Queen Azshara vs Lich king

[Farrarie]

Azshara had 0 issues, totaly eradicating Azsuna as a zone with a single spell, something which the Lich-King cant even get close to without resorting to the use of sending endless armies of mindless undead, the Lich King doesnt even have close to the destructive power of Deathwing, Achimonde or Kil'Jaeden from a lore-perspective, heck even Mannoroth's done better on that part, the Lich King is objectively shit at 1v1 situations, power comes in controlling armies not dirrect-combat.

she used an (ancient artifact) to create huge wave shit on her people not a single spell
some orcs used the elements to destroy highmaul
jaina did shower to orcs capital

[Deleted]

she used an (ancient artifact) to create huge wave shit on her people not a single spell

Technically, it was a single spell. The spell was towards the Tidestone, she merely wanted to destroy it before Farondis could use it to destroy the well. The Tidestone's destruction caused a ley-line explosion that happened to create the curse/tidal wave in Azsuna, in other words, Aszhara didn't do jack to Farondis and his people, it was just coincidence that turned to her favor. (People keep saying she intended all of the above with a single spell, like please, fanboys.)

[ItsSpiRo]

Not sure the original argument, but I just want to point out that Rhonin who was a mediocre mage at the time of going back, was showing tremendous amount of power, from just being there... he easily was outdoing any nightelf mage and he wasn't even archmage tier at the time. Azshara had an unlimited tap to the well and had been tapping it for 1000's of years(i think, I don't know how long her reign was). And now she no longer has that well, she may have old god amps, but i doubt it since it's more likely Neptulon who created the Naga(they are literally the same as Ragnaros' flamewakers) and it doesn't seem the rest of the naga have any old god powers or appendages...

Now back to the mages, the Guardians are usually the best mages of the council and Aegwyn was the best they ever had, her natural power as a mage would dwarf rhonin easily and with the power up of a few weaker mages, she was able to defeat legions of demons and the avatar of Sargeras, without the guardian powers, she probably could also kill someone like Mannoroth, but Azshara might not be able to without her power up from the well

Rhonin was mediocre mage? What the fuck did i just read..

Rhonin also had 10000 years of Mage knowledge over any other Mage in that period.

Neptulon did not create Naga 100%.. It was N'zoth the Old God. And plus Well of Eternity was blood or whatnot from Y'Shaarj the Old God.

Powered Aegwynn + Aspects managed to defeat demons and avatar of Sargeras..

Doubtful, but it could be possible that Aegwynn without any powerup could defeat Mannoroth..

Stop saying like power up from well is same shit like LITERALLY taking power from other characters. It's not the same.

[derpkitteh]

Rhonin was mediocre mage? What the fuck did i just read..

Rhonin also had 10000 years of Mage knowledge over any other Mage in that period.

Neptulon did not create Naga 100%.. It was N'zoth the Old God. And plus Well of Eternity was blood or whatnot from Y'Shaarj the Old God.

Powered Aegwynn + Aspects managed to defeat demons and avatar of Sargeras..

Doubtful, but it could be possible that Aegwynn without any powerup could defeat Mannoroth..

Stop saying like power up from well is same shit like LITERALLY taking power from other characters. It's not the same.

aegwynn without the guardian powers probably could defeat mannoroth. she was able to stand with medivh for a while before sarg tried to end it.

also, the blood is azeroth's, not y'shaarj's.

powered aegwynn would turn mannoroth inside out, she is nothing to fuck with.

[Souflikar]

LK and the scourge, reviving the fallen to fight for them......Yeah, LK would win then sex her and move on.

[Farrarie]

Powered Aegwynn + Aspects managed to defeat demons and avatar of Sargeras.. .

if you read chronicles part two sargeras its mentioned that sargeras avatar was tricking Aegwynn

[DemonHunter18]

Aegwynn one shots Mannoroth with ease.

Mannoroth got schooled by the same orc twice with the same axe.

[Mehrunes]

Azshara's habit of hoarding around is quite a decent indicator that she's definitely in need to boost some power she doesn't currently possess herself. Now, it may be totally possible that the moment we meet her she may have turned into something but since all the hype about her is built on past and overall misinterpreted information the evalutation is fundamentally flawed. The fact that she barely shows her squamous face around doesn't surely help.

Eh, the Legion gathers all sort of crap too. Even Sargeras crafted himself some artifacts to achieve certain things he couldn't have done otherwise.

Pretty sure Deathwing tried at first to absorb the power of the (once) Dragon Soul onto himself. He succeeded to a degree but couldn't go far with that as the power was pretty much tearing his body apart. That was the reason he started to wear the plating, to keep his body whole and given how this habit wasn't lost in Cataclysm, the power was still there.

IIRC it's just because he was so obsessed with it that he wore it on his body all the time. As per Charge of the Aspects (probably other sources too, but this one comes to mind), it's damaging to dragonkind to wield in general. I think it even talked about Deathwing's state in that context.

I'd like to apply a degree of cautiousness when judging Deathwing's own statements as he never really looked that sane throughout the expansion. Alexstrasza mentions "wasted gifts", which to me sounds more like making a shitty usage of such gifts rather than being replaced by something else. Then of course Deathwing praised the "true masters of Azeroth" and all that jazz which, in fact, is not totally untrue as the awakening of Yogg-Saron and C'Thun definitely delivered a power boost of sort, but the base of that power remained strictly tied to Deathwing's unique gifts over the earth. Hell, he was a literal flying bomb of magma ready to explode at the right moment. The "hand" of the Old Gods wasn't really that visible (maybe except the magma tentacles sprouting during the Spine/Madness fights) given how the Old Gods' entire realm of competence is the Void. And you can see the connection between Old Gods and Deathwing as much as the one between Void and Dark Shamanism: not a direct power boost but rather the twisting and corruption of an already established power.

I know Deathwing isn't the most trustful narrator, but I kinda doubt Titans gave Neltharion the power to turn his wings and limbs into giant molten tentacles with enough power to kill another Aspect on their own. Same goes for magical superblood or the fact that nothing can kill him since he'll regenerate even from scraps. And I didn't mean they were replaced per se. Just that he got them and used them instead of the Aspect power for the most part.

And I'm not sure if the Void and Dark Shamanism is the best comparison. First of all, it's mostly achieved through Decay and only AU Orcs used Void for that. Secondly, Dark Shamanism, at least from what I gather, is more about a shortcut to what Shamanism can offer. Whereas in case of Deathwing, I'm not sure where the concept of shortcuts could even apply.

It's not a direct indication of her power (it may still be an indirect one, though) but surely said something about the overall importance. It's nonetheless underwhelming that during the epitome of all Old Gods' plans, the Hour of Twilight, all Azshara did was distracting a mortal druid. I can see someone coming up with excuses like game mechanics and other gibberish but on the end of the day, in the unfolding of the grand scheme planned by millennias by the Old Gods, Azshara meant shit. And I don't see the point of sidelining in that way someone who's, according to some of the folks here, the most powerful being on Azeroth or something along those lines.

Well, as I said, she was most likely plan B. I mean, she's no Deathwing, but she still could have been a great asset for the Hour of Twilight and yet was almost unused by N'zoth.

I didn't meant actual chains of command but rather overall importance and relevance in N'Zoth's schemes. It's pretty clear as day that Azshara was, as you put it, a backup plan at most. If she was free to pursue her own goals it may also mean that she wasn't really needed for anything really important (even though the hostile actions pursued against Neptulon pretty much reflected those of the Twilight's Hammer against Therazane, having in common the unwillingness to join their buddies Ragnaros and Al'akir in the whole Old God fuckfest, meaning Azshara's forces at least had a part to play, albeit not a really big one).

The Neptulon bit did mirror Therazane in part, but on the other hand, it was also for Azshara's more personal goal of controlling the seas. And being a backup replacement for Deathwing would actually say quite a lot about her in terms of importance to N'zoth or her power, and rather positive things at that.

Not to menetion "The dead outnumber the living and allways will" certainly applies to the dragons graveyard next to LK (One of the named ones with size Sindragosa). Bye bye Deathwing. DK Arthas wandered thro the faceless like nothing in a weakened state. Naga+ bloodelfs + illidan also got rekt by a weak arthas.

Deathwing is the one who killed Sindragosa in the first place. What is her animated corpse going to do against him in combat?

