Legion is unfriendly to returning players from previous expansions

[Klingers]

Little background on myself for context: I've been playing Warcraft games since 1996 and became a fan of the lore since I first opened the Warcraft 2 manual when I was 13. I missed launch but I started playing WoW in February 2005. Like many of us old-schoolers I was fairly hardcore playing with friends right up through Wrath, then started falling into a more casual playstyle during Cata-onwards with long breaks as content dried up.

I was disgusted with Warlords. Disgusted. Lazy, bad expansion. We all know that. Nothing new to say. On paper I love to see what's happened with Legion. Regular content updates, something for everyone, a return to dungeons, more raids, better world content in patches, MORE patches, a seemingly-infinite flow of new stuff to do. Shame it's too grindy.

Legion has WAY too much time-gating. Way too many single-expansion timesinks. Too many bars to fill. Too many Arbitrary Magic Fun Points to grind. Not enough things carried between characters or specs.

As an example: I'm someone who loves Story. I would love to complete the zones, unlock my flying, hit all the dungeons and do Suramar, hit LFR and get the story for all the raids and do the broken shore. Unfortunately I'd also have to get my artifact traits, click on mission tables, wait for timers to count down and daily limits on quest content to unlock. These things aren't fun. They get in the way of fun. And that's a shame.

If you made it through my wall of text do tell me, am I alone? Or is the barrier to entry just too high at this point? Should a grumpy old bastard like myself that spends too much time in front of a computer for work all day maybe just give up and move on?

[alemaite]

Little background on myself for context: I've been playing Warcraft games since 1996 and became a fan of the lore since I first opened the Warcraft 2 manual when I was 13. I missed launch but I started playing WoW in February 2005. Like many of us old-schoolers I was fairly hardcore playing with friends right up through Wrath, then started falling into a more casual playstyle during Cata-onwards with long breaks as content dried up.

I was disgusted with Warlords. Disgusted. Lazy, bad expansion. We all know that. Nothing new to say. On paper I love to see what's happened with Legion. Regular content updates, something for everyone, a return to dungeons, more raids, better world content in patches, MORE patches, a seemingly-infinite flow of new stuff to do. Shame it's too grindy.

Legion has WAY too much time-gating. Way too many single-expansion timesinks. Too many bars to fill. Too many Arbitrary Magic Fun Points to grind. Not enough things carried between characters or specs.

As an example: I'm someone who loves Story. I would love to complete the zones, unlock my flying, hit all the dungeons and do Suramar, hit LFR and get the story for all the raids and do the broken shore. Unfortunately I'd also have to get my artifact traits, click on mission tables, wait for timers to count down and daily limits on quest content to unlock. These things aren't fun. They get in the way of fun. And that's a shame.

If you made it through my wall of text do tell me, am I alone? Or is the barrier to entry just too high at this point? Should a grumpy old bastard like myself that spends too much time in front of a computer for work all day maybe just give up and move on?

You're not alone. As someone who studies and has a job, I just can't see how I can keep up, so I quit. Even though the expansion is really fun, it's too time consuming for me.

[kamuimac]

Little background on myself for context: I've been playing Warcraft games since 1996 and became a fan of the lore since I first opened the Warcraft 2 manual when I was 13. I missed launch but I started playing WoW in February 2005. Like many of us old-schoolers I was fairly hardcore playing with friends right up through Wrath, then started falling into a more casual playstyle during Cata-onwards with long breaks as content dried up.

I was disgusted with Warlords. Disgusted. Lazy, bad expansion. We all know that. Nothing new to say. On paper I love to see what's happened with Legion. Regular content updates, something for everyone, a return to dungeons, more raids, better world content in patches, MORE patches, a seemingly-infinite flow of new stuff to do. Shame it's too grindy.

Legion has WAY too much time-gating. Way too many single-expansion timesinks. Too many bars to fill. Too many Arbitrary Magic Fun Points to grind. Not enough things carried between characters or specs.

As an example: I'm someone who loves Story. I would love to complete the zones, unlock my flying, hit all the dungeons and do Suramar, hit LFR and get the story for all the raids and do the broken shore. Unfortunately I'd also have to get my artifact traits, click on mission tables, wait for timers to count down and daily limits on quest content to unlock. These things aren't fun. They get in the way of fun. And that's a shame.

If you made it through my wall of text do tell me, am I alone? Or is the barrier to entry just too high at this point? Should a grumpy old bastard like myself that spends too much time in front of a computer for work all day maybe just give up and move on?

i cant stop laughing when anyone claims to play vanilla/tbc and claims to not have had a problem to grind all the shit in vanilla yet minimal farm in legion is suddenly problem for him - i wonder how you farmed resist gear back then if farming ap is too much .

