I know well, all of whom were hoping for some letup. Difficulty curve please, not difficulty cliff followed by a pinata after.

[Xjev]

Are KJ nerfs happening this server reset or they are already in effect?

[Clozer]

Are KJ nerfs happening this server reset or they are already in effect?

alpha is getting 6 small arma so it's already in

[Deleted]

I'll take the bait. I doubt there's 40 pull guilds since the double blood dk strat got fixed. Very brutal fight; we did last week. Compared to where it is in the instance and the dropoff rates it's pretty disheartening for the 5/9 guilds on the realm of which I know well, all of whom were hoping for some letup. Difficulty curve please, not difficulty cliff followed by a pinata after.

Is that really important that the hard boss if after the easy boss? You'll have to kill both at one point.

And before someone say "and what if all the hard bosses are at the start and all the easy bosses at the end?", i'm not talking about this extreme situation. I think it's not the end of the world if there is one wall and an easier boss after. It happened ten thousand time already in the history of wow.....

[Xjev]

alpha is getting 6 small arma so it's already in

How has their progress been after nerf? Could they break in the dark phase?

[Clozer]

How has their progress been after nerf? Could they break in the dark phase?

they already did pre nerf

[Deleted]

How has their progress been after nerf? Could they break in the dark phase?

I just tuned in for a while, looks like they are getting worse.

[beelgers]

I just tuned in for a while, looks like they are getting worse.

I would be too after 1500 wipes or whatever it is...

[Deleted]

titan forging is good and fun. Your mother should have aborted you however.

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One would think that if they feel like they're being used as pseudo-QA they'd, like, stop giving enough of a shit to grind out 12+ hour days on boss attempts. but they are broken as fuck people so it fits i guess.

Infracted

It really doesn't matter how they feel about it and the amount of abuse they are swinging around (again) like a bunch of 12 year olds is just pathetic (talking about exorsus here, not the poster I am replying to. Don't infract me because you can't read).
You CAN'T expect a game to be created around 100 players that dedicate a whole month of 18 hours a day raiding to a video game and then getting mad because the dev's aren't online 24/7 fixing everything within hours for a competition they do not sponser.

If Blizzard was actively promoting the "race" and putting something forward to it (a price pool, or whatever) i'd say you are correct.
But expecting a company to just do whatever you want because you decided to put 18 hours a day into this game is just crazy.

[Deleted]

So what exactly is different in Mythic KJ besides more damage, less time to react, more HP?

Seems very underwhelming compared to a lot of other end bosses like Lei Shen, Ragnaros, Imperator.
Every fight can be made hard by tuning, but I just didn´t detect anything awe-inspiring in the mythic version. Even Gul´Dan was more epic.


Also love how they make every mythic last boss a slugfest where staying focused for 15 mins is the hardest thing in the fight. Like they cannot create epicness by other means.

[Deleted]

So what exactly is different in Mythic KJ besides more damage, less time to react, more HP?

Seems very underwhelming compared to a lot of other end bosses like Lei Shen, Ragnaros, Imperator.
Every fight can be made hard by tuning, but I just didn´t detect anything awe-inspiring in the mythic version. Even Gul´Dan was more epic.


Also love how they make every mythic last boss a slugfest where staying focused for 15 mins is the hardest thing in the fight. Like they cannot create epicness by other means.

For Method kill:

-2 Big Armagueddon, 8 small one.
-The Erupting reflection (spawned by DPS) cannot be stacked (they deal way too much damage and heal other reflection nearby when killed). The player that spawned the erupting reflection will emit a lot of little orbs when the his reflection dies. (Those orbs deal a lot of damage and knockup player hit).
-The knockback on the Rupturing singularity is WAY stronger compared to heroic. For example, if the rupturing singularity is in the middle of the room you WILL get knockback out of the platform regardless of where you are standing at the impact (unless you have a blink ofc). So to counter this ability you need to use a new mythic mechanic:
-The tank reflection (that is now present in P1 btw) will put a debuff on the tank after it dies. This debuff last forever or until dispell, and when you dispell it ALL the raid is pulled towards the tank (basically a friendly mass grip). So you need to dispell the debuff at the right time to counter the big middle knockback (it's pretty impressive when pulled off).

For first intermission: no ability changes from heroic, but you have WAY more Rupturing singularity dropping (like sometimes 3-4 in quick succession). So basically all the raid is getting bounced around (remember the knockback is brutal).

P2: all the abilities of P1 + big beam and bursting flames.
-New mythic mechanic is the healer reflection. All the healer spawn a friendly add that can be heal up. After a while each add deals raid wide damage and spawn a void pull under them (that deal ticking damage and silence everyone in it). The damage and size of the pool depends of how much health the adds have (you basically need to heal them to full).

Second intermission: Singularity in dark phase.

P3: -The demonic obelisk deals WAY more damage (around 15million according to dungeon journal). So it's basically a one shot if you get it and you don't have an immunity. First spawn was 5 obelisk (and one more after each of them). They had 8 on the last one.
-The tear rift has a "HP bar", you cannot all go and hide in it.
-The flaming orb is bigger and requires to be quite for a longer period.


And of course, the fight has some nasty overlaps that did not exist in heroic.
M Guldan P2 had exactly the same ability has in heroic, though the phase was so much harder and the hardest phase in the encounter (way more than the "secret hype" phase).

[Immortal]

I like how Blizzard nerfed KJ but there are no changes to Mistress, leaving 700 guilds stuck on that fight.



Thats some nice balance curve. 836 guilds managed to kill Desolate Host and 182 guild killed Mistress which is the next boss. Not to mention that Maiden feels a lot easier than Mistress...

Well, it's has been less than a month and the boss is killed by almost 200 guilds, that's far from overtuned I'd say. The expectation that some 100+ ranked guild should easily kill highest diffuclty bosses without overgearing them sounds quite strange to me. The original idea behind making multiple difficulties was to make challenging bosses and not nerf them quickly, because people who can't overcome them can still see the content in easier difficulties.

[zyniker]

Yeah, Blizzard's internal team isn't the world's best raiders. Dunno what their ranking would be as a regular guild, but I doubt it would be near Method or Exorsus.

Still, they face a dilemma: they need to test the fights through to make sure there is no fatal bugs there. To be able to test everything in the encounter, they need to be mathematically overpowered for it, which means waaaayyyy higher testing gear than what players have access to, which leaves final numbers tuning into the mercy of estimates and spreadsheets.

They were using a decent chunk of Nurfed for internal QA at least as recently as Nighthold, not sure if that was the case for ToS. But there's some pretty major behind the scenes problems with internal QA not just on the encounter design front.

[jce4ever]

alpha is getting 6 small arma so it's already in

BS stop lying anyone can open up twitch and watch them getting 8 not 6 yet. Patch has not gone live in china yet will probably be on there reset day on Thursday.

[Deleted]

I literally bought sell runs for these prices and know a couple of people who also have - my provider has 2 runs going every week with 3 or more buyers and he is just one of hundreds of sellers - what are you even on about ?

But still way way way way more supply than demand. If we would combine all the offerings together, we would have capacities for over thousand real money sellrun slots per month in EU+US.