Large Scale Free Speech Rally in Boston

[Zecora]

2 groups looking for a fight fought. Both at fault no matter which way you look at it.

Above.

Right. So by your logic, the Allies in WW2 and the Nazi's are equally "at fault" for 30 million dead, and for 7 million jews murdered.

At least you make it clear what you are, if someone didn't know already.

[Dextroden]

and how far do you define peaceful? can you for instance stop them from holding meetings in public places by barricading the entrances? what about on private property?

Well. People have already come out and excuses vandalism. And as long as you don't kill anyone, it's all game. So, expect more violence.

[Elegiac]

What percent of Trump voters do you assume voted for him despite not supporting him?

Quite a few, simply because he was a Republican or wasn't Hillary.

Then again, those people deserve to be mocked too....Really, it was a mortal sin to vote for him regardless of political stripe.

[karumayu]

2 groups looking for a fight fought. Both at fault no matter which way you look at it.

No, when one side is entirely a reaction to violent rally, then you don't blame both sides. The Instigator is at fault.

[Elegiac]

Neither do Clinton voters.

The only people who legitimately give a shit about Clinton are folks like you. We've gotten over her.

[Dextroden]

Quite a few, simply because he was a Republican or wasn't Hillary.

Then again, those people deserve to be mocked too....Really, it was a mortal sin to vote for him regardless of political stripe.

No. It was a mortal sin to not vote for Clinton. Hence the dumb phrase "Third party/no vote is a vote for Trump".

[Moshots]

Neither do Clinton voters.

Funny you want to bring up clinton Maybe we should talk about the Bill Clinton Statue and how they are a setback to sexual assualt rights in our country that a man accused of 3 sexual assualts has statues to him.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/08/1...y-south-dakota

[Video Games]

Right. So by your logic, the Allies in WW2 and the Nazi's are equally "at fault" for 30 million dead, and for 7 million jews murdered.

At least you make it clear what you are, if someone didn't know already.

This isn't a war, this is 2 vigilante groups in the street being retards. Also calling me right wing isn't an argument since I'm not. Try again.

No, when one side is entirely a reaction to violent rally, then you don't blame both sides. The Instigator is at fault.

Both sides brought weapons looking for a fight. Both are to blame.

[Venant]

No. I'm implying Trump supporters deserve to be mocked and be denied a public platform insofar as is peacefully possible.

Trump had enough people support him to get elected president. You are talking about actively persecuting an insane number of people. It seems like a pretty bizarre inversion of morality that people who think this way would consider it a hate crime to make the same statement about any of their pet minority groups, yet then they advocate such actions against half the population of the country.

[Elegiac]

No. It was a mortal sin to not vote for Clinton. Hence the dumb phrase "Third party/no vote is a vote for Trump".

Which bore out, quite frankly.

[Canpinter]

Quite a few, simply because he was a Republican or wasn't Hillary.

Then again, those people deserve to be mocked too....Really, it was a mortal sin to vote for him regardless of political stripe.

while trump is a deplorable pile of shit and anyone who supports him is ether an idiot or an asshole, that still doesn't give you the right to prevent them from freely using their rights. saying you will peaceably block them from any public platform for speech is fundamentally no different then saying you will peaceably block them from voting at a public polling station.

[Elegiac]

Trump had enough people support him to get elected president. You are talking about actively persecuting an insane number of people. It seems like a pretty bizarre inversion of morality that people who think this way would consider it a hate crime to make the same statement about any of their pet minority groups, yet then they advocate such actions against half the population of the country.

Lol. Trump is not supported by even a quarter of the country.

[Shadowmelded]

Please show me 1 picture of a nazi flag or KKK in boston??? it was literally Moderates who believe in free speech vs Communists...

counter-protesting isn't agitating.

[Skroe]

You do know Kekistan is a mockery of identity politics?

Yes. And it's an asinine way to do it created by unfunny people and promulgated by others of low intellect.

Identity politics is combated by a compelling argument against it. Not knuckledraggers making a joke that nobody gets unless its explained to them.

[Moshots]

counter-protesting isn't agitating.

Wearing masks Picking fights and beating people isn't agitating????

[RickJamesLich]

To me that scary thing right now is that being for free speech somehow is being lumped in with white supremacy and supporting the nazi's, which is a completely asinine statement. The people who shut down the rally should be ashamed of themselves.

[Shadowmelded]

Wearing masks Picking fights and beating people isn't agitating????

Wearing masks isn't no. The others sure, but "many" is overstating things, deliberately.

[Moshots]

Wearing masks isn't no. The others sure, but "many" is overstating things, deliberately.

http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/t...ction18.2-422/

Wearing masks in virginia in public is a felony... Everyone of those antifa at Charletteville. should be in a jail cell right now.

[KrazyK923]

Literally its still a week later and all were hearing is nazi nazi nazi on CNN... we have had 2 terrorist attacks by ISIS and yet CNN still rather Hand pick the Communist News Network news.

Because there was a fucking Nazi terrorist attack in the United States in 2017. And the President not only walked back his disavowing, but then went and pulled his "both sides" deflection to decrease the blame of the attacker and further embolden the Nazis and white supremacists, from their own words saying so.