[ls-]

i cant stop laughing when anyone claims to play vanilla/tbc and claims to not have had a problem to grind all the shit in vanilla yet minimal farm in legion is suddenly problem for him - i wonder how you farmed resist gear back then if farming ap is too much .

I rarely agree w/ you, but, mate, what you've just said is so true, I'd even upvote your comment if we had +/- here on MMOC

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

There are many stupid time sinks in Legion that are too much of a time sink, but what exactly is keeping you from doing the things you mentioned you wanted to do?
I hit level 110 on my hunter and warlock alts 3-4 days ago or so and I've already almost caught up to my main when it comes to artifact traits.

The Suramar and Broken Shore storylines should be doable without having to wait much.

What exactly is in your way?
The only thing I can think of is that quest where you need to collect quest items from heroic dungeons. You need 40 and can only get max 20 a week, so you will have to wait 1 week and 1 day to get it done.

[Eon Drache]

Literally no issue at all getting an alt caught up or returning account. The AP is so fast now that you can have a character maxed out with minimal effort in a week. The only grind is Concordance and no one is farming it because of how small an upgrade it is for too much work. So once you get to 52 on your weapon you're basically caught up.

[Flaks]

i cant stop laughing when anyone claims to play vanilla/tbc and claims to not have had a problem to grind all the shit in vanilla yet minimal farm in legion is suddenly problem for him - i wonder how you farmed resist gear back then if farming ap is too much .

We were younger with a lot less responsibilities.

The game now is all of a sudden almost as grindy as tbc was (vanilla was still worse) while all the expansions between now and tbc kept catering towards an aging population with less time to give like me. It's a very jarring change despite the game being the best it's been in years.

[Cyram]

But the time gates are over, though.
You don't get a quest weekly, and the only thing that is sort of gated is the Suramar campaign, by reputation, which is something that has been in the game since... well, Vanilla.

[Ferrair]

Difference in grinding in vanilla and Legion.

Grinding in vanilla was a goal. I grinded UBRS for the mage chest, i never got it after running it a million times but it was a set path towards a goal. I grinded Guardian of Cenarius rep in sillythus, it was a loooong grind, but there's a clear path towards that goal.

Grinding in Legion is stupid and all the Diablo devs in the WOW team as well as in the Diablo dept should just be fired, that's how much i hate those morons. You want that legendary bracer/shoulder/ring? Well... do the content for that RNG chance to get that RNG legendary. You want that BIS piece from Neth Lair? Well.. grind +10 for that RNG weekly and pray for that RNG Titanforged+socket. Maybe you'll get that RNG Titanforged BIS relic, maybe you won't get diddly squat.

I could go on but that's the gist of grinding in Legion, not to mention that time gates. Yeah, let me level that Paladin to 110 real quick but cock block me for 1 week to get my 3rd relic. I would sure love to do the Suramar quests for the sweet sweet AP after the AK boost from my main but NOPE! Cock block the quest lines and force me to grind rep for something i already saw.

RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG + Time gate, good stuff Diablo guys.

People want a diablo MMO when it's already here :/

[noladrew]

Little background on myself for context: I've been playing Warcraft games since 1996 and became a fan of the lore since I first opened the Warcraft 2 manual when I was 13. I missed launch but I started playing WoW in February 2005. Like many of us old-schoolers I was fairly hardcore playing with friends right up through Wrath, then started falling into a more casual playstyle during Cata-onwards with long breaks as content dried up.

I was disgusted with Warlords. Disgusted. Lazy, bad expansion. We all know that. Nothing new to say. On paper I love to see what's happened with Legion. Regular content updates, something for everyone, a return to dungeons, more raids, better world content in patches, MORE patches, a seemingly-infinite flow of new stuff to do. Shame it's too grindy.

Legion has WAY too much time-gating. Way too many single-expansion timesinks. Too many bars to fill. Too many Arbitrary Magic Fun Points to grind. Not enough things carried between characters or specs.

As an example: I'm someone who loves Story. I would love to complete the zones, unlock my flying, hit all the dungeons and do Suramar, hit LFR and get the story for all the raids and do the broken shore. Unfortunately I'd also have to get my artifact traits, click on mission tables, wait for timers to count down and daily limits on quest content to unlock. These things aren't fun. They get in the way of fun. And that's a shame.

If you made it through my wall of text do tell me, am I alone? Or is the barrier to entry just too high at this point? Should a grumpy old bastard like myself that spends too much time in front of a computer for work all day maybe just give up and move on?

