Garrosh - Melee Warrior - Warcraft Hero

[NoiseTank13]

The worst thing is, there's nothing about his abilities that is unique to Garrosh. You could literally replace him with another hero, like Saurfang, or Mountain Giant, or any vrykul warrior, and there won't be any discrepancies. There's nothing Garrosh-themed in Garrosh hero...

That's going to be extremely hard to do considering you (the player) have never played as Garrosh in anything. Where was this line of logic when Zul'jin came out?

"Zul'jin never threw a dagger, or buzz saws, or had some odd seconds of immortality, or threw a guillotine. There is nothing Zul'jin-themed in a Zul'jin hero."

I'm willing to accept you may be disappointed at a more defensive kit. Alright, we'll agree to disagree there. What I take issue with is people going "this isn't Garrosh at all, swinging his axe to control the battlefield. He'd never do that! It's simply not Garrosh!"

[Charge me Doctor]

I'm willing to accept you may be disappointed at a more defensive kit. Alright, we'll agree to disagree there. What I take issue with is people going "this isn't Garrosh at all, swinging his axe to control the battlefield. He'd never do that! It's simply not Garrosh!"

Fun thing is that if we would get Grommash as he was in WC3 people would be fucking pissed about it with all these "it's not Grommash at all, his kit doesn't suit him", while in WC3 he was a regular blademaster hero.

This whole arguing comes from "their view on Garrosh isn't the same as mine" with literally nothing to back this up, because all "action" we had from Garrosh was either from different timeline, or in our imagination.

[NoiseTank13]

Fun thing is that if we would get Grommash as he was in WC3 people would be fucking pissed about it with all these "it's not Grommash at all, his kit doesn't suit him", while in WC3 he was a regular blademaster hero.

This whole arguing comes from "their view on Garrosh isn't the same as mine" with literally nothing to back this up, because all "action" we had from Garrosh was either from different timeline, or in our imagination.

Well I'd actually agree with them, since Grom being a Blademaster was more of a gameplay design decision- Grom was basically a Heroic Orc Grunt and never a Blademaster, so technically... yeah, Grom replacing Samuro as the Blademaster would be really bad.

[Charge me Doctor]

Well I'd actually agree with them, since Grom being a Blademaster was more of a gameplay design decision- Grom was basically a Heroic Orc Grunt and never a Blademaster, so technically... yeah, Grom replacing Samuro as the Blademaster would be really bad.

Exactly, we basically had no real "Grom" ever, we aven't seen him in fights, we haven't played him, blizzard can do whatever the fuck they want and it'll be counted as canon and we really have no say in it because it's "my" (read: yours) imaging of Grom and their (read: bunch of people who work at blizzard and do their job). Same applies to Garrosh, "analyzing" cinematic and basically guessing shit and our own interpretations is just poor version of what happens on devs meetings in blizzard HQ, where they actually have to come to conclusion and run different kits iterations through and find out which fits better - we don't do that , we just argue and complain and there is no stop to that.

I used Grom blademaster as an example to show that there is no such a thing as "there is no X-themed in X", because we already had Grom as a fucking blademaster and people ate this shit. I could (and did) make a better Grommash in a fucking map redactor i refuse to believe that blizzard couldn't do that themselves, it was either for gameplay purpose or out of lazyness, or they planned that Gromm is a blademaster and that it fits his character.

[NoiseTank13]

I'm sure they wanted Heroes in the singleplayer to match those you can use in MP. That's the only reason they gave Grom that kit to begin with. And honestly it didn't bother me.

[DesoPL]

Fun thing is that if we would get Grommash as he was in WC3 people would be fucking pissed about it with all these "it's not Grommash at all, his kit doesn't suit him", while in WC3 he was a regular blademaster hero.

This whole arguing comes from "their view on Garrosh isn't the same as mine" with literally nothing to back this up, because all "action" we had from Garrosh was either from different timeline, or in our imagination.

Problem with Grom is that, he actually never was an blademaster and they admited it. Grom was allways warrior, but due to technical issues in game, he was placed as blademaster hero.

But well, who cares anyway?

[Ashkiman]

He's wearing mantle of warchief so if we're going by that phase, it would've made sense for him to have access to some Iron Horde (and even sha themed) abilities rather than just standard warrior abilities.

[RH92]

HotS's roster is in an infantile state compared to the bigger MOBAs. Believe me, there's a million cubic miles of breathing room for hero kits to fit into while also adding a new mechanic and making the abilities match the character. The only reason I can see why they would make Garrosh into this is to fill a role quota.

What I don't like about those kinds of conversation is people rarely give proper examples.

If you truly think it could be done better and more in terms of character in question, design a kit so I can see what you mean and not just vague ideas.

It is easy to say something sucks.

[Thimagryn]

TBH I feel like people expected Garrosh to be a variation of Sonya. He'd have a leap attack of some sort, a cleave or single spin attack, and his Body Check ability as a baseline interrupt/slow.

His current kit will be great for gameplay but I think it'd also work on any number of characters that aren't Garrosh. A Mountain Giant hero would actually be perfect for it since it's Tiny's kit from DOTA.

[docterfreeze]

What I don't like about those kinds of conversation is people rarely give proper examples.

If you truly think it could be done better and more in terms of character in question, design a kit so I can see what you mean and not just vague ideas.

It is easy to say something sucks.

Trait - Controlled Rage: Activate to increase your movement speed, attack speed, and armor for xyz seconds. Garrosh, unlike Grommash, showed that he doesn't quite let his rage consume him. Instead opting to use it when the time is right. Making his rage ability activatable captures that pretty well I'd say.

Q: Overpowering strike: Cone ability in front of garrosh. Chargeable. Press and release: Small damage and no effect. Charge for longer: medium damage and a slow. Charge fully: High damage and a stun. In the cinematics, Garrosh seems to put A LOT of power into his swings in an attempt to break the opponent's defense. Though this is a slight stretch, it still absolutely fits his character. I also drew inspiration from the League of Legends character Sion who has a very similar ability.

W: Nowhere to run: Line skillshot. Throw out a chain that attaches to the first enemy hero or mercenary hit and deals small damage. The target hit is tethered to garrosh by a chain (think of leoric's W). The chain breaks if the target gets far enough away from garrosh. If the target remains chained after xyz seconds, they are pulled to garrosh, dealing medium damage and being stunned for xyz seconds. In Nagrand vs the player and in Pandaria vs Taran Zhu, Garrosh uses a chain to pull his opponent to him. Though it's a more minor feature when looking at the whole of his fighting style, it's a recognizable ability for his fans.

E: Second wind: When below a certain % of health, Garrosh heals a % of his health every xyz second(s). A well known warrior ability. This could be replaced with whatever Blizzard feels like. I wanted to save his more well known techniques for his ultimate, but I felt like he needed some form of sustain to be considered a bruiser. Thus, second wind.

R1: Beatdown: Medium range targeted ability. Garrosh casts gorehowl aside and leaps to the targeted enemy, stunning the target for xyz seconds and dealing high damage. The stun and damage is channeled, so Garrosh can be CC'd to stop the beatdown and he cannot use any other abilities while using beatdown. Undoubtedly something his fans would recognize very well. He socks Taran Zhu, pummels Thrall, unloads a barrage of heavy fists upon the player, and nearly beats you to a bloody pulp before Thrall steps in. It's safe to say that he punches people more than any other relevant character.

R2: Mak'gora: Short range targeted ability. Garrosh challenges the target to a duel to the death, creating a medium sized area, pushing allies and enemies other than his target out and creating terrain that prevents anyone from entering or leaving for xyz seconds. It wouldn't be Garrosh without some dueling. He was involved in 8 duels over his written lifetime, more than any other relevant character. Three mak'gorah, one mak'rogahn, and four ruleless duels. This ability also drew inspiration from a League of Legends character, Camille

[DesoPL]

Alarak and Garrosh sitting on the tree... Seriously i like thier match start interactions.

[apepi]

So I tried him, I did not like him. He did not feel like Garrosh.

[Gallahadd]

So I tried him, I did not like him. He did not feel like Garrosh.

Thematically sure... But how does he feel mechanically. Is he fun, does he feel impactful, how is his survivability etc.

[apepi]

Thematically sure... But how does he feel mechanically. Is he fun, does he feel impactful, how is his survivability etc.

Hard to tell, every game game seems to be a big swing. Wait time is too long, this meta does not seem fun. Que time is not worth it so I gave up playing him, not worth my time.

I enjoyed playing Malth much more. He was worth the wait, Garrosh? Haha.

[docterfreeze]

I'm in queue with him now but took a couple hours to experiment in try mode. From there I got to see just how much damage he would do. It's low, as I expected. When I found out he was a tank I was hoping he would have a bruiser build like muradin, who has a direct damage increase on each talent level. Garrosh has all of his damage increases stuffed into one talent level, even then there are only three and they are not that impactful to his damage. If you take body check you can get another damage increase, but it's all the way at level 20.

[Charge me Doctor]

snip

>Complains about Garrosh being a tank
>Makes a tank kit for Garrosh as an example of how he sees him

You literally just mashed 4/6 CC abilities for "not a tank" character.
Charging Q is either only slows or deals low damage, that's how abilities work, you don't give stun+high damage abilities to damage dealers. Ever. It doesn't work with your kit - your trait boosts your MS and AS but your Q basically stops you from moving and attacking.

Another stun, line skillshots are easy to land for someone with MS boost and slow/stun/teammates - there is a downside for Leoric when he tethers to an opponent - he gets slower, it's there for a reason, your iteration will work for str hero of hero arena maps of various kinds (you know the ones where everyone and their mother picks agi heroes, farm 300+ agi and just rightclick everyone), but not in hots.
TL;DR: ability supposed to be an initiation tool, synergyses too well with trait, and doesn't work with Q. Or your role is to chain stun opponent while your allies beat him down.

there is basically no E but "something to sustain this character because duh it's not a tank obviously"

Another fucking CC+high damage ability, this time it's targeted AND at medium range - GG WP, basically John Cena that you get for free and on any map outside of infernal shrines. Nothing can go wrong here definitely. Again another ability that CCs opponent, deals heavy damage and stops you from acting - doesn't synergises with Trait, Q or W. And we all know that all good warriors just throw their weapon and decide to punch his opponents instead. I mean, Sion does that in LoL because he fucking dies and overcharges, but here...

Basically level 20 Sonya leap with even more arena to fight but short range and targeted?

If you wanted to design a paper character - you did that, but that doesn't fit your previous description of Garrosh as a warrior, it basically fits the same category of a warrior that controls battlefield that blizzard did, but it's better because... you did it yourself, and it's simply made to be overpowered with abundance of CC and high damage abilities and "something to sustain"?

[tristannarutofan]

Yeah, they're really neat. Especially ETC Space Marine. On the other hand ... Is it really too much to ask for at least a green reskin of basic Garrosh, if we can't have Grom?

like muradin/magni they should do a full on Grom skin, course if they want to do grom this year they might not want to.
(and yes thats different than amazon Nova)

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His E is literally anything but "Fight me fool!" it's "get away from me and let my team/towers kill you instead!". If used on allies, it's either "YOU go fight!" or "here let me help you flee!". His trait is literally "don't fight me if possible, cause I get harder to kill if you do"

when you have a WEAPON and you deliberately GRAB the opponent and throw them into a wall. Or grab an opponent and throw them into ANOTHER opponent...

that is literally the most "fight me fool" thing you could ever do.

-------------------

And in regards to that "there is nothing garrosh here about garrosh"
.....

like... Garrosh is a warrior. the garrosh things about him are he hits stuff and yells at people. thats literally all Garrosh hellscream has ever done in his entire life from start to finish (other than cry)

Like i played Artanis in hots before i played him in starcraft and to my knowledge not a single ability he had in starcraft is present in his kit but his kit. He could have been a melee assassin, or they could have made him a specialist commander going off the campaign mode...

most of the heroes abilities are very arbitrary

Aburther is completely made up, as is half os Zagarra's kit.

Varian has "swing sword" "Charge someone" "block attacks" and "jump and swing sword"....there is nothing specific to him because he's a warrior and its the most mundane way of fighting.

You people just need to say "i wish he was different" and leave it at that.

"I wish he was different" is a completely valid opinion to had and provide feedback on(especially since in the future they could overhaul him to add mechanics via talents

but "he doesnt feel like garrosh" is bad feedback because you never play as him and he was a cinimatic character. there is nothing to go on. "he doesnt feel like garrosh" is an impossible standard and an objectively incorrect phrase

and "blizzard did a bad job because this isnt what i want" is an equally worthless opinion

[NoiseTank13]

Yeah if you aren't a popular streamer it's fuckin' impossible to test a new char out on the PTR. I only log on the PTR to see what the models look like in game and fuck around in try mode a bit.

Then I log.

[Sumaku13]

like muradin/magni they should do a full on Grom skin, course if they want to do grom this year they might not want to.
(and yes thats different than amazon Nova)

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when you have a WEAPON and you deliberately GRAB the opponent and throw them into a wall. Or grab an opponent and throw them into ANOTHER opponent...

that is literally the most "fight me fool" thing you could ever do.

-------------------

And in regards to that "there is nothing garrosh here about garrosh"
.....

like... Garrosh is a warrior. the garrosh things about him are he hits stuff and yells at people. thats literally all Garrosh hellscream has ever done in his entire life from start to finish (other than cry)

Like i played Artanis in hots before i played him in starcraft and to my knowledge not a single ability he had in starcraft is present in his kit but his kit. He could have been a melee assassin, or they could have made him a specialist commander going off the campaign mode...

most of the heroes abilities are very arbitrary

Aburther is completely made up, as is half os Zagarra's kit.

Varian has "swing sword" "Charge someone" "block attacks" and "jump and swing sword"....there is nothing specific to him because he's a warrior and its the most mundane way of fighting.

You people just need to say "i wish he was different" and leave it at that.

"I wish he was different" is a completely valid opinion to had and provide feedback on(especially since in the future they could overhaul him to add mechanics via talents

but "he doesnt feel like garrosh" is bad feedback because you never play as him and he was a cinimatic character. there is nothing to go on. "he doesnt feel like garrosh" is an impossible standard and an objectively incorrect phrase

and "blizzard did a bad job because this isnt what i want" is an equally worthless opinion

Actually agree. Some people just need to say "I don't like what happened here". That's fine. "I don't like what happened here, because of x, y, z" are also valid when x, y and z are expanded on in a constructive way. People just hide behind a plain "I don't like it" just for the sake of it, in a manner similar to people who say "I wish x character had been released instead of y".

While I degree with some dissent, most are just salt fests that add nothing constructive.

[RH92]

I played him a bit on PTR, it is rather fun and I was sceptical a little bit.

I know a lot of people expected some dumb ape throwing tantrum every second, but I like how he turned out to be. To me he truly feels like a Warchief, standing in thick of a battle and commanding his troops.

*Snip*

So your idea is to give him 2 baseline stuns, Muradin trait and as Heroics a 3rd stun or Arreat Crater. What is his weakness supposed to be?

If you want him to be a bruiser or assassin, he can't have high damage, a lot of CC and some sustain at the same time.