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http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/t...ction18.2-422/

Wearing masks in virginia in public is a felony... Everyone of those antifa at Chancellorsville should be in a jail cell right now.

But Anfita REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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To me that scary thing right now is that being for free speech somehow is being lumped in with white supremacy and supporting the nazi's, which is a completely asinine statement. The people who shut down the rally should be ashamed of themselves.

Nobody shut down the rally. The police and the organizers agreed to leave after several big names dropped out. Allegedly because of some threats of a bombing, to which the police have said multiple times now that there's no evidence of. Right wingers do this constantly. Hide behind the excuse of "free speech" while espousing truly horrible shit, and then turning around and whining when people criticize them for saying as much. Somehow its free speech for them to spout racist and nazi ideologies but its not to speak out against it. Funny how that works.

The sooner people wake up to the fact that certain groups among the right are hiding behind "Free speech" to pull off their heinous shit the better. The exact same way certain groups on the left hide behind "equality" to do the same thing.

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Wearing masks Picking fights and beating people isn't agitating????

As much as you and the others want to keep lying, as per the police department's own words, the agitators were a third party and "99.9% of everyone involved were there for the right reasons."

[Skroe]

Trump had enough people support him to get elected president. You are talking about actively persecuting an insane number of people. It seems like a pretty bizarre inversion of morality that people who think this way would consider it a hate crime to make the same statement about any of their pet minority groups, yet then they advocate such actions against half the population of the country.

And much of that support melted away because of Trump's conduct.

I wrote this a few weeks ago

Okay so to explain this I'm going to reach back and apply something that General David Petraeus said about the Iraqi Insurgency before the surge: that "we" need to sort the opposition (in this case the conservatives/Republicans, in that case the Iraqi insurgency) into 3 camps:

(1) The eager and willing die hard zealots who will oppose us no matter what. There is no rationalizing with these people.
(2) The the reluctant, who are waiting for a better offer and constitute the bulk of the opposition.
(3) The desperate, who are going along in order to survive and are acting as such because they feel they have no choice.

The success of the surge in Iraq was in part based around dividing and conquering (so to speak) 2 and 3 through various means, and turning them against 1. 3 is easy to recruit. 2 requires a good plan and a lot of resources. And all of it is to stop 1 dead in their tracks. That's essentially what the "Sunni Awakening" boiled down too.

The modern Republican Party and Conservative movement (and they are different) is not so different.

There are many people, particularly among the young or the educated in both factions, who are of (3) because they simply do not know what else to do in the Trump era, and are trying to weather the storm.

The vast majority of Republican voters are of the second type. The voted Trump because he had an (R) next to his name and they thought he was closer to their worldview than Democrats. These are not bad, hateful people. Sure, they may where a MAGA hat or say something silly about "crooked hillary" from time to time, but most are just trying to make their way in the world and put food on the table.

The reason so many people in (2) voted for Trump despite the elite of the Party nearly universally turning away from Trump has everything to do with the "all politics is local" axiom. Because it's generally true... what your State and Local government does has a far greater effect on your life day to day than the Federal Government. And with previous elections not having produced "change", they felt safe and far away enough from this "abstraction" we were dealing with about who would be the next President in this distant Washington government that doesn't really effect our lives, that they had far less of a problem throwing the Trump Grenade than we expected.

A key part to getting them to abandon Trump is to make what goes on in Washington matter to them so as to not be destructive with their votes. I think that is already happening to a degree.

Or let me put it like this: how many Trump voters would be okay with Donald Trump being their mayor or their governor? Probably a lot less than those okay with him being their President surprisingly enough.

The future Republican party will be ran by the people who are neither 1-2 or 3 like me, and populated by 2s and 3s, while the 1s go back to the lunatic fringe where they belong. The 2s will not vanish, but with a better deal, they will do what people in crowds often do, which is change their tone and minds to adhere. That is, after all, how many of them got INTO Trump in the first place.

And it must be said that the future Republican Party is going to likely incorporate a lot of centrists and conservative Democrats out there if they truly (and foolishly) decide to walk down the progressive wing. I mean this is kind of a hard question for the Democrats too, because they have a golden opportunity to grab a huge number of the center-right and the educated on the right.

I think one of the most astute analysis of the Trump phenomenon is that it was a reaction against America in the age of Obama becoming ever more a meritocracy that locked low-educated, low-skill Americans out of a avenues of advancement of various types. While obviously that problem must be seriously addressed (people to desperate things when deprived of dignity, such as the dignity from having a good job), I see American meritocracy as something to be encouraged and embraced, not feared.

if Democrats embrace the idea of , in part, being the party of the educated, the party of merit-based-achievement, and the party of of empowerment-through-work, then they'll find a lot of converts. If they go the full Bernie Sanders / Jeremy Corbyn though, they'll find a rejuvenated Republican Party around 2030 and squandered a once-in-a-century opportunity.

You;re a 1 Venant. I don't expect you to ever come around. I expect to politically fuck your kind into the dirt. I'm not interested in understanding or some kind of middle ground with the 1s. I'm interesting in screwing them so hard it acts as a deterrent. But Trump's support has collapsed over the last 8 months, and the chaos of the past month is going to weaken him further.

We don't have much to go. The 20s aren't far away.

Trump, our most reliable accomplice, will deliver.