The barrier is you. Vanilla and TBC had as much or more of a grind and gate than Legion does. By a long mile. To get the bare minimum done; see the quest content and get into LFR.... It really doesn't take that much effort, at all. There are very few gates in this path. The game does take some amount of effort to gain any kind of reward, and if you cant put in that minimal amount of effort for the content you seek, then you need to find a different game. This game is more accessible than it has ever been at a casual level. The only hurdle is you.

[Kendevis]

Simply, Wow is old. And we are getting old with it.
In 2005-2006 we were able to farm and we had a lot of time. Now life goes on, we have a family now, a job, and we have not the same amount of time as we used to. Nothing is wrong with Wow now. The problem is the amount of time we can spend on it.

[shadowmatrix]

Legion has WAY too much time-gating. Way too many single-expansion timesinks. Too many bars to fill. Too many Arbitrary Magic Fun Points to grind. Not enough things carried between characters or specs.

As an example: I'm someone who loves Story. I would love to complete the zones, unlock my flying, hit all the dungeons and do Suramar, hit LFR and get the story for all the raids and do the broken shore. Unfortunately I'd also have to get my artifact traits, click on mission tables, wait for timers to count down and daily limits on quest content to unlock. These things aren't fun. They get in the way of fun. And that's a shame.

If you made it through my wall of text do tell me, am I alone? Or is the barrier to entry just too high at this point? Should a grumpy old bastard like myself that spends too much time in front of a computer for work all day maybe just give up and move on?

Too many bars, reps have been in the game since the beginning so you have no excuse to be upset over them.

Too many Magic Fun Points, you have arcane knowledge and arcane power. What are the others I missed?

Not enough things carried between characters and specs, arcane knowledge can be shared which means you can be almost caught up in 2-4 ap tokens. Toys, mounts, main gear armor models for transmog, and battle pets are all account bound.

I would love to complete zones, then do so. Not a single zone requires ap or ak to my knowledge. Suramar has rep gates but with world quests that doesn't take long. Everything else you mentioned is just extra. It comes up in the class quest storyline but it never hinders you from playing.

The barrier to entry right now is incredibly low and is no where near as grindy as it was in the past. In the past we got rep tabards to catch up, this time we get books that take us straight to the cap if we have unlocked it. Broken shore has vendors that sell high level gear. Need gear and ap, then grind mythic plus dungeons, do LFR, do world quests, do your order hall, there are too many ways to progress to complain about catching up.

[Super Kami Dende]

Little background on myself for context: I've been playing Warcraft games since 1996 and became a fan of the lore since I first opened the Warcraft 2 manual when I was 13. I missed launch but I started playing WoW in February 2005. Like many of us old-schoolers I was fairly hardcore playing with friends right up through Wrath, then started falling into a more casual playstyle during Cata-onwards with long breaks as content dried up.

I was disgusted with Warlords. Disgusted. Lazy, bad expansion. We all know that. Nothing new to say. On paper I love to see what's happened with Legion. Regular content updates, something for everyone, a return to dungeons, more raids, better world content in patches, MORE patches, a seemingly-infinite flow of new stuff to do. Shame it's too grindy.

Legion has WAY too much time-gating. Way too many single-expansion timesinks. Too many bars to fill. Too many Arbitrary Magic Fun Points to grind. Not enough things carried between characters or specs.

As an example: I'm someone who loves Story. I would love to complete the zones, unlock my flying, hit all the dungeons and do Suramar, hit LFR and get the story for all the raids and do the broken shore. Unfortunately I'd also have to get my artifact traits, click on mission tables, wait for timers to count down and daily limits on quest content to unlock. These things aren't fun. They get in the way of fun. And that's a shame.

If you made it through my wall of text do tell me, am I alone? Or is the barrier to entry just too high at this point? Should a grumpy old bastard like myself that spends too much time in front of a computer for work all day maybe just give up and move on?

You are alone in this.

Well.. not really, I'm sure there are plenty of other people that think Legion somehow has this super high barrier to be able to catch up. But like you they would just be complaining for the sake of it, since you can get a character from level 1-raid ready within 3 weeks of Casual play.

- - - Updated - - -

Difference in grinding in vanilla and Legion.

Grinding in vanilla was a goal. I grinded UBRS for the mage chest, i never got it after running it a million times but it was a set path towards a goal. I grinded Guardian of Cenarius rep in sillythus, it was a loooong grind, but there's a clear path towards that goal.

Grinding in Legion is stupid and all the Diablo devs in the WOW team as well as in the Diablo dept should just be fired, that's how much i hate those morons. You want that legendary bracer/shoulder/ring? Well... do the content for that RNG chance to get that RNG legendary. You want that BIS piece from Neth Lair? Well.. grind +10 for that RNG weekly and pray for that RNG Titanforged+socket. Maybe you'll get that RNG Titanforged BIS relic, maybe you won't get diddly squat.

I could go on but that's the gist of grinding in Legion, not to mention that time gates. Yeah, let me level that Paladin to 110 real quick but cock block me for 1 week to get my 3rd relic. I would sure love to do the Suramar quests for the sweet sweet AP after the AK boost from my main but NOPE! Cock block the quest lines and force me to grind rep for something i already saw.

RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG + Time gate, good stuff Diablo guys.

People want a diablo MMO when it's already here :/

If grinding doesn't have a goal in Legion, then that means you aren't grinding... Also the 3rd Relic doesn't take a week. It was reduced to taking a few hours like 6 months ago.

Literally 99% of the people that complain about Legion are people just going "OMFG BLIZZARD WANTS ME TO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME!!! GRIND!!" most of these people have never actually played a game with an actual Grind.

[Deleted]

you are not alone, I Quit for the same reason, its a tablet game now with some badass pve going on, and pvp is dead

- - - Updated - - -

You are alone in this.

Well.. not really, I'm sure there are plenty of other people that think Legion somehow has this super high barrier to be able to catch up. But like you they would just be complaining for the sake of it, since you can get a character from level 1-raid ready within 3 weeks of Casual play.

- - - Updated - - -



If grinding doesn't have a goal in Legion, then that means you aren't grinding... Also the 3rd Relic doesn't take a week. It was reduced to taking a few hours like 6 months ago.

Literally 99% of the people that complain about Legion are people just going "OMFG BLIZZARD WANTS ME TO ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME!!! GRIND!!" most of these people have never actually played a game with an actual Grind.

no, the reason for me and the community I know of, was the opposite, I have to wait for things to happen, I cant play hardcore weekends to fill up my week, id have to play every day to get results. plus there isn't any prestige at the end

[crazyfool319]

We were younger with a lot less responsibilities.

The game now is all of a sudden almost as grindy as tbc was (vanilla was still worse) while all the expansions between now and tbc kept catering towards an aging population with less time to give like me. It's a very jarring change despite the game being the best it's been in years.

Yes you were younger and had less responsibilities. But do you really expect games like this to cater to people with little time? Thats fine for mobile games and the like, but not paid subscription games. If everything was as simple as you want the vast majority of players would peace out after doing EVERYTHING. People are almost constantly running into lack of content walls(not as bad as it was just 1 expansion ago) and you expect them to make it easier for people who dont play the game very often?

[Alvito]

It is crazy easy to catch up right now. Artifact knowledge has had it's time gate almost completely removed. Doing that makes Artifact Power no longer an issue. The gear gap is easily and quickly closed even on a brand new 110 with LFR, broken shore quest, legion invasion and 880+ nethershard gear. Another reason you can rapidly acquire AP is all the high payout one time quests that were meant to be done with AK 20 or lower. Do them with AK 30 or higher and they will give you millions for a few minutes. It isn't until you have concordance that AP starts to slow down and by then it doesnt matter much.

[HeiAggra]

We were younger with a lot less responsibilities.

The game now is all of a sudden almost as grindy as tbc was (vanilla was still worse) while all the expansions between now and tbc kept catering towards an aging population with less time to give like me. It's a very jarring change despite the game being the best it's been in years.

This is fun! Just too mention i agree Legion is too grindy but lets remember WOD!
WOW was dead nothing to do raid or day, we want vanilla - tbc style of game, WOD is for casuals and such claims in every forum.
We got it and now we say. Too grindy, too much to do, too much quests, too much or everything-
Like i said i agree legion is grindy i do what i need to do i dont kill myself farming ap or anything and still raid. The problem is ppl want everything without effort.
im ok with the fact im not top 200 ap farmed on the server or anything. Do what you like after point 52 the rest is a bonus not mandatory for a casual.

[Deleted]

"I am not as available as before, let's blame the game for it"
Ffs...

[Sencha]

If, in 2 weeks, you could be at the same level of players who were here since the beginning of Legion, that would be an insult to them too.

[Serissa]

i cant stop laughing when anyone claims to play vanilla/tbc and claims to not have had a problem to grind all the shit in vanilla yet minimal farm in legion is suddenly problem for him - i wonder how you farmed resist gear back then if farming ap is too much .

You know it's BIG difference when you are 13yo with nothing to do beside games and 25yo with a lot of RL stuff? Right?