What is Antifa or Anarchist in the U.S or anywhere?

[DJ117]

Easy. Antifa are good people who hit bad people (Nazis). What they do is morally right.

Gamergaters are bad people who harass/threaten good people. What they do is morally repugnant.

By the power of White Jesus, be cleansed of your falseness!

[Sama-81]

Or so the fringe right tells you.

Or so the security services tell you, in some countries. They would never name ANTIFA as such, of course, but rather use the term "the autonomous left". Which is a very wise stance, naturally, albeit opening up for loonies to "deny everything" in regards to ANTIFA being involved (and in fact being the main culprits). Luckily, for my part, I've seen personally exactly how horrible ANTIFA are willing to make themselves look, and they easily match our, admittedly rather pathetic, neo-nazis. Well, the latter doesn't straight out threaten the lives of pre-school children because one of their parents is a parliamentary politican, but they on the other hand do A LOT of other vile shit, so I guess both groups rather deserve each other (although noone else deserves either one).

ANTIFA, in short, is every bit as much of a domestic terror organization as neo-nazis are. Both are vile, hateful groups delighting in the use of violence.

[Doctor Amadeus]

So you have no conclusive proof that he has said anything of the sort? So how can you say for certain that he wishes death upon your people? Oh, right, you cannot, because you've always stuck him in the box of Neo-Nazism and assumed his ideals are the same as theirs.

Yes I can be sure, and yes I have unfortunately listen to his bullshit more times than I wish I hadn't forced myself to, just so I know who the hell he is, and yes it's the same nonsene, white nationalist, white separatist, white supremacy bullshit. Yes it is the exact same reasoning nothing especially over the top king of like a White Nation Of Islam group.

Only if you actually listen to his speeches and what he talks about not just the trolls he does and what not yes, he has made it very clear what wants and other whites should do to help them get it.

Look, I took the liberty of checking the absolute filth that is alternativeright website, and even in their article on "What it means to be alt right", there isn't even a single thing that directly promotes violence towards a certain ethnicity.

Well then you can have the pleasure of following that rabbit hole where it goes and finding out for yourself, but I heard enough to know what their platform was. Tried to do the same for Antifa but there isn't one.

In fact, they do speak about race, and clearly state that race is real (which I personally disagree with), but they do not say that the white man is or should be superior to all others.

Do you think I am trying to change your mind, because I am not. I am afraid you are going to have to go to his websites and play a little bit.

They do have some silly ideas of jews, but nowhere do they actually say that jews are inferior to the, or should be killed. I will quote it for you:
"At various times, they have existed within European societies, without being of them. The preservation of their identity as Jews was and is contingent on resistance to assimilation, sometimes expressed as hostility towards their hosts."

Yep, I notice you haven't dropped any of the bullet points of what Richard Spencer is advocating for Specifically not the rhetoric.

How can you know if you are unwilling to go through his statements? Part of rational debate is listening to your opponents, taking in their arguments and deconstructing them. Ofcourse you cannot know any of the valid points he has made if you are unwilling to actually listen and simply denounce him as a nazi.

I have listened to him on more than his website, more than a few interviews with the guy, more than his actual message being specifically delievered

Yet you earlier condoned the violence on Richard Spencer. You claimed you would be ok if they "chained, whipped and hung" him or any alt-right advocate. That's literally condoning violence.

I didn't punch him I am not going to punch him I am not even going to his damn website or having anything else to do with him, I am also not going to the Alt-Right rally's either. Doesn't mean I care what happens to him one way or another, he is a white supremacist Neo Nazi, whether you think that means something different now, it doesn't and that is what the Alt-Right is.

This thread was me asking about what Antifa was doing because I wanted to get it straight if someone was here from where as to what they do. Now I am talking to you about Richard Spencer, I will be honest I didn't expect this conversation to go this direction.

I mean if a person wants to follow the guy, what the hell am I going to do about that anymore than someone who wants to kill him. I am not going to go out of my way for him anymore than a leader of any other group that wants me and those like me dead. I seek out things unpleasant for knowledge, not because I get off on it as a way of stimulating imagination about Nazi's. They hate me.

And the thing is, they do not say that. They're white advocates.

And how can there be a dialogue if you refuse to listen to what the other side has to say?

Let me ask you a question have you ever had your friend put in the hospital with his head caved in because a group of Nazi's wanted to know what a nigger was doing in their neighborhood?

Have you ever actually tangled with a group of them in a group that had chains and fucking nunchuckas and shit? Well I have.


I have worked White Supremacist at my job, I have also worked wit a lot of other fucking idiots too, they don't bother me I don't bother them. I can live and let live, and we are fine like that.

But you know what unlike the ones I fought with they aren't near my house, I don't have to deal with that kind of shit either, and aside from dealing with who I directly want to I am not bothered.

But when it comes down to political issues and rallies and what not, make no mistake I know where those who are racist stand even if they don't admit to it publicly. Richard Spencer has, Like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, he specifically put himself up there as the leader of this Alt-Right Neo Nazi group.

So as such regardless to what he or Al Sharpton do, I really don't care generally.

But me and you are talking about politically unrest as it especially relates to those involved, and what their goals are, that and only that is why I said what I did about Richard Spencer, which is from the literature from his website and listening to his interviews.

I don't care about him outside of the hate and violence he preaches towards people like ME, so I HAVE TO CARE, because that is MY LIFE, Antifa isn't my problem right now.

Which is why yes I tried to do the same research on Antifa as I would with anybody and anything even if it's hard to sit through or listen, because you have to have the facts, and the facts are Richard Spencer is the leader of Alt-Right, they are tied to white supremacy and neo nazi's though their OWN Material. That is all I needed for my education.

So I don't endorse them or support them but I am not about to worry about Antifa for them.

How can they be faced with reason and logic if you will not even listen or speak to them?

I couldn't which is why I have, for no other reason than to get it from the source no filter, Louise Farrakhan seems nice too, but he does the exact same kind of shit, which is why I can call him a Black Separatist and Black Separatist along with a lot of things, I can say just like plenty of others.

It racism it hated, and it's a believe system based on destroying one target, or in this case before another.

Are you seeing to logical fallacies here?

Yeah but I respect their right to feel the way they feel and live the way they want to live, I just don't have to support it, or support them when inevitability they get themselves in trouble.

Just like the few idiots that might want to start a fight with the white man and gets plugged by cops, um I am not going to support the results of a choice of someone who acts like an idiot.

You cannot expect people to change their opinions before you are open to a dialogue. You need to be open to a dialogue and then speak to them with reason and logic in order for them to possibly change their stance.
You cannot accurately deconstruct and counter their arguments if you are unwilling to listen to them.

There has to be a point where you can't preach or teach people, I am not going to waste my time with someone who has the facts but chooses to be stupid. Racist, Neo Nazi's White Supremacist, Black Supremacist.

People higher up KNOW what they are doing like Benny Hinn who waves a coat and convinces people he heals people, I am a christian and I say this because I am not a believer in that bullshit.

Richard Spencers is an intelligent man period, but he still an idiot, because what he does has ZERO to do with that intellect, he has taken up a fucking cause and that is who and what he is.

I.Q can be 90 to 160 Your intellegence makes you less likely to be stupid but doesn't make one immune to stupidity. When emotions and passions override that intellect all bets are off.

That is why I try my best to refrain from that weakness, but I also don't need to make it a mission in my life to follow around people that hate me, or listen to arguments I have already listen to especially when I recognize some out of context fragment of an argument typically made by someone smart enough to get someone else to parrot it.

It is anarchist. Their flag represents it.

That was why that is one of the questions I asked. Just natural curiosity to know what something is, but when I find out I accept it for what it is, not what I want or wish it was.

I am not that much of a control freak.

- - - Updated - - -

I am playing devil's advocate to poke holes in your rhetoric. I personally do not care about race or skin color. Go figure why I never brought up my assumptions on it, nor asked you for it. It is not relevant to this discussion. But I think it is healthy to engage in discussion and being able to view things from another person's perspective without outright demonising them.

Ok, I respect that and I get it too, if some white kid has experienced racism and yes I can understand that does happen to anybody, I don't think that's funny if that is a real situation, and there is black racism also, and it isn't always about the power people perceive one to having. It isn't ok to blame all white people for racism, it isn't ok to run how anytime someone has a problem who isn't white a white guy absolutely has to be to blame.

And you know why that is bad even if you don't give a shit about white people, it's because it creates and fosters stupidity, and a false belief that it can always be the go to for any problem a person has, doesn't mean I don't understand how easy it can be for some to go there but it is.

Just because some feel white people all do something, by some perception it doesn't lend that all black people now MUCH do the same good or bad whatever. The race complex thing is STUPID as fuck.

But I get why some need it, I GET it could white kids need that too, well I guess I don't know, but where does that lead. Because I can tell you from experience that when black people are propped up with the "Black is Beautiful thing" it's great, but it can also go way over board and tends to lead towards over compensating and the same places it does with white supremacist.

It's human nature to want to be validated, unfortunately it is also human nature to want to be validated for stupid shit without any actual work, Being born a race isn't a choice, shouldn't be a thing to be ashamed or proud of.

It is important to realise how and why the alt-right has been gaining popularity. If a person of color can use their race as part of their identity, why can white people not do the same?

If a black guy holds up a liquire store should a white person do the same? UH NO White people owned Black Slaves in the south, Should Black People own White Slaves in the South? UH NO

But I am sure there are idiots who would find ways to make arguments for that. If it's stupid as you pointed out with Antifa then why the fuck would they engage in the very thing they are against?

Because maybe people need to stop looking for an excuse to do something shitty and think first.

Because that is what the regressive left media is trying to push on to people.

Ok I will take this one, I am regressive left, and I didn't tell the media or anybody else to tell you shit. They also didn't ask me, so lets try to logic here why the fuck would a multi billion dollar media company dependent on advertising dollars push anything?

And it's mostly this inequality in terms of freedom of expression that has pushed a lot of people to the alt-right. And if we want to limit the power of the alt-right, the regressive left media needs to be open to that same freedom of expression without resorting to insults on the people.
By calling anyone an idiot for who race is a part of their identity, you are being counter productive in that aspect. Let's be respectful.

I don't care about being respectful to idiots, and if I am being an idiot you feel free to do the same not that you need my permission, identity politics is stupid, is it needed, I don't know I personally don't fucking need it, but hell lots of people are snowflakes right and lefts so maybe.

I guess it's hard taking a chance and being wrong or right all by ones self.

I have made it abundantly clear several times that I do not agree with what the alt right sells to people. I merely do not condone violence and am an advocate for free speech.

I don't condone violence either but if some guy said he wanted to do this, that and the third to your wife, and you kicked his ass, or wanted, I am not going to feel bad for that guy. Especially if he said she should be killed because ________. People, life it is a risky proposition.

I am merely defending their right to say the things they say, and clarifying the fact that they and nazis are two different groups. I am arguing that instead of demonising them as neo-nazis, perhaps you should actually listen to what is being said rather than assume things and wish they be "chained, whipped and hung".

Well Nazi and Richard Spencer represent the same thing, he leads the alt right, the alt right wanted to unite the right and who was it that was on the guest list?

I am not saying you must listen, just as they have the right of free speech, you have the freedom to choose not to listen if you do not want to. But it is counter productive not even being open to a dialogue about this without resorting to petulant insults.

You are acting as if Neo Nazi is an insult? Then why are they on the guest list... let me stop you because they are white, and because they have a history of doing lots of great white things, which Richard Spencer is also on about.

That isn't an insult that is the unite right and white identity you just spoke of. I mean if Spencer is going to change things and it's different then that would be a really good question as to why they would invite someone who is a Nazi, or why it would be an insult to call alt-right or right wingers Nazi's.

Farrahkhan IS NOT invited to my BBQ Neither is Antifa, now if you see them their obviously I invited them and must be ok with them right?

please do not assume such things about me. I do not hate you any more than I hate the pet bunny of my neighbours, I have no reason to hate you. Do not fall into the trap of typical authoritarian leftism of associating arguing against or poking holes in your logic as hate. I even commended you for having kept this discussion civil up until now, shame you didn't manage to keep it that way.

I am not arguing from your perspective because we aren't the same you're not like me and I am not like you. You are a conservative near as I can tell, you for sure believe in white nationalism although you wouldn't go any further to identity beyond that, you might be "proud to be white" but of course the follow up to that is proud to be white over what?

You really can't follow that line of reasoning without arriving to certain questions. Civil isn't the same as nice, and I am being both.

But that is more than Alt-Right extends to anyone if you are

You are methodical though, I get that.

[JohnBrown1917]

They also try to bring everyone on the right under the neo-nazi label in attempt to deplatform them. And that is counter productive.

Haha, what the fuck. I can already see the excuses. "But moooom, the evul antifa cultural Marxist forced me to be a nazi and gas the jews!!!"

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Both of those statements are objectively false. Please try again.

Like when GG was talking about 'both sides are equally bad' about charlotteville.

lol, GG a good thing.. what a joke.

[Putin-Chan]

imma leave this here. They sound like the sound, rational opposition of tyranny that the founding fathers so desperately wanted. it's not like their goal is to denounce the US Constitution and put cities into rebellion.

[Deleted]

Antifa is a anti-nationalist movement. Left parties are restricted to they countries which is a contradiction in itself - Antifa wants equality and justice on a global level.

[Sharein]

Rote Armee Fraktion 2.0 and neo-communists.

[Karrotlord]

Haha, what the fuck. I can already see the excuses. "But moooom, the evul antifa cultural Marxist forced me to be a nazi and gas the jews!!!"

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Like when GG was talking about 'both sides are equally bad' about charlotteville.

lol, GG a good thing.. what a joke.

You realize calling everyone nazis doesn't actually make it so?

And what the fuck does GG even have to do with Charlottesville?

[Elba]

Both of those statements are objectively false. Please try again.

How so? Antifa fight Nazis. That is good.

Gamergaters harass and threaten women. That is bad.

[Molis]

Easy. Antifa are good people who hit bad people (Nazis). What they do is morally right.

Gamergaters are bad people who harass/threaten good people. What they do is morally repugnant.

They also attack the center.

Anyone right of them is a Nazi. They maybe bored college kids, but they are not good people.

Not denouncing them is as bad as not denouncing neo-nazis.

[Elba]

They also attack the center.

Anyone right of them is a Nazi. They maybe bored college kids, but they are not good people.

Not denouncing them is as bad as not denouncing neo-nazis.

Completely false. Antifa defend clergy, churches, synagogues from Nazis

[Sharein]

How so? Antifa fight Nazis. That is good.

Poor simpleton.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

If those things are true they'd be perfect for the army.

Hey, if you feel the Army doesn't require effort, consider this your personal invitation to come try out. It's a good living, and sure beats living in your mom's basement.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

How so? Antifa fight Nazis. That is good.

Gamergaters harass and threaten women. That is bad.

Antifa fight anyone they want, all they have to do is call whoever a Nazi.

No, that is not what Gamergate was about. Gamergate was about ethics in videogame journalism. Please try again.

[Z-Man]

Anyone right of them is a Nazi.

According to our local Confederates, anyone left of the Nazis is Antifa. "You don't want to own slaves again? You must be Antifa!"

[Endus]

Yet all we see from the authoritarian left as of late has been suppression of free speech and thought policing.

The "authoritarian left" is basically a fabricated boogeyman of your creation. It certainly doesn't reflect most left-wing views, which lean more libertarian than right-wing ideological views, in the developed world, for the most part.

And it's obviously wrong when applied to Antifa specifically, who are extremist anti-authoritarians by definition.

So all you're doing here is engaging in partisan slander.

[Draeth]

Antifa is just short for anti-fascist. The default position of a lucid person should be anti-fascist.

The people that everyone on the right has their panties in a bunch about are black bloc, and you all sound absolutely ridiculous calling anti-fascism terrorism.

[Ahovv]

The "authoritarian left" is basically a fabricated boogeyman of your creation. It certainly doesn't reflect most left-wing views, which lean more libertarian than right-wing ideological views, in the developed world, for the most part.

And it's obviously wrong when applied to Antifa specifically, who are extremist anti-authoritarians by definition.

So all you're doing here is engaging in partisan slander.

I'm not disagreeing that Antifa is mostly anarchist, but at a certain point it's just semantics and not really arguing the core issue.

Suppression of free speech *is* a popular idea as of late. People think it's *actually a good idea* to protest an event because someone says something racist or otherwise disagreeable.

What happened to just not caring? Protesters seem convinced that if they don't shut down events, the USA will be overcome with neo-Nazis. If anything the Streisand Effect just draws more attention to these controversial speakers than they would normally receive.

[Endus]

I'm not disagreeing that Antifa is mostly anarchist, but at a certain point it's just semantics and not really arguing the core issue.

Suppression of free speech *is* a popular idea as of late. People think it's *actually a good idea* to protest an event because someone says something racist or otherwise disagreeable.

That's not "suppression of free speech". That is free speech. You are literally complaining that people you disagree with have freedom of speech, here. While projecting that onto your opponents.

Counter-protests are themselves as much free speech as the protest they're protesting.

Firing people (or other social consequences) for their speech is the free action of other private citizens in response to that speech, as is their right, and in no way "suppresses" speech. You can tell because the person fired is still able to speak their mind.

Being barred from private platforms is the right of the platform owner, who isn't required to host anyone they don't want to. This also doesn't "suppress speech", it just denies access to one private platform. You're free to speak in public spaces or use your own platform.

[Elba]

Antifa fight anyone they want, all they have to do is call whoever a Nazi.

Nah. They fight Nazis and defend for example churches and synagogues from them.

No, that is not what Gamergate was about. Gamergate was about ethics in videogame journalism. Please try again.

Just as much as the Nazi rallies are "free speech" rallies.