[Spoilers] Illidan, the greatest hypocritical douche of all times.

[JustRob]

To be honest I never completely trusted the Naaru. Strange, other worldly beings who don't say much, but almost everyone they encounter immediately kneels down before them and submits to their will. Khadgar in TBC did nothing but stand two feet from A'dal. The blood elves sent by Kael'thas to attack Shattrath immediately laid down their arms and knelt for it. I don't trust them.

[Almatari]

You could argue that cinematic had a very anti-theistic analogy

Basically a god was forcing its 'Religion' onto someone by force in the pretext it is all for the common good.

Blizzard writing has been terrible for years now and this is a pervasive theme in basically most of their most recent titles like SC2 and of course, Diablo.
They take a very dim and contemptuous viewpoint on religion or just any group they perceive as stiff and antiquated and use that as very cheap writing material. While they're not wrong about how blindly following dogmatic viewpoints can be a handicap, this is the only theme they seem interested in exploring in their stories. It's like Family Guy level writing. They assume everyone will guffaw and scoff in agreement.
It's pedestrian, low-hanging fruit material.

"Four legs good! Two legs bad!"

[tristannarutofan]

Blizzard writing has been terrible for years now and this is a pervasive theme in basically most of their most recent titles like SC2 and of course, Diablo.
They take a very Pragmatic and Realistic viewpoint on religion or just any group they perceive as stiff and antiquated and use that as very cheap writing material. While they're not wrong about how blindly following dogmatic viewpoints can be a handicap, this is the only theme they seem interested in exploring in their stories. It's like Family Guy level writing. They assume everyone will guffaw and scoff in agreement.
It's pedestrian, low-hanging fruit material.

"Four legs good! Two legs bad!"

Fixed part of your post for you.

Though that does fix the hearsay and blatant lies. Most of their stories are jokes, simple Community working together stories, and good vs evil.

If you are hyperfixated on the fact that in a world where ever religious organization has commited the most horrible attrocities the human race has ever seen, that some writers choose to explore that in some of their medium, it sounds like the problem might be your own

[Deleted]

As far I udnerstand, things are like this:

For Illidan the most important thing is destroying the Legion. The legion is very powerful so he needs a fuckton of power.

He is ready to do anything as long as it gives him more power.

He figured letting a glowing kanji have her way with him would change him into something he isd not, but not bring him more power. Just a different kind of power.

That is not a good enough reason for him so he instead killed the little bitch, theereby also proving that he is stronger.

Make no mistake I personally think that WCIII:TFT was the last time Warcraft's writing was good, but based on what we know about Illidan as of his novel, this moment fits easily with his character.

Fixed part of your post for you.

Though that does fix the hearsay and blatant lies. Most of their stories are jokes, simple Community working together stories, and good vs evil.

If you are hyperfixated on the fact that in a world where ever religious organization has commited the most horrible attrocities the human race has ever seen, that some writers choose to explore that in some of their medium, it sounds like the problem might be your own

Your stance: Religion is bad and if you think this is offensive something is very wrong with you.

Gee I wonder why people feel marginalized and embrace religious extremism.

Just a friendly reminder by an atheist that you are also part of the problem.

[tristannarutofan]

? Seeing that Illidan was ready to throw himself into a fight with KJ in Argus before TBC, and will be using himself as the jailor for Sargeras later (hope this won't be counted as spoiler since the datamined dialogue has been around for a while) - supposedly (in lore) for a long time if not eternity, I'd say that he's pretty fine with sacrificing himself. That isn't even something new: he also sacrificed his humanity (well, elvenity) for powers, partly for his own gain and partly to defeat his enemy.

Personally, I think a lot of people just either misunderstood what sacrificing means, or over-glorified the word. Sacrificing yourself is usually praised as a great act and all, but it's not the only form of sacrificing. The word simply means trading / giving up something gain other things. Sacrificing your followers is also an act of sacrificing, sacrificing some part of your bodies and take in a massive burden in your mind to gain power is sacrificing as well. Heck, people nowadays even ask others to sacrifice just one or two meals for hungry children. That's what sacrificing means, it's nothing that grand. I don't think it's right to chastise Illidan that he never sacrificed himself (and by this, I assume most people meant his life). Not every lives weight the same. The more important people shouldn't be trying to sacrifice him (or her) self over trivial matters / small victories unless they are stupid. You can easily replace random fodder A, replacing extremely powerful leader B is a lot harder. After all, many generals all over history sacrificed their soldiers to gain victory without even being on the battlefield and no one said anything about that. The question is just whether he would be willing to sacrifice himself when / if the situation call for it. Again, judging by his plan during TBC and what's going to happen at the end of Antorus raid, I'd say he will be.

