Why Even Nazis Deserve Free Speech

[Trassk]

You should listen to them more. Their talking points are very similar (and yes that sometimes includes genocide).

perhaps, and Nazism does need to be snuffed out, but these are not the same kinds of people, these are redneck idiots from another country spreading discord and using hate speech in a small group. Nazis were a political power that held the world in fear.

[Cradyz]

So pushing any nazi idealogy is de-facto banned, seems about right.

What does that even mean, 'nazi' has lost all it's context in todays political environment. If you are a white racial collectivist like the Alt-right is and you want to talk about how the white race is in danger and must be protected go right ahead, spout your nonsense. If you think jews control the world and the only way to free 'our people' is a new holocaust you can fuck right off.

It's almost like everything is shades of grey and there is no point in talking about broad ideologies when it comes to banning or permitting speech, hence the inciting violence part.

[zorkuus]

perhaps, and Nazism does need to be snuffed out, but these are not the same kinds of people, these are redneck idiots from another country spreading discord and using hate speech in a small group. Nazis were a political power that held the world in fear.

The Nazi party didn't just fall from the sky one day. Even they started small.

[smokii]

You don't have to be OK with what a person says to recognize that you still have to allow them to say it. It's unfortunate that such simple ideas are still too big for some people to grasp.

i fully understand the concept.

i'm asking whether you would be accepting of it? would you counter protest? would you endorse violence against them?

there's already one guy above willing to napalm them - how sincere it is, i dont know.

Yes I would. Because they would all be in one place and make a nice convenient target for an accidental "Woops a daisy, we honestly didn't mean to drop that napalm bomb" incident.

if you counter protested, would you expect the chants about fiddling your kiddies to not raise tensions? do you think fights would break out?
what if they started turning up armed, because they expected violent resistance to their ideas? would you turn up armed?

freedom of speech is an interesting thing.

at what point does it become hate speech?
at what point do you cross the line into fighting for what you believe in?

how do you legislate this?

[Deleted]

Just wow, are we no equivocating Nazis loosing their Jobs with the treatment of jews in the third Reich? Open a history book, then come back. Thanks.

Yes. Yes, I am.
Maybe you should open a history book. I said in the 30s. Remember, there were no concentration camps yet, Kristallnacht also only happened in '38.
They had a decade long period there were jews only had some quotas for attending university or holding important positions.
This is 100% fine since the employer (=the state) is allowed to fire anyone without an excuse. Which is the argument you two-faced people with your double standards use every single time someone who has white skin is massively discriminated against.


[Infracted]

[Livnthedream]

I get their point - that we need to allow these people to express themselves in order to show themselves. There is truth to that. Trump and his campaign to the POTUS created an atmosphere that lets people like this thrive easier than before, and finally we're seeing just how deep racism and hate still dwell in America.

How deep based on what? The 'accepted' figure of white supremacists in America is ~10k. With the largest segment being the KKK at ~6k and the other 4k being spread amongst various groups organizations. Some sources inflate that number by as much as another 100k due almost entirely to the prison population and how gang/criminal enterprise works, but those sorts of assertions are highly contested by the nature of involvement. So I really have to ask, who is it that you are really pointing at? I mean it isn't like the ADL and SPLC has had to go to absurd lengths like Pepe and naming Muslims as anti-Muslim as a means of justifying their existence or anything. You point to a rally that has been universally shit on by just about everyone. I mean even Rebel Media, in its worst week ever, shat all over it. You really think they have any sort of power? That they are actually making anything happen? C'mon. Don't be that stupid.

[zorkuus]

Yes. Yes, I am.
Maybe you should open a history book. I said in the 30s. Remember, there were no concentration camps yet, Kristallnacht also only happened in '38.
They had a decade long period there were jews only had some quotas for attending university or holding important positions.
This is 100% fine since the employer (=the state) is allowed to fire anyone without an excuse. Which is the argument you two-faced people with your double standards use every single time someone who has white skin is massively discriminated against.

You don't get it.

[JohnBrown1917]

What does that even mean, 'nazi' has lost all it's context in todays political environment. If you are a white racial collectivist like the Alt-right is and you want to talk about how the white race is in danger and must be protected go right ahead, spout your nonsense. If you think jews control the world and the only way to free 'our people' is a new holocaust you can fuck right off.

It's almost like everything is shades of grey and there is no point in talking about broad ideologies when it comes to banning or permitting speech, hence the inciting violence part.

People who are actual nazis.

[WeaponizedPillows]

Thanks for standing up for free speech. So many people don't understand that when any free speech, including what some people frivolously label "hate speech", is threatened, ALL free speech is threatened.

Forgetting the fact that the majority of protestors on the right are not actually nazis, even if they were, their opinions still deserve to be shared. This is what it means to live in a democracy. If you disagree with this, then you are not interested in a free democracy; you are not interested in having differing opinions allowed to exist and be shared.