I don't think that the Lich King can raise stronger creatures with ease. Arthas had to venture forth and personally find Sindragosa's skeleton and then use Frostmourne to animate her corpse. So for the Lich King to rez powerful dragons he needs Frostmourne or an artifact of similar strength (e.g. the Blade of the Prince or Apocalypse) and he needs to be physically at the site of the corpse to raise it. This creates significant constraints to his power in combat without significant preparations.

Since the undead dragons tangent you were replying to was in relation to LK vs Deathwing, it's also worth noting that Deathwing regenerates. So even if Emberwyrm equivalent of Sindragosa managed to defeat him (which is highly questionable), what would the Lich King do next? He can't resurrect Deathwing if he can't truly kill him and he doesn't have the means to stop that regeneration. Which'd lead to him fighting Deathwing again and again and again. Even if Deathwing falls again and again, he'd take some Scourge down each time. And being a fire-breathing molten behemoth, he'd have incinerated them beyond resurrection.

[Raetary]

Neptulon did not create Naga 100%.. It was N'zoth the Old God. And plus Well of Eternity was blood or whatnot from Y'Shaarj the Old God.

the well of eternity water was azeroths blood.
not from y'shaarj.

[Littleraven]

Azshara and it's not even close. Before her old god power boost she was stated to be the most powerful living mage. So much so that no one in the legion would fuck with her because once they sensed how powerful she was they were somewhat scared of her. Sure some of that lore is from WotA and I know people don't particularly like Knack but that was written and unless it was retconned somewhere I take it as canon. The Lich King is powerful. Very powerful but I just can't see him being on the same level as Azshara. Mind you this is all not even counting her after she became a Naga.

There is no real way to know her power now or what to compare it to. The only concrete data we have puts her above Mannoroth but that isn't saying much since he was killed by Grom not once but twice across 2 timelines. Maybe for her time she was very powerful and that has become less so as time passed but considering she was thought to be the most powerful Mage and night elf....i am just gonna bet on her.

[Hodacia]

I start to admit that I'm far from en expert on the lore, and I usually just read this kinda threads very lightly. But this got me thinking a bit on Azshara. I'm a big fan of the Lich King and I think he was the coolest villain so far in the game. We know that he was powerful and what he accomplished, scary guy indeed.

With that said, I really think the game and lore needs a super strong and cool female villain, if not before it's time in the next expansion. And I (as a lot of other ppl) thinks it will be themed about old gods / Azshara. I suspect (just guessing ofc) Blizzard will take the opportunity and make the villain I have in mind. It feels like an open goal, Azshara have a lot of fans and as I said before, it's due time to have a badass and powerful female taking some space among all the dudes.

So to answer the topic. No one can say right now, we now so little about Azshara, but I have this feeling Blizzard will indeed make her Huge, at least tier endboss, probably for the whole expansion. And when that happens I'm sure this wouldn't be a topic anymore, Azshara will wipe the floor with most villain's we faced so far. Yeah, as mentioned, I'm guessing and maybe I'm a bit biased because of the female part

Go Azshara, take the crown from Lich King and be the best/coolest boss ever! It's time.

[Deleted]

Deathwing is the one who killed Sindragosa in the first place. What is her animated corpse going to do against him in combat?

He used the Dragon soul.. which kinda nuked everything, including himself but no longer posses.
Also undead/reanimated things tend to be a lot scarier to face than living things since they don't slow down with "wounds".
Deathwing got rekt by Khagdar.. a simple mage. Think (Ner'Zhul) LK can muster a lot more power than khagdar.

[Mehrunes]

He used the Dragon soul.. which kinda nuked everything, including himself but no longer posses.
Also undead/reanimated things tend to be a lot scarier to face than living things since they don't slow down with "wounds".
Deathwing got rekt by Khagdar.. a simple mage. Think (Ner'Zhul) LK can muster a lot more power than khagdar.

Khadgar never was a simple mage. And Deathwing got rekt by him before he had his plates replaced. LK was never particularly vested in the arcane either, so he wouldn't be able to replicate that feat even if Deathwing still had his old armor. Also, Cata Deathwing was just as destructive as WotA Deathwing even without the Dragon Soul. He shattered the world. He was also rather unphased by the concept of wounds. He's unphased by the concept of death to begin with. Speaking of the Dragon Soul, it took multiple shots from it after it was supercharged to defeat Deathwing. And LK has nothing close to the Dragon Soul.

[Rathbourne]

Aegwynn one shots Mannoroth with ease.

Mannoroth got schooled by the same orc twice with the same axe.

Mannoroth is a lot more powerful than people give him credit for.Also Grom only killed Mannoroth once,singlehandedly and that was because he was double fel empowered and had an axe with the strength of six Gronn hearts,while being seriously underestimated. The Iron Horde killed Mannoroth the second time and only did so by ambushing him.Grom striking the killing blow does no mean he took down Mannoroth.Without the Iron Horde/double fel empowerment ,Grom would have been a brown/green shitstain on the floor.

[derpkitteh]

Also he did take an Iron Star to his sides, those things probably hurt And yeah, people underestimate Gorehowl because it's not that flashy

to be fair, the only thing special about that axe in the old lore is that it's grom's weapon.

the chronicle made it powerful.

[DemonHunter18]

Mannoroth is a bigger failure than Goroth.

[Aucald]

Mannoroth is a bigger failure than Goroth.

Kind of depends, really. We've really no backstory on Goroth aside from knowledge that he's failed quite a lot. Perhaps Goroth's incompetence is a bit of a Legion legend and in-joke - we've just not encountered him yet because the Legion didn't trust him in any capacity against defenders that have repulsed them twice over.

[MikeBogina]

Rhonin was mediocre mage? What the fuck did i just read..
Rhonin also had 10000 years of Mage knowledge over any other Mage in that period.

That's just so retarded... And no it wasn't even just knowledge, his power was amplified beyond any of theirs.

Neptulon did not create Naga 100%.. It was N'zoth the Old God. And plus Well of Eternity was blood or whatnot from Y'Shaarj the Old God.

It's not stated who was the one that created them, only that the Old Gods made a pact with Azshara. Going by how they look, it's safe to say that Neptulon was the one who changed them(Old Gods changing people from their prisons, whole populace when only one agrees is not likely)

Powered Aegwynn + Aspects managed to defeat demons and avatar of Sargeras..

What Aspects where present during that battle?

Doubtful, but it could be possible that Aegwynn without any powerup could defeat Mannoroth..

Based on all her feats and how easily he dies, i'd say she'd have a hard time but still kills him without guardian powers.

Stop saying like power up from well is same shit like LITERALLY taking power from other characters. It's not the same.

You're right, getting power from the lifeblood of the most powerful titan is not the same as borrowing a portion of power from a few weaker mages. Can you imagine that the Sunwell was created from just a vial of the Well of Eternity? Crazy :/

[DemonHunter18]

Kind of depends, really. We've really no backstory on Goroth aside from knowledge that he's failed quite a lot. Perhaps Goroth's incompetence is a bit of a Legion legend and in-joke - we've just not encountered him yet because the Legion didn't trust him in any capacity against defenders that have repulsed them twice over.

true though I was mostly joking.

as for base Aegwynn, who knows.

though my rate is like this

base Aegwynn > demon Illidan (stated to be stronger than any of Archimonde's lieutenants) > Tichondrius >= Mannoroth

[ItsSpiRo]

That's just so retarded... And no it wasn't even just knowledge, his power was amplified beyond any of theirs.

It wasn't just knowledge? Did you even read the book? Rhonin literally had 10000 years of magic research at his disposal. While everyone else was pretty much at starting point. Like sending scientist in this period 10000 years in past and saying it will not make difference lmao..

It's not stated who was the one that created them, only that the Old Gods made a pact with Azshara. Going by how they look, it's safe to say that Neptulon was the one who changed them(Old Gods changing people from their prisons, whole populace when only one agrees is not likely)

It does not need to be stated. Neptulon has no such power.. That is not safe to say at all. That is retarded to say lmao.. Neptulon was literally fighting against Naga and you are claiming he created them. I first time even hear someone spout such nonsense..

What Aspects where present during that battle?

It was not specified, it was just said Dragonflights.

Based on all her feats and how easily he dies, i'd say she'd have a hard time but still kills him without guardian powers.

Based on all her feats when she was powered by most powerful mages on Azeroth.

You're right, getting power from the lifeblood of the most powerful titan is not the same as borrowing a portion of power from a few weaker mages. Can you imagine that the Sunwell was created from just a vial of the Well of Eternity? Crazy :/

I know i am right. You say "weaker" mages about strongest mages on the Azeroth. Cool story bro..