All in all, Illidan's beliefs are to do anything for the Legion's defeat, even if it means sacrificing others or even yourself. In Xe'ra's case, it didn't apply. Illidan didn't think that's an act that would help to defeat the Legion (going by what he told Turalyon "There is no chosen one, only we can save ourselves"), so he didn't go along. His belief never was to give yourself to other beings (in fact, he just told Velen shortly before that to forge his own path). Neither was it to respect about others' freedom, though, he just didn't care and go about it in a might-makes-right manner. Thus, I don't see his action in the cinematic as hypocrisy. Double-standard, maybe, but not hypocrisy.

wow hit the nail on the head here.

you hit a poitn i've wanted to talk about. that Illidan has sacrificed others because he realized in the grand scheme of things their existence was worthless but by taking from them their lives could have meaning. Both in his campaign in outland and in the War of the Ancients. During that battle the entire army would have fallen if he spent time trying to convince the fellow mages to end their lives so they could combine their power in one source and overpower the enemy. And in the grand scheme of things the legion will destroy EVERYTHING so in his mind if a few dozen broken people of a dead world die a little early to stop trillions of deaths across the galaxy then it is noble. You can see int he demon hunter starting zone that Demon hunters honor each others and non demon hunters deaths . they just dont waste time mourning them.

Naturally this is still morally wrong but thats beside the point i'm trying to make.

So many have died either to create the powerhouse that is illidan's body, or to enact his plans (such as the souls and lives killed to first open the path to take the sargerite keystone WHICH is the only reason we can invade argus now).

I think Illidan's reaction was closer to a ptsd of being in the same situation as Sargeras, of having his body violated in order to become a weapon, again. However that also trading in his demonic power for Naaru power would have essentially made the sacrifices of everyone who had devoted themselves to him, or people that He killed in order to get the sargerite keystone worthless.

He doesnt want redemption because he knows he doesnt deserve it. His scars and form are a constant reminder of everything he's sacrificed, everONE he's sacrificed.

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As far I udnerstand, things are like this:

For Illidan the most important thing is destroying the Legion. The legion is very powerful so he needs a fuckton of power.

He is ready to do anything as long as it gives him more power.

He figured letting a glowing kanji have her way with him would change him into something he isd not, but not bring him more power. Just a different kind of power.

That is not a good enough reason for him so he instead killed the little bitch, theereby also proving that he is stronger.

Make no mistake I personally think that WCIII:TFT was the last time Warcraft's writing was good, but based on what we know about Illidan as of his novel, this moment fits easily with his character.



Your stance: Religion is bad and if you think this is offensive something is very wrong with you.

Gee I wonder why people feel marginalized and embrace religious extremism.

Just a friendly reminder by an atheist that you are also part of the problem.

blizz:" hey sometimes people blindly follow religion and thats bad"

You:" They obviously hate all religous people because they are petty"

Me:"no they are just pointing out things that actually happen"

you:"see people are completely justified in mass murdering people because you think religion is bad"

gg you nutter butter

[Deleted]

blizz:" hey sometimes people blindly follow religion and thats bad"

You:" They obviously hate all religous people because they are petty"

Me:"no they are just pointing out things that actually happen"

you:"see people are completely justified in mass murdering people because you think religion is bad"

gg you nutter butter

him: I agree that blindly following religion is bad, but I think it is bad that Blizz can't depict religion any other way.

you: every relgion has commited worse crimes than hitler and if you are bothered that stories don't portray religion in a positive light you have issues

me: This is the kind of attitude towards religion is why some people unfortunately drawn towards extremism,

you: *strawman arguments and name calling*

Go to bed early as school begins tomorrow.

[frogger237]

Of course Illidan refused for a selfish reason, he literally says so himself saying something like "I've traded my freedom for power before". He knows he will gain power he just doesn't want to be anyone else's pawn.

Also to the people thinking Naaru are sinister now, Xe'ra wasn't believed by the majority of the Naaru, just because she was willing to sacrifice her pawns doesn't mean the rest were. In fact I think the reason she had so much faith in Illidan was because they are alot alike, both are willing to do shady shit to succeed.

[Kithelle]

How so? I just said I quit and I'm doing other stuff. How is that not moving on?

Oh wait, you're one of those who think people haven't moved on cuz they're still around MMOC.
Maybe it's time to realize the main point of this dump is to be entertained by people who cry about the game while still playing it, and feeding off the triggering of SJW and people constantly making political thread as if it was the place to do so.

No...I don't think you haven't moved on because you're around MMOC...I know it offers more than just WoW...I think you haven't moved on because you still feel the need to talk about WoW.

As much as you claim you're over WoW you come to this post to shit talk WoW....which proves you haven't moved on. If you were completely over WoW you wouldn't need to do this. You're like a jilted lover and you come to see other people who felt mistreated...so you can laugh at them because you can't seem to get over the pain WoW has left inside you.

You so obviously aren't over WoW yet...

[SirBeef]

No, that wasnt a sacrifice. To be a sacrifice, u should do something that would cost you or worse. He JUST didnt acepted the gift because he didnt WANTED. Is jsut that, dont try to justify.

He knows that he will be Sargeras' jailer. He know what sacrifice he will be making at the end. Forever being in prison to save the world and people you care about, never to see them again is a huge sacrifice. He just wants to do it his way. Not the way of someone who he believes to be using him as a pawn.

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He does sacrifice in 7.3.5. He will spend his immortal life at rhe seat of the pantheon guardian the prison that contains sargeras and the other 6 titana. FOREVER

Not guarding. He, his physical body will be the prison.

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I found fun again. I quit and now entertain myself with well made products instead of WoW.

Doubtful, since you are here shitting on a product you claim to not bother with anymore.

[Deleted]

When we start our demon hunters, all we learn is ''sacrifice everything to defeat the Legion'' and ''do wherever it takes''. They even say they become half demons and that they must control tehy inner demon, but it is a sacrifice they do to defeaat the Legion. They BLINDLY follow Illidan and he is ok with that. He slaved most of Outland, stole the water of Zangarmarsh, FORCED orcs to drink fel from Magtheridon. Then we learn that was all part of a plan to defeat the Legion.....Ok.
Then we free him, discover that he isnt really the bad guy we thought he were, and he starts doin some good stuff. Ok.
Now we come to the hypocritical part. When Xe'ra says that he must be whole again, to get stronger and end the Legion, HE IS TOO GOOD TO DO THAT. Absorbind fel energy form demon? Okkkk. Following someone blindly? Not nice if it is the Light, but ok if they follow him. Sacrifice everything to do what is necessary? Of course, just not him, others.
Don't get me wrong, i liked how things worked it out, but sorry Illidan is douche.
And i admit that i found it weird how Xe'ra forced it upon him. But hey, Illidan forced stuff all his life upon others, remember the fight where he sacrificed his subordinates without their consent at Black Hook Hold? Ahhhh.

So just because he didn't "want" the light he's a douchebag? We (he) don't even know if the Light would've helped him stop the Legion. In his eyes staying the way he is now (when he's actually free to do what he deems necessary) is the best way to defeat the Legion. The Naaru haven't given him any reason why "The light" can aid him more than the power he has now. Therefor, staying the way he is now and not giving up his freedom to the light is the greater sacrifice (he had a chance to become whole again, it looked like he considered it for a moment) and the best way to defeat the legion.

[DeicideUH]

When we start our demon hunters, all we learn is ''sacrifice everything to defeat the Legion'' and ''do wherever it takes''. They even say they become half demons and that they must control tehy inner demon, but it is a sacrifice they do to defeaat the Legion. They BLINDLY follow Illidan and he is ok with that. He slaved most of Outland, stole the water of Zangarmarsh, FORCED orcs to drink fel from Magtheridon. Then we learn that was all part of a plan to defeat the Legion.....Ok.
Then we free him, discover that he isnt really the bad guy we thought he were, and he starts doin some good stuff. Ok.
Now we come to the hypocritical part. When Xe'ra says that he must be whole again, to get stronger and end the Legion, HE IS TOO GOOD TO DO THAT. Absorbind fel energy form demon? Okkkk. Following someone blindly? Not nice if it is the Light, but ok if they follow him. Sacrifice everything to do what is necessary? Of course, just not him, others.
Don't get me wrong, i liked how things worked it out, but sorry Illidan is douche.
And i admit that i found it weird how Xe'ra forced it upon him. But hey, Illidan forced stuff all his life upon others, remember the fight where he sacrificed his subordinates without their consent at Black Hook Hold? Ahhhh.

I agree. The lesson he gives in the cinematic is quite right and resonate with my personal believes: it's wrong to force your will upon others. We can't expect a "chosen one", we need to take action ourselves. And so on.

But indeed, it's very hypocritical coming from him. The guy who brags about sacrifice was unwilling to sacrifice himself for a greater good. The man who forces the fate upon others (including enslaving Akama and the Broken, creating hordes of fel orcs or bringing Argus upon Azeroth without consulting anyone) gets pissed when others try to force his destiny.

But I loved the cinematic, because I love when Illidan is just Illidan, an hypocritical bastard who does everything for his own glory while trying to convince himself he's doing things for the greater good. To me, he's as much a villain as he is a hero, and I was afraid they'd just whitewash him in Legion and turn him into the guy who was good and right since the beginning. QUite the contrary, he's still a bastard.

[Darththeo]

There's a concept called anti hero, ever heard of it?

Yes, but the action is contrary to his character's goal. Also, has literally nothing to do with the concept of anti-hero, so I am wondering if you know what it is? If Illidian took the gift for the sake of power, or revenge etc ... it still would be anti-hero reaction to it. He would STILL be a anti-hero regardless. He wouldn't be an anti-hero if he accepted the power because it was the "right" or "noble" thing to do.

For example, Han Solo in Star Wars is an anti hero (referring to Episode IV only, he latter became a hero) ... his motives were money and glory in the first movie as well as he own self preservation earlier on. Illidian's goal is to DEFEAT THE LEGION BY ANY MEANS ... rejecting power that could do that makes zero sense as it is contrary to his character.

Killing X'era is not doing the right thing for the wrong reasons ... it is literally doing the wrong thing for selfish reasons. It isn't the anti-hero action it is the action of a villain.

[Zulkhan]

Illidan can't be an hypocrite because he had literally no reason to give two shits about what Xe'ra thought and said. Assuming someone like Illidan would have jumped on that wagon just because there's a whole army of Light believers worshipping that thing and trusting everything it said like it was the Bible is delusional to say the least.

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There is no proof that he would have been or ever was in any danger of being enslaved

But there's also no proof that Xe'ra's way was so unquestionable and absolute as she wanted us to believe. I can understand how someone not really in touch with the Light at all having troubles in trusting an entity getting all she wants thanks to the "faith" of her worshippers by influencing their positive feelings (since we know from TBC that Naaru can make feel people "warm" and overall better, automatically winning their trust and faith).

Couldn't he be wrong?

He could, he could not. But Illidan had all the right to make his own choice. It's his life, after all.

Sounds to me like this guys the one not having fun....

"Stop discussing, everything's shit"

Thanks Christ the Lore section is sometimes blessed by these strikingly elevated minds.

Pretty much everything you just said here is a bunch of nonesense that is almost incomprehensible, but I'll say it again. Willingly spending the rest of your life (Or until the Void lords expansion lets be honest) in the cage with a mad Titan is a sacrifice, not getting toyed by a windchime that doesn't even understand the meaning of 'not interested.'

Let alone the windchime in question offered the arguably easiest route to redemption. Which, ironically, is the very exact reason as for why it wouldn't have been a true redemption of the character.

[rasako]

The easy way out would have been to become whole again. He made (in his mind) the right decision, which was the harder decision to make. With his actions he alienated all his buddies and made his existence that much more difficult.

I don't get how you don't see that as a sacrifice.

He's a total badass.

He actually took the easy way out. He's never going to relinquish the control and power he has because he's corrupted by it, and his ego is too massive for him to accept anyone else's opinion other than his own. It's not really an anti hero thing. Blizzard is still writing him to pretty much be a villain that just so happens to hate the legion more than anything. