Anti Immigration but Not Racist

[TZucchini]

You ignored it the first time around, so I'll say it again:

"Immigrants constitute 15% of the general U.S. workforce, but they account for around a quarter of U.S. entrepreneurs."

[Deleted]

There was no raise in violence in the german society from immigration. And there is no higher "rape rate" as well.

Of course there is. Hopefully the Zeit is left-wing enough for you to trust:
http://www.zeit.de/2017/17/kriminali...aten-statistik

If you want to invoke the cologne event, there actually had been more sexual offenses at oktoberfest.

And that is wrong as well. Please research more thorough (the source is not quite as left-wing as the Zeit, but the linked sources are publications by the police so they should be trustworthy):
http://blogs.faz.net/deus/2017/02/21...er-focus-4164/

[Venant]

I'm sure American immigration into the developing world would be beneficial to economic and cultural evolution of those poorer countries .

It didn't work out so well when a few hundred thousand immigrated to Iraq a few years ago.

[nanook12]

No, i just show how ridiculous your claims are, as you cant back them up.

I actually have proofs the german economy still works like a charm even after we took hundreds of thousands of people.

America is a country with many untouched regions, where there are not even people. The United States of America are the richest country in the world.

And still you believe some immigrants could steal your pennies? While your country is made from immigration?

This is a common fallacy. People say that "because our country was made from immigrants, we have to accept more. That we should always have our door open." Well this in an appeal to emotion. Maybe I am cold hearted, but I tend to side with logic over emotional appeals. Logic says that regardless if we are a country built by immigrants, there are simply too many of them at the moment.

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Seeing as America has an abundance of open jobs, I have no idea where you are getting the whole not enough resources shit from.

An abundance of jobs that pay well below the poverty line due to an over supply of workers that suppresses wage growth.

[Machismo]

If it's purely about numbers, then the United States can certainly handle a lot more immigrants. It does have limited resources, but they are not stretched thin enough to stem the flow. The market can easily handle millions more immigrants, and not just high-skilled ones.

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This is a common fallacy. People say that "because our country was made from immigrants, we have to accept more. That we should always have our door open." Well this in an appeal to emotion. Maybe I am cold hearted, but I tend to side with logic over emotional appeals. Logic says that regardless if we are a country built by immigrants, there are simply too many of them at the moment.

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An abundance of jobs that pay well below the poverty line due to an over supply of workers that suppresses wage growth.

There are not too many of them right now. We can handle more, the market is not actually saturated with the influx of labor and consumer power. Now, if you can show that there are too many people, or that there's not enough resources, then I'm all ears.

[Citizen T]

Immigrants are twice as likely to start a business - than US born citizens.

While I actually believe this statement, do you have any sources to back it up?

[nanook12]

Source? Bring in more people, demand rises, job availability adjusts.

Read above. I already discussed this. Immigrants lead to a net loss of jobs in the long term as they do not immigrants do not increase demand at a 1:1 correspondence ratio.

[Pengekaer]

Lol? You realize that the USA is far less populated than any other G20 state (maybe except Canada). Germany for example has 8 times the population density. Immigrants don't only occupy jobs, they create jobs as well. They have to eat, live somewhere, need medical services, need transportatin etc. pp. It's not as easy as you think it is.

Yes, but immigrants have to contribute as well. It's not enough they create demand for services, they have to help supply them as well.
This is what has gone so terribly wrong in Europe. So many immigrants demanding, and so few helping to provide.
I don't doubt a large influx of migrants can boost the economy short term (who does that?) as it props up the housing market and creates demands the welfare state has to supply. More potatoes will be purchased.. after all. But from that to concluding that its viable long-term strategy from an economic standpoint? Madness. Ask the french or the belgians. They had and still have welfare states with good educations available to those who want, but many ME and NA migrants refuse the offer. Same in Denmark and Sweden. In Belgium and France where the ghettorization is at it's worst nobody prevented the immigrants from getting a better life through work and education. They just didn't care to. . That's why chinese and indians do well in Europe, they also have a different skin-color, but as should be common sense, that doesn't matter in a meritocratic market economy like the European one. Employers hire the best qualified people regardless of skin-color (contrary to what lefties say), in my experience at least. They do this because they care for their business.

But tbh, it's not economy I want to talk about. It's that I think middle eastern men at large (not all, no.. ok?) are hostile, rude and frankly don't deserve to live in a civilized country. Just the other day, one of them nearly ran me over on my bike and they even had the insolence to give me the middle finger? Like, fuck them. Utterly. And stuff like that happens all the time where I live (i live in a place called Amager, on the edge of a Ghetto). And you know what? No native danes behave like this. And certainly not in the numbers that I see immigrants do.
Good, now I've said it. Believe me or don't, I don't give a crap. That's the situation here. You can infract me or try to ridicule me all you like, this is how I observe the situation here.

I also see the change in the narrative from journalists and officials. In the late 90s and early 2000s, the narrative was that middle eastern migration was good, a joyful event a to be embraced by society: we should all enjoy the influx of fresh culture and able-bodied young men.
That narrative is now gone. Today, it mainly boils down to "immigration cannot be avoided, so just accept it" even though that is a flat-out lie. Ask Japan or SK how they keep their borders safe lol.

Now that I have said all this, I will shed some positive light on immigration as well. The vietnamese, iranians, sri lankians, chinese and indians have low crime rates according to official Danish statistics and also educate themselves and contribute (in fact, some of these groups slightly more than native danes).
So immigration cannot be simplified to just "immigration". There's destructive and constructive immigration. Middle Eastern immigration mostly the former.

Rant over.
Hope you enjoyed.

[kail]

Read above. I already discussed this. Immigrants lead to a net loss of jobs in the long term as they do not immigrants do not increase demand at a 1:1 correspondence ratio.

You have yet to provide a source. Is there a magical number that the U.S. should maintain? Should we start to promote more emigration, have less people in our country if we are so full?

[nanook12]

You have yet to provide a source.

Ask and you shall receive.
https://cis.org/Every-New-Job-Two-New-Immigrants

[TZucchini]

While I actually believe this statement, do you have any sources to back it up?

I believe this is the original study: http://www.kauffman.org/what-we-do/r...-entrepreneurs

[Taso]

I'm pro immigration but anti illegal. You can come here and enrich our society but you have to follow the procedures. If Half of my relatives can wait ten years under a communist leadership so can everyone else.

[Rooflesstoofless]

Calling someone racist based on their immigration stance is boarderline retarded.

Mexicans, Muslims, Canadians, etc aren't a race and we should be able to disqualify anyone from coming to the US if they aren't going to be a good fit for society.

[Allybeboba]

Immigrants are twice as likely to start a business - than US born citizens.

Not doubting your statement. And I am not even going ask for a source. Is this people that migrated to the US or their children?
Also don't migrants get special loans and grants for starting businesses? Hell, they don't even have a SSN. How can they get a bank account? A US citizen can't open an account without a SSN.

At any rate, I personally am all for LEGAL immigration. Diversity is one our greatest strengths. It can also be one of our greatest weaknesses if we let a few people let it be.

[Deleted]

Of course there is. Hopefully the Zeit is left-wing enough for you to trust:
http://www.zeit.de/2017/17/kriminali...aten-statistik

You obviously forgot to read the complete article:

Doch diese absoluten Zahlen, sosehr sie auch beunruhigen mögen, sind nur bedingt aussagekräftig. Man muss sie ins Verhältnis zur Gesamtzahl der Zuwanderer aus dem jeweiligen Herkunftsland setzen, dann relativieren sie sich. Im Ergebnis bilanzieren fast alle Bundesländer: Flüchtlinge und Asylbewerber aus Syrien, Afghanistan und dem Irak werden seltener straffällig als solche aus anderen Herkunftsländern. Gemessen an ihren viel kleineren Gesamtzahlen geraten Zuwanderer aus den nordafrikanischen Maghreb-Staaten und aus einer Reihe von afrikanischen Staaten südlich der Sahara weit häufiger mit dem Gesetz in Konflikt.

And that is wrong as well. Please research more thorough (the source is not quite as left-wing as the Zeit, but the linked sources are publications by the police so they should be trustworthy):
http://blogs.faz.net/deus/2017/02/21...er-focus-4164/

The FAZ just took the TAZ article out of context. The TAZ answered to the FAZ idea, it would have been "fake news":

http://www.taz.de/!5271854/

So no, actually it is not wrong that the total number of sexual incidents at oktoberfest is even bigger than the number of incidents in the cologne desaster.

And the colone desaster actually never was repeated. While sexual assaults on Oktoberfest happen every year.

[nanook12]

I'm pro immigration but anti illegal. You can come here and enrich our society but you have to follow the procedures. If Half of my relatives can wait ten years under a communist leadership so can everyone else.

Combined that ideology with smart immigration policies depending on what type of workers we need or need less of at the moment, and I am on board with you.

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Calling someone racist based on their immigration stance is boarderline retarded.

Mexicans, Muslims, Canadians, etc aren't a race and we should be able to disqualify anyone from coming to the US if they aren't going to be a good fit for society.

I agree, but it happens a lot.

[McFuu]

This is a common fallacy. People say that "because our country was made from immigrants, we have to accept more. That we should always have our door open." Well this in an appeal to emotion. Maybe I am cold hearted, but I tend to side with logic over emotional appeals. Logic says that regardless if we are a country built by immigrants, there are simply too many of them at the moment.

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An abundance of jobs that pay well below the poverty line due to an over supply of workers that suppresses wage growth.

Any kind of sources to back that up? Generally the jobs that you are speaking get filled by immigrants because the job growth for them is expanded by the influence of immigrants. Which isn't an issue.
They only time when immigration wouldn't create growth would be when we reach a breaking point on efficiency. Basically robotics.

[Machismo]

Ask and you shall receive.
https://cis.org/Every-New-Job-Two-New-Immigrants

By that article, we should also stop people from procreating, since the natural population growth also leads to a decreased labor force participation rate (which is not actually a bad thing).

[Elegiac]

I'm pro immigration but anti illegal. You can come here and enrich our society but you have to follow the procedures. If Half of my relatives can wait ten years under a communist leadership so can everyone else.

America's immigration procedures are stupid, and I say this as a naturalised citizen.

[Machismo]

Combined that ideology with smart immigration policies depending on what type of workers we need or need less of at the moment, and I am on board with you.

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I agree, but it happens a lot.

That's a pretty strong limitation of freedom. You may as well assign everyone a list of jobs they are allowed to do at birth.

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Calling someone racist based on their immigration stance is boarderline retarded.

Mexicans, Muslims, Canadians, etc aren't a race and we should be able to disqualify anyone from coming to the US if they aren't going to be a good fit for society.

Then just call then xenophobes, problem solved.