Do you think a stat squish is needed?

[Jazzhands]

Squish happened in 6.0 but the numbers issue wasn't fixed til 7.0, i.e., Legion. And squishing does hurt things, its developer time that could be better spent elswhere, it fucks with low level leveling and stats, it's just a pain to get "nerfed" even if it only feels that way for a week.

There's really no reason to do it either, if you don't like seeing 100,000,000 there's ways to make it 100M, hell they would probably even put it in the base game if they haven't already.

I stand corrected, however excessive numbers simply aren't fun, and with how things grow exponential over time, it just becomes more and more of a problem. The results of this poll seem to be aligned with my belief that most people don't like huge numbers, just big ones, and it's worth feeling "nerfed" (I don't, it's all relative) for a short time.

And with how things are at lower levels, they won't need to tweak the over all numbers, just this current expansion. The curve right now is really odd, near the end of WoD while leveling you're doing like, maybe 10k? then you hit 110, and you're rocking 800k to over 1.5 mil depending on the fight.

[Onikaroshi]

Whatever way we go about it, inflating stats just to get bigger numbers endless is clearly not the way to go, as proven by the state of the game.

What state of the game? Just because you do 1 million dps and the boss has 5 billion hp doesn't make it a bad thing, it's all relative, there's no point putting development time into fixing a problem that doesn't exist.

[varren]

Don't really care, numbers are numbers. The high ilvl scaling has been around since wrath and will continue to exist so long as we have multiple raid difficulties, which aren't going away any time soon (if ever).

[Traveler Voltin]

There is already one coming after legion.

[Voidism]

Well, last time it was to do with 32 bit integer overflow for health pools.

How much health does Mythic Kil'jaeden have ?

He's got 10 billion health on mythic difficulty.

[Onikaroshi]

I stand corrected, however excessive numbers simply aren't fun, and with how things grow exponential over time, it just becomes more and more of a problem. The results of this poll seem to be aligned with my belief that most people don't like huge numbers, just big ones, and it's worth feeling "nerfed" (I don't, it's all relative) for a short time.

And with how things are at lower levels, they won't need to tweak the over all numbers, just this current expansion. The curve right now is really odd, near the end of WoD while leveling you're doing like, maybe 10k? then you hit 110, and you're rocking 800k to over 1.5 mil depending on the fight.

"Because some people want it" isn't really an argument to pour development time into something that's not required though. And excessive numbers simply aren't fun "for you", you can have your opinion but don't try to project it elsewhere.

Really though, our little conversation here doesn't matter, Blizz hasn't talked about squishing in years. If they feel its needed they will; right now, systematically, its not. I highly doubt they'll put effort into a non-required system when there's new system to develop and other, more important, systems to improve upon. In the end it's up to Blizz and I think they'll err on the side of waiting to squish.

[Jazzhands]

No, the number scaling at lower levels is already fucked, more squishes will make it even worse. There's nothing wrong with big numbers.

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Any proof / source?

They wouldn't need to tweak numbers in lower levels, they already fixed the power spikes, which was the intent of the squish in general. WoD>Legion is now a huge spike in everything compared to WoD, so they'd only need to level out this expansion.

[Onikaroshi]

No, the number scaling at lower levels is already fucked, more squishes will make it even worse. There's nothing wrong with big numbers.

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Any proof / source?

The "source" is from years ago either before or right around Legion announcement, its moot at this point because it was prior to them fixing the the 32 bit issue.

[huth]

And with how things are at lower levels, they won't need to tweak the over all numbers, just this current expansion. The curve right now is really odd, near the end of WoD while leveling you're doing like, maybe 10k? then you hit 110, and you're rocking 800k to over 1.5 mil depending on the fight.

You're comparing a really bad player in crap WoD gear to a good one in top-of-the-line Legion gear there. And it was closer to 100k in WoD even then.

[Traveler Voltin]

The "source" is from years ago either before or right around Legion announcement, its moot at this point because it was prior to them fixing the the 32 bit issue.

It was confirmed after the so called fix

[schwarzkopf]

He's got 10 billion health on mythic difficulty.

Then it seems they have got around that technical hurdle either in WoD or Legion patching. The pre-squish limit was 2 billion due to uint32 overflow.

[Polarthief]

I voted yes, but it's not too critical if you ask me.

Numbers are number.. The way you parse them is not important to me.

Except the whole lag issue across like a hundred or so servers using 6-9 digit numbers instead 4-6 digit numbers, also bosses with almost 5b health is getting a bit ridiculous.

I do like the real progression feel instead of permanently being in a vacuum and never extending to the 10b stage, but the cons outweigh the pros if we just keep letting numbers get higher.

Or, y'know, Blizzard could upgrade the server blades and stop spilling coffee on them.

[Jazzhands]

"Because some people want it" isn't really an argument to pour development time into something that's not required though. And excessive numbers simply aren't fun "for you", you can have your opinion but don't try to project it elsewhere.

Really though, our little conversation here doesn't matter, Blizz hasn't talked about squishing in years. If they feel its needed they will; right now, systematically, its not. I highly doubt they'll put effort into a non-required system when there's new system to develop and other, more important, systems to improve upon. In the end it's up to Blizz and I think they'll err on the side of waiting to squish.

Stating my opinion isn't projecting. And I also pointed out how the poll is very in favor of a squish, so it's fair to say most people don't like excessive numbers anyways. As for development time and such, no one knows how long this kind of thing takes or what teams do it, so it's really just a straw man people need to stop using.

I also think they mentioned they are probably doing another squish after Legion, but thanks to my previous blunder, I'm going to confirm this before I really state it.

[Polarthief]

Then it seems they have got around that technical hurdle either in WoD or Legion patching. The pre-squish limit was 2 billion due to uint32 overflow.

Doesn't mean they should keep it since it's taxing on performance, unless they get around that problem as well.

I just think it's funny they said the original squish would probably fix the problem for "many years to come", and now we're already higher than MoP numbers just 2 expansions later.

[Zyrosis]

I'd have said yes till last week when I changed a setting on Miks scrolling battle text so that for example 300,000 was displaced as 300k and 2,000,000 was displayed as 2M. Previously I couldn't even read / register the numbers in my head fast enough before they scrolled off screen and so I basically had no idea how much an attack was doing without checking damage meters after combat.

Only problem with the way Miks does that is 1.55M will be rounded up to 2M which is by no means accurate. It would've been better if it did 3 numbers no matter the value and just adjust the placement of the decimal, so 1.55M rather than 2M. Parrot does that, but some features that Mik has parrot lacks, namely audio cues.

[huth]

Except the whole lag issue across like a hundred or so servers using 6-9 digit numbers instead 4-6 digit numbers, also bosses with almost 5b health is getting a bit ridiculous.

In either case it's a 64bit variable. Number of events is a much bigger issue, and why they actually made some spells tick less frequently.

[Rotted]

I honestly don't give a fuck if I see per hit 300, 3000, 30000, 300000, 30000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

numbers be numbers,

[MoanaLisa]

Not needed, no. It's something they'll do if they think they need to.

I'm not convinced that this is anything that needs to be "fixed". Number of digits has nothing to do with lag. Numbers/variables represented internally in the server/client will have the same byte structure.

[Jazzhands]

You're comparing a really bad player in crap WoD gear to a good one in top-of-the-line Legion gear there. And it was closer to 100k in WoD even then.

I think you misunderstood me. We don't do WoD raids anymore, while leveling you don't stop at 100 and do the raids for weeks to get gear to hop into Legion, you skip them and go right to Legion. Smoothing out power spikes was one of the main reason for the initial squish, and 10k->800k is a huge spike.

Also, 800k+ DPS isn't top of the line. My 918 mage (Mostly ToS normal gear, a few heroic pieces) does almost that ST as fire, a spec with really bad ST. On fights like mistress I can hit up to 1.4 mil depending on how long adds are up and RNG. Mythic geared players on a fight like Mistress are doing 2.5-3 million, and on a ST fight like Goroth or Sisters, 1.3-1.5 mil, so I could easily make the spike even larger, but I wanted to stay reasonable and use numbers closer to what most people are accomplishing.

[Fight4Fun]

we need a massive stat dump, like 5k hp top tier tank, and 1k hp massive crit.

seeing owersized numbers of numbers not healthy for fantasy game