With that covered, everyone needs to sit down and talk to each other. I'm a classical liberal, so I actually listen to what the "alt-right" has to say. When you do, you realize that they actually aren't all nazis. The loudest ones may be, but the majority are just pro-white activists.

What's the difference? It's pretty simple. Pro-white activists are just trying to unite against the anti-white sentiment that has been generated by the equal outcome diversity crowd, and those of similar thought. It's a response to anti-white authoritarians who have control of much of the media and government in the west. It's a response to quotas pushing companies to overlook white people for jobs, overlook them for scholarships, and positions of power.

If you think that isn't happening, I urge you to look at James Demoore, and what he has said after being fired from Google. Google is one of the most powerful corporations in the world. According to Demoore, Google has private, unfilmed seminars where they talk about how to, illegally, push gender and race diversity.

If you've been a manager in the west, you know this pressure applies in many places, not just in silicon valley. It's a pressure to suppress meritocracy to promote racial diversity; to ignore qualified white people because there aren't enough black trans wheelchair bound two spirit people on staff. Whenever we focus on identity over merit, it inevitably becomes a competition of oppression rather than personal achievement. Is that the world you want to live in?

[Deleted]

You don't get it.

Please enlighten me why is it okay to fire one person but not the other.

[Sky High]

Until the day comes that they are jailing Nazis for just being Nazis I'm not the least bit concerned about free speech. Not like the DOJ is going to change anything as it is now lol!

[Tijuana]

Hate speech =/= free speech

There's a fucking difference.

Not in US law. Protecting speech you disagree with, is the WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF FREE SPEECH. If nobody is offended by it, why would it need to be protected? I mean, use your head dude....

[Independent voter]

Because that works so well, see this forum.

I get the notion why you think it is important, but just as a sidenote: Maybe if they rallly under the same flag that was used to justify the genoice on members of your family you'd feel a little bit different.

Should ISIS sympathizers have the right to peacefully protest for the ideology of ISIS under the ISIS flag? Or Al-Quaida?

Let me get this straight: Would you think it's okay for Al-Quaida sympathizers to rally under their flag on ground zero to celebrate their biggest victory while chanting "death to America" ?

Personally i think not allowing the propagation of ideas that fundamentally contradict the countries constitution is a sensible approach.

Free speech is really a big thing in the US.

Far as I know ISIS and al Qeada are terrorist groups so they can't hold a legal demonstration in the US. There's nothing like The Boston Chapter of ISIS International or anything.

And if you yell fire in a crowded theater and people die in the rush to get outside, you're going to prison.

But we've had Nazis in the US since 1930 and they've always had the right to speak. It's a matter of degrees, Nazis aren't nearly as much of a threat to public safety as ISIS.

[zorkuus]

Please enlighten me why is it okay to fire one person but not the other.

I'll leave you to figure that one out. You might want to start with the context.

But we've had Nazis in the US since 1930 and they've always had the right to speak. It's a matter of degrees, Nazis aren't nearly as much of a threat to public safety as ISIS.

ISIS are mostly a middle-east/europe problem. Willing to take a bet that Nazi's have killed more people in the US than ISIS?

[JohnBrown1917]

Please enlighten me why is it okay to fire one person but not the other.

Nazis make the Jews/non-whites/homosexuals/disabled at said company nervous by inciting genocide upon their people.

[Tijuana]

Until the day comes that they are jailing Nazis for just being Nazis I'm not the least bit concerned about free speech. Not like the DOJ is going to change anything as it is now lol!

I think violent stick and bat bashing is sort bad too. Just sayin...

[Pannonian]

Yes. Yes, I am.
Maybe you should open a history book. I said in the 30s. Remember, there were no concentration camps yet, Kristallnacht also only happened in '38.

Wrong. https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article...uleId=10005263

They had a decade long period there were jews only had some quotas for attending university or holding important positions.

Wrong again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws

Yeah, i stand by my original statement. Open a fucking history book. Racial laws were in effect by 1935. Concentration Camps opened in 1933. The Reichskristallnacht wasn't the beginning it was the first climax. So inform yourself instead you spreading WRONG and DEBUNKED nazi propaganda, because that's what you're doing right now. "Oh the nazis were not harming jews, just some quotas" - that's what the hardcore Nazis in europe try today to somehow get the Nazis in a better light, but continue making yourself look like a fool.

[Tijuana]

Except Neo-Nazi's. But that's inconvinient right?

They are attempting to incite, and failing hard.

[Cradyz]

People who are actual nazis.

I thought it was about 'any nazi ideology', there are multiple? Or are you talking about the official WW2 one with the racial purity and germanic mysticism?
Or do you mean just any random facist or racist movement which is what i mean with 'lost all it's context'.

[Tomservo]

I get their point - that we need to allow these people to express themselves in order to show themselves. There is truth to that. Trump and his campaign to the POTUS created an atmosphere that lets people like this thrive easier than before, and finally we're seeing just how deep racism and hate still dwell in America.

Trump didn't do that. The media narrative did.