New Mercy Rework on PTR

[Deleted]

i really dont like people who don't main or play mercy keep calling her a no skill hero, especially with the dive meta running rampant. she undoubtedly requires a ton of skill, everything besides having perfect aim.

i'm not a fan of the changes so far, it makes more sense to me that valkyrie mode boosts her defenses, not her offense, since she supposed to heal and support during her ult, not attack :/


Also, this means 1 of the 2 counters to zarya ult combo is gone. Now the only reliable counter to a zarya ult combo is zenyatta's ult. I expect Zarya to be a go to tank in season 6 mainly because of this.

[Jester Joe]

I don't see this at all. What I see is people's kneejerk reactions to a sweeping rework + gfycats/Twitch clips of a world reknowned top 500 player using a non-nerfed version of Mercy's ult in addition to Ana's nanoboost on the PTR against unorganized randoms. Which is what you should be doing to see what crazy bullshit you can pull off so Blizzard can see what should remain and what shouldn't. They already said they were going to nerf the pistol damage and I can't fathom that being the only change they make to her.

Except in the dev update, they literally mentioned Battle Mercys will enjoy the ult, and that they know they're out there.

I still stand by what I said. They need to gut the offensive part to prevent that.

[Ealyssa]

Nano Valkyrie in action: https://clips.twitch.tv/AgreeableZanyPoxRaccAttack

Yeaaaaah. Thaught exactly of this when I read the patch note "Just nano boost it, It will be stupidly OP"

Going to be nerfed to the ground, making Mercy an effectively useless char. Was fun while it lasted my swiss angel <3

[Twen]

Its honestly bad for the game. Its taking the lazy route of making a character "more engaging" by basically just making them more into a DPS. Sym and Lucio were done correctly because they remained the same at their core. Sym got more utility to do her job better, and Aggressive Lucio play won out over passive Lucio play.

Bit OT but I'm gonna have to somewhat disagree here regarding Lúcio, as it annoys me to no end. Firstly, of course aggro play is part of Lúcio's repertoire. However, after his big change, if I don't play him myself then 9/10 times it's some yolo-stylist who's completely useless to the team. They go off on their own to "harass" the enemy team or whatever, literally never healing/speed boosting/peeling (unless someone accidentally happened in their aura for a moment while they were on their way somewhere) nor getting any kills in exchange either. Sooner or later they tend to die due to being grossly overextended alone and thus creating many 5v6 situations for the enemy's favor. What little disruption they might be creating there is in no shape or form worth that. While it's not entirely the fault of the design how people choose to use it, the changes undeniably encouraged this retarded behavior and that is bloody bad for the game. (Even had gold-bordered, consistently master-ranked Lúcio doing this exact same stuff for two games in Hanamura with the only difference being that he didn't die that much, but he was still 0 help to the rest of the team and it fricking boggles the mind.)

Yes, I'm sure that in coordinated 6-stacks this isn't a problem but that's not what I'm talking about. Sorry for the rant but does it ever grate my gears, I'm starting to hate nothing more than having random Lúcios, even bad snipers tend to be more helpful as they at least sometimes kill something. Him being my favorite character kind of makes it even worse...

On topic, I'm tentatively happy about the resurrection change both for playing Mercy and against her. Not entirely sure how to feel about the multipurpose ultimate but we'll see, at least sounds like it has a lot of potential. Though in the light of above, I can understand how some people might be a little concerned about her new-found offensive capabilities, seeing how giving less of that created endless hordes of terrible flanker-Lúcios who have completely forgotten what support means.

[Jester Joe]

On topic, I'm tentatively happy about the resurrection change both for playing Mercy and against her. Not entirely sure how to feel about the multipurpose ultimate but we'll see, at least sounds like it has a lot of potential. Though in the light of above, I can understand how some people might be a little concerned about her new-found offensive capabilities, seeing how giving less of that created endless hordes of terrible flanker-Lúcios who have completely forgotten what support means.

Exactly what I've been basically trying to say, minus using Lucio as an example.

It's like when people saw Seagull playing Genji, and everyone decided "I need to copy that and wipe out teams". They're gonna see people wiping out teams with Mercy, and this "wow, now I need to do that" and they'll be playing Mercy for the completely wrong reasons.

[NoiseTank13]

Exactly what I've been basically trying to say, minus using Lucio as an example.

It's like when people saw Seagull playing Genji, and everyone decided "I need to copy that and wipe out teams". They're gonna see people wiping out teams with Mercy, and this "wow, now I need to do that" and they'll be playing Mercy for the completely wrong reasons.

Mercy is not going to be wiping teams within 20 seconds of her ultimate activating on any consistent basis. This is some Chicken Little stuff going on here. There's too many counters, too many places for cover, and leading with projectiles on a nerfed gun can be a difficult task for a lot of people. She's no longer invulnerable, she can fly yes but very predictably (she is going to go where she is facing).

I do not understand this line of reasoning. I can't wrap my head around it. You are advocating crushing(subpar) options to a binary Hero in desperate need of changes and options to be a more engaging experience for both the player and their team just because of the off-chance your Mercy will ult and abandon her team in a shitty decision to engage a harassing Sombra instead of chain healing/boosting for greater value and flying to safety from the enemy team.

You can't balance dumbassery.

[Endus]

i really dont like people who don't main or play mercy keep calling her a no skill hero, especially with the dive meta running rampant. she undoubtedly requires a ton of skill, everything besides having perfect aim.

Mercy has arguably the lowest skill floor of any hero. Aiming ability is essentially irrelevant. Unlike Symmetra, she avoids putting herself at risk. She has some of the best and easiest-to-use mobility in the game with her dash and slowfall, especially given its incredibly short CD. Good Mercy play basically boils down to;

A> battlefield awareness, to avoid being flanked (important for EVERYONE)
B> knowing which heroes to prioritize for healing (critical for EVERY healer, even Lucio)
C> knowing when to swap to damage beam (basically, when people don't need heals/when someone's ulting, not complex)
And D> knowing to hide and get ready for a rez.

Only C> and D> are really unique to Mercy. And neither is particularly hard to learn, and there isn't that high a skill ceiling with either. Sure, really good Mercy mains will still do well, but they're really good at A> and B>; skills that translate to any other support.

To compare, let's look at Zenyatta (my current main). In addition to the same A> and B>, you've got;
C> Knowing which targets to discord, based on who the team should be focusing, including calling these out if necessary
D> Personal aim with a weapon with travel time, making leading the target a necessary skill over and above accurate aim, which is also needed
E> Knowing when to pop Transcendence, either at the start of a big push where you almost died, to avoid your death and get the team through that first blast, or to counter another damage ult like Reaper/Pharah/Hanzo/etc.
F> Knowing how/when to use your right-click for picks/peeking

That's a higher skill floor and ceiling than Mercy. Not that I'm even saying Zenyatta is particularly complex; high-end Lucio and Ana play have much higher skill ceilings, particularly Lucio with wallriding shenanigans.

This is a big reason I support these changes; Mercy encouraged bad gameplay, and these changes will both boost her skill floor/ceiling somewhat and encourage better teamplay, since current rez essentially requires that your team "lose" a fight to be a truly effective ult, even if you pop it after just 2 deaths to avoid the full wipe.

Also, this means 1 of the 2 counters to zarya ult combo is gone. Now the only reliable counter to a zarya ult combo is zenyatta's ult. I expect Zarya to be a go to tank in season 6 mainly because of this.

Or "don't group up so you don't all get caught in it". Barriers help against some things.

Honestly, given that Valkyrie outclasses Orisa's ultimate so hard, and that Orisa is supposed to be defensive rather than offensive, I'd replace Supercharger with a similar totem which, instead of a damage boost, does the same kind of beam granting damage-immunity for 5 seconds. Just long enough to counter ultimates. That'd also fit the descriptor.

I really dislike the "let everyone on your team get wrecked while you watch and do nothing, so you can pop a rez and start over" gameplay that currently is encouraged.

[Deleted]

Mercy takes more situational awareness than any other hero, you need to know where everyone, both teams, are at all times so you can avoid them and fly to the next. You need to know who's getting the kills so you can get the most from damage boost. You need to know basically everything that's happening, all the time. Meanwhile 99% of DPS heroes get by with tunnel visioning their reticle and being reasonably good at pointing and clicking. Aim is not the only skill in this game, only a fucking retard would think it was; and if it was, then shit, Widow would be a must pick, all the time, every time, and nothing ever could change that.

