Legion is unfriendly to returning players from previous expansions

[Teri]

Erm.. okay. I would not be willing to dedicate THAT amount of time to a videogame anymore. ESP not if all that "work" becomes meaningless whenever they release the next box. Guess I'm becoming old.

No, it's partly my own fault for trying to play multiple (more then 5) characters at the same time, actually playing them , even in the casual sense of LFR/World boss/Weekly event and what not.

My 8 characters are like 895-907. Ultimately people would end up with the same gear in less time raiding normal. But I don't pug, for reasons. Scheduled raiding doesn't work if I am away at random days.

Anyway, I already realized that it's completely not worth it to play like this anymore, my sub has like 5 weeks to go and i'll see what happens then. (this isn't an "I quit" post)

Again, if someone focuses on purely 1 character and has access to organized raiding, there's no issues unless you wanna raid like high-end mythic raids + splitruns and whatever else they require.

[Krakozjubr]

Once that realization sets in, WoW is suddenly very hollow and you ask yourself "why even bother?". At which point you can go to the "sub for a month to see the story and then wait for the next patch, skipping any BS RNG grinds and timesinks/gating in the process".

And what is wrong with this? People with different play-styles and goals play different games. People who played through the whole expansion and people who subbed in a month ago shouldn't be on the same power-level. At least in a reasonable game.

Given current state of the game - in returning player haven't caught up to active population within a month it means only 1 thing: he didn't want to.

[Shiny212]

You're certainly not alone, the time gating makes it unplayable if you have a life.

[Krakozjubr]

I really hate this "i have a life" crap people pull. This isn't about life... this is just because you don't want to say out loud: "I can't be bothered".

I have family. I have daughters. I have lovely dog. I have hobbies outside of WoW. I work extremely demanding job basically 24/7. I go on business trips. Somehow all of this doesn't stop me from achieving most of my in-game goals.

It's all about either working for something or making excuses. Like with everything else in life.

[Aggrophobic]

But the time gates are over, though.
You don't get a quest weekly, and the only thing that is sort of gated is the Suramar campaign, by reputation, which is something that has been in the game since... well, Vanilla.

They are back in the next patch however and there is still legendaries. Even if you play 24/7 you might not get the mandatory ones for months.

Legion is pretty "unfriendly" to anyone. In many ways, it's a huge step down in quality from every other expantion.

[Granyala]

It's all about either working for something or making excuses.

Ever realized that maybe, people do not care about "WORKING" in a video game?
When I work at my flute or piano, I get to keep what I work for.
When I work in WoW, the next patch will make said work trivial or futile and the next expansion will reset me back to 0.
Why the hell would I be interested to put in effort in such a scenario that so obviously and disrespectfully wastes my precious free time?

[Nyel]

i cant stop laughing when anyone claims to play vanilla/tbc and claims to not have had a problem to grind all the shit in vanilla yet minimal farm in legion is suddenly problem for him - i wonder how you farmed resist gear back then if farming ap is too much .

The thing is, you did not have to farm a dozen different things back in Vanilla / TBC. In Vanilla you had to farm gold, that's it. All of the rest came either with gold or with time (equipment). The same in TBC. The reputation grind wasn't so tedious (yes, you needed rep in TBC to get into heroic dungeons).

Nowadays you have to farm shards, artifact power, equipment, legendaries and much more - gold is the only thing that comes naturally now.

[Granyala]

The thing is, you did not have to farm a dozen different things back in Vanilla / TBC.

Raid consumables and world buffs would like to have a word with you. *cough*

[Krakozjubr]

Why the hell would I be interested to put in effort in such a scenario that so obviously and disrespectfully wastes my precious free time?

But it has been like this since this game went into production. Every next tier invalidates previous gear. What are you arguing about... i guess i don't understand the point entirely now.

[Granyala]

But it has been like this since this game went into production. Every next tier invalidates previous gear. What are you arguing about... i guess i don't understand the point entirely now.

Precisely, which is why the whole "work for it blah" never made sense when you address non raiders.
Us raiders" worked for" stuff because the process of work was mostly fun for us (downing new bosses, e-peen race on farm bosses etc).

Even back then I understood everyone who looked at it in a critical light and told me that I was wasting m time.

Nonraiders have none of that. They only have boring RNG grinds and end up with characters that can't hold a candle to any raider. Do you blame them if they say "screw working for that"? I certainly don't.

[tikcol]

i cant stop laughing when anyone claims to play vanilla/tbc and claims to not have had a problem to grind all the shit in vanilla yet minimal farm in legion is suddenly problem for him - i wonder how you farmed resist gear back then if farming ap is too much .

You didn't farm resist gear, what a dumb example

[8bithamster]

You know it's BIG difference when you are 13yo with nothing to do beside games and 25yo with a lot of RL stuff? Right?

correct, but don't blame the game like OP does, you got old, you got conflicting schedules, it happens and no Blizzard won't fix that for you. I can raid Heroic, keep myself fully up to par, and still only play 2-3 nights a week. Yes, I had to adapt my schedule and work for it, but hell, for the fun it is, it's worth it.

[Nyel]

Raid consumables and world buffs would like to have a word with you. *cough*

As I said, all of that was purchasable with gold. In the end you always farmed gold in Vanilla (okay, except for resistance gear maybe). I remember very well how I farmed herbs in Vanilla to make gold to buy all the stuff I need (hunting for Black Lotus in Easter Plaguelands) - gold, gold, gold. Nowadays you need to farm so much more than that which makes it really tedious. I wouldn't say it's harder now than back then though...

[schwarzkopf]

I agree, I didn't realise how bad it was until I just got my hunter to level 110.

You hit 110 and whammo, a thousand things thrown at you from all directions and no idea what you should be doing.

Took me extensive wowhead and google searches to fathom my way through the 110 experience, and I'd done it twice before.

[cface]

Sure.
But there is one problem: if you play casually, the gear treadmill is basically obsolete and irrelevant, because your character will NEVER be competitive to a raider.
To be frank: the power difference is so large, that it doesn't matter whether you get an item more or not or whether you play well or not b/c you are missing a ton of raw stats.

Once that realization sets in, WoW is suddenly very hollow and you ask yourself "why even bother?". At which point you can go to the "sub for a month to see the story and then wait for the next patch, skipping any BS RNG grinds and timesinks/gating in the process".

< competitive
< wow
pick one.

Once that realization sets in, you are in a much better spot to actually enjoy wow. Unless you're in one of those absolute top guilds on the server who makes you have 3 characters up to date, you can just forget about the competitive part. It will only fuck you up. Sure it sucks when someone backpeddling inbecile with his stats and legs outdps you. It sure as hell suck when you get some mechanics just as your CD's where popped. It does suck less if you focus on doing mechanics and downing the boss as a team, and find another way to satisfy that competitive side in you.

[Teri]

The thing is, you did not have to farm a dozen different things back in Vanilla / TBC.

Vanilla: Fire/Nature resist gear from dungeons , Black lotus/Felwood world buffs for consumables, Head/shoulder/leg enchants were a pain to get.

TBC: Rows of elixirs+flamecap for progression, rep for BoP crafting gear & shoulder / head enchants but easier then vanilla. Crafted resist gear existed by some reputations as well. Badge of justice to fill in gaps of gear when raiding helped as well.

Warlock had to farm shards. Mage had to make water for the raid.

Obviously the need for resist gear and consumables became less and less as tiers progressed and you could overgear places. Same goes for maxing out your character with enchants or not, it might have not been required but I was in a top progression guild racing realm firsts during TBC.

Guilds were certainly not rich enough to buy gear/consumables/gems for everyone, and personally farming herbs for me was easier then farming gold, gold was needed for repairs too It was a different time, Legion obviously has different things to farm.

Also guilds were stuck in Karazhan/Tier4&5 while others were in Sunwell, you won't see that now, You'll see LFR Antorus drops 915, while mythic raiders run around in 960-985 in 7.3.5. Different tiers basicly replaced by 4 difficulties + titanforging overlap, and M+ / WQ gear.

[Nyel]

Vanilla: Fire/Nature resist gear from dungeons , Black lotus/Felwood world buffs for consumables, Head/shoulder/leg enchants were a pain to get.

TBC: Rows of elixirs+flamecap for progression, rep for BoP crafting gear & shoulder / head enchants but easier then vanilla. Crafted resist gear existed by some reputations as well. Badge of justice to fill in gaps of gear when raiding helped as well.

Warlock had to farm shards. Mage had to make water for the raid.

Obviously the need for resist gear and consumables became less and less as tiers progressed and you could overgear places. Same goes for maxing out your character with enchants or not, it might have not been required but I was in a top progression guild.

I know all of this. I've been a raiding Warlock back in Vanilla. I remember how I farmed 50 Souldshards or more (each taking one bag slot) for every raid just to teleport players or give them a health stone (one Soulshard for each teleport and health stone) just to get over the first 20 minutes of raid. I mean who wanted to run through BRD to enter MC? It was easier to have a Warlock and two others run through it and port the rest of the group... that's been my job.

Most resistance gear was either crafted or bought in my guild. I remember doing Huhuran with green items from auction house (and we succeeded). Special enchants were a luxury that hasn't been necessary at all. Nice to have, yes, but really tedious to get and the effect was minimal. The biggest problem in Classic was always gold. Sources to get gold were limited (no daily quests) and you had to farm either herbs, ores, hides or runecloth. If you had no gathering profession it was pretty tough to make gold. 50g rep costs per evening were a fortune you wasted on a daily / weekly basis and you somehow needed to get gold. Man, I remember farming Tyr's Hand and Hearthglen, good old times. I miss it.

As I said, I am not sure if it was easier back then or if it is easier now - it's just different.

[Teri]

As I said, I am not sure if it was easier back then or if it is easier now - it's just different.

Alright, we share the same view then

I was a Mage in vanilla/TBC later a Warlock late TBC on new account.

[mrsohta]

Class Hall quests are shorter now compared to release and getting traits is no problem now because they sped up artifact research, only problem is legendaries but it shouldn't matter much really as you get first two legendaries very easily.

[Krakozjubr]

Precisely, which is why the whole "work for it blah" never made sense when you address non raiders.

Nonraiders have none of that. They only have boring RNG grinds and end up with characters that can't hold a candle to any raider. Do you blame them if they say "screw working for that"? I certainly don't.

I absolutely agree. It's been at least 5 years since i last understood why people who don't raid play this game at all. I certainly wouldn't if i didn't raid with people i raid with for the last 8 years.

Playing this game without raiding is like watching a movie without sound. You kinda mostly maybe get what this whole fuss is all about, but still miss half the experience. If i would have been a non-raider, i'm sure there could have been plenty of games better than this one.

MMORPG is for raiders, always been since the dawn of time.