You claim you want more defensive options, but you've been the prime cheerleader here for cutting DM entirely. And that was the most high skill defensive option in the game. You don't want defence at all, you want to point and click adventure through.

Oh, and they've also nerfed D.Va's new missiles already.

Weren't you like platinum or something? By typing stuff like this you pretty much confirm it.

[Endus]

Weren't you like platinum or something? By typing stuff like this you pretty much confirm it.

Comments like this are really unhelpful, especially when, unless things have changed since Season 3 or there's some commentary that updated this, the median rank is just above 2300. Meaning plat players are significantly above the average. At the time, only about 8% of the player base was above plat. I can't imagine the distribution has really changed that much.

I don't agree with Jessicka on this, but hey, I'm plat too. So is she right because I'm platinum, and therefore wrong? Or is she? Or is the idea of dismissing stuff based on rank reductive and silly?

[Deleted]

Comments like this are really unhelpful, especially when, unless things have changed since Season 3 or there's some commentary that updated this, the median rank is just above 2300. Meaning plat players are significantly above the average. At the time, only about 8% of the player base was above plat. I can't imagine the distribution has really changed that much.

I don't agree with Jessicka on this, but hey, I'm plat too. So is she right because I'm platinum, and therefore wrong? Or is she? Or is the idea of dismissing stuff based on rank reductive and silly?

When you say stuff that Mercy requires the most situational awareness out of every hero, you lose all credibility with me.

I apologize for bringing nothing noteworthy to the discussion, but stuff like that just annoy me.

[Jester Joe]

Mercy is not going to be wiping teams within 20 seconds of her ultimate activating on any consistent basis. This is some Chicken Little stuff going on here. There's too many counters, too many places for cover, and leading with projectiles on a nerfed gun can be a difficult task for a lot of people. She's no longer invulnerable, she can fly yes but very predictably (she is going to go where she is facing).

I do not understand this line of reasoning. I can't wrap my head around it. You are advocating crushing(subpar) options to a binary Hero in desperate need of changes and options to be a more engaging experience for both the player and their team just because of the off-chance your Mercy will ult and abandon her team in a shitty decision to engage a harassing Sombra instead of chain healing/boosting for greater value and flying to safety from the enemy team.

You can't balance dumbassery.

Show me a team that's already reliably taking out a Pharah (who has an even more predictable path while flying and moves slower), and then sure.

But you know as well as I know Pharah already has issues being taken out, even Blizzard acknowledged this when they were tweaking D.Va to be able to fly and shoot.

And yes, I'm advocating crushing it because all heroes are pretty much binary already. You don't need this type of nonsensical ult that doesn't even fit the pacifist that she is. The person who told Torb "don't you dare use my tech to make a sniper weapon" is suddenly going to have a suit that lets her murder? Also, why do you have such an issue with the offensive part being removed if you're so sure that no one will ever use it that way? ESPECIALLY after Blizzard even gave a shout out to Battle Mercy's?

[xChurch]

Show me a team that's already reliably taking out a Pharah (who has an even more predictable path while flying and moves slower), and then sure.

But you know as well as I know Pharah already has issues being taken out, even Blizzard acknowledged this when they were tweaking D.Va to be able to fly and shoot.

And yes, I'm advocating crushing it because all heroes are pretty much binary already. You don't need this type of nonsensical ult that doesn't even fit the pacifist that she is. The person who told Torb "don't you dare use my tech to make a sniper weapon" is suddenly going to have a suit that lets her murder? Also, why do you have such an issue with the offensive part being removed if you're so sure that no one will ever use it that way? ESPECIALLY after Blizzard even gave a shout out to Battle Mercy's?

I feel like the novelty of a kick-ass battle Mercy will die out pretty fast. I'm sure there will always be some kickin around, but I can't imagine 20 seconds of crazy pistol action now and then will really feel like super compelling gameplay for a lot of people. Especially given how powerful her beams can be in Valk mode, Mercy is my least liked hero atm and I might actually try her more if I can dmg boost my whole team so often. In either case, I'll do my part by going Ape on all the battle Mercy's I can find.

[Endus]

When you say stuff that Mercy requires the most situational awareness out of every hero, you lose all credibility with me.

I apologize for bringing nothing noteworthy to the discussion, but stuff like that just annoy me.

My issue wasn't that you thought she was wrong, it was the "because you're only plat" part that I took issue with. I agree she's wrong, but mocking/dismissing people for not being in the top 5% of players isn't helpful.

Hell, I was big into theorycrafting back when I was a Shaman mod. My guild was on a small server and was never cutting-edge for pushing content. Understanding the mathematics and strategy and being able to execute them with a team are two different skillsets.

- - - Updated - - -

And yes, I'm advocating crushing it because all heroes are pretty much binary already. You don't need this type of nonsensical ult that doesn't even fit the pacifist that she is. The person who told Torb "don't you dare use my tech to make a sniper weapon" is suddenly going to have a suit that lets her murder? Also, why do you have such an issue with the offensive part being removed if you're so sure that no one will ever use it that way? ESPECIALLY after Blizzard even gave a shout out to Battle Mercy's?

I think the root of the issue is that she gets boosted damage AND boosted fire rate AND unlimited ammo. That's too much. Pick one, either damage or fire rate. You can justify that lore-wise by saying the Valkyrie protocol boosts her reaction times/power, and that affects her pistol use too, but it won't be enough to make anyone go RAWR PISTOL POWER PEWPEWPEW either. Other than those hilarious moments when the Ana accidentally ults you, which already happens regardless because it's funny.

[Deleted]

I can see the memes already.

Mercy pops ult, orisa pops ult, mercy dmg boosts entire group, and then you ult a soldier, and bye everyone.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeaaaaah. Thaught exactly of this when I read the patch note "Just nano boost it, It will be stupidly OP"

Going to be nerfed to the ground, making Mercy an effectively useless char. Was fun while it lasted my swiss angel <3

To be honest, in that video nobody moved and they just tanked the damage, no wonder she killed everyone.

They'll just nerf her regeneration during valkyrie, and then she'll be just like pharah, mowed down within seconds of popping her ult.

[Jester Joe]

I feel like the novelty of a kick-ass battle Mercy will die out pretty fast. I'm sure there will always be some kickin around, but I can't imagine 20 seconds of crazy pistol action now and then will really feel like super compelling gameplay for a lot of people. Especially given how powerful her beams can be in Valk mode, Mercy is my least liked hero atm and I might actually try her more if I can dmg boost my whole team so often. In either case, I'll do my part by going Ape on all the battle Mercy's I can find.

It really depends on how fast she gets her ult in my opinion. If it's still similar in speed to now (maybe it is, I'm not sure), then you'll be able to spend a decent amount of time with the ult up overall.

If it's a far longer charge, then yes, people will probably get bored of waiting for it.
The reason I'm pretty passionate about this actually is because Mercy is one of my favorite heroes at the moment.

I think the root of the issue is that she gets boosted damage AND boosted fire rate AND unlimited ammo. That's too much. Pick one, either damage or fire rate. You can justify that lore-wise by saying the Valkyrie protocol boosts her reaction times/power, and that affects her pistol use too, but it won't be enough to make anyone go RAWR PISTOL POWER PEWPEWPEW either. Other than those hilarious moments when the Ana accidentally ults you, which already happens regardless because it's funny.

I think someone on the Overwatch forums put it perfectly, and they said that the ult feels far too messy and all over the place. What exactly are you intended to accomplish with it? It has offense AND support rolled into one.

Think about it, every other ult is pretty much straight forward how it works, the most unique ult in that case would be Symmetra having to decide which ult would be more useful.

Mercy's ult though? It has so much packed into it, it leaves the Mercy at a loss as to what is the best choice to do. Do you fly in and try to take out the Widowmaker quickly and hope your other healer covers your team? Or do you boost your whole team and hope someone takes out the Widowmaker for you? Or do you use it as a glorified Zenyatta ult and hope the Widow can't headshot? I mean, in a game like Overwatch anyway, stacking up is usually the worst thing you can do unless you have a Reinhardt, but even then, it can still end up badly.

Yeah, sure, that's more "interactive" of an ult, and does require more skill, but...why is that needed when it's now the only ult that's so over the top?

[xChurch]

It really depends on how fast she gets her ult in my opinion. If it's still similar in speed to now (maybe it is, I'm not sure), then you'll be able to spend a decent amount of time with the ult up overall.

If it's a far longer charge, then yes, people will probably get bored of waiting for it.
The reason I'm pretty passionate about this actually is because Mercy is one of my favorite heroes at the moment.

The way it was talked about in the dev update does give me some concern in this area. Kaplan made it sound almost like it would be up really often which I definitely think would encourage more battle Mercy play since I can see it feeling more fun than just hiding to the side beaming people. I'm hoping it's more on the long CD side just because it already has a decent duration.

If the battle Mercy becomes too common a sight, I think they should remove either the unlimited ammo or faster fire rate buff since both combined are just a little much. Being able to score 1-2 kills with ult up is nice here and there, being able to murder most of a team, not so much. Rather not have her ult end up being even more frusterating than a 5 person res. Sadly I think it'll need to be live for a bit before we really can understand the breadth of these changes on the game since barely anyone uses the PTR.

[Endus]

I think someone on the Overwatch forums put it perfectly, and they said that the ult feels far too messy and all over the place. What exactly are you intended to accomplish with it? It has offense AND support rolled into one.

Think about it, every other ult is pretty much straight forward how it works, the most unique ult in that case would be Symmetra having to decide which ult would be more useful.

Mercy's ult though? It has so much packed into it, it leaves the Mercy at a loss as to what is the best choice to do. Do you fly in and try to take out the Widowmaker quickly and hope your other healer covers your team? Or do you boost your whole team and hope someone takes out the Widowmaker for you? Or do you use it as a glorified Zenyatta ult and hope the Widow can't headshot? I mean, in a game like Overwatch anyway, stacking up is usually the worst thing you can do unless you have a Reinhardt, but even then, it can still end up badly.

Yeah, sure, that's more "interactive" of an ult, and does require more skill, but...why is that needed when it's now the only ult that's so over the top?

Yeah, I agree. I like the basic concept, but if it were me, I'd;

A> remove all but one of the pistol boosts, either damage or rate of fire, or possibly remove them all. The only reason to keep any is to give her an anti-flanker tool for self-defense; if it's any stronger than that, it's too much.

B> No speed boost. She can fly. That's more than enough.

Support ultimates shine when they save the day. That's why rez was so focused on. It's how all the other support ults work, with the arguable exception of Symmetra's, which basically does but in a non-flashy way unlike the others. Mercy going Valkyrie and AoE healing her team and then shifting to damage boost to counterattack is cool, and very support-y. That should be what they're driving at. If the mechanics are pushing her outside of that (to crazy pistol lady, say), then they need some tweaking.

Her pistol, while ulting, should ALWAYS be a secondary preference to just damage-boosting her team. It should be a last-ditch "you killed them all, Reaper, and now I'M COMING FOR YOU" thing, nothing more.

[NoiseTank13]

Her pistol, while ulting, should ALWAYS be a secondary preference to just damage-boosting her team. It should be a last-ditch "you killed them all, Reaper, and now I'M COMING FOR YOU" thing, nothing more.

That's what I've been saying, and that's what it's going to be. Anyone not using it for anything than that is not using it optimally, dare I say, correctly. This Chicken Little "Augh she can do damage rip Support Merch no one is going to heal with her" meme is ridiculous.

[Deleted]

What i'm curious about, is target selectio from using your revive now after the rework. Lets say allies die really close to eachother, maybe from a zarya ult, how easy is it to select the right person to ress? From what I've seen its proximity based like her old ult, but with smaller range? Will you be able to reliably ress the person you want if multiple die in close proximity?

[Daws001]

They could remove the pistol buffs entirely and I'd be fine. Flying and aoe beams have me excited. I don't want the least used and important part of her kit to be what's holding things up with her or causing consternation. Just get rid of it or leave it at unlimited ammo and move on.

I want Mercy 2.0 on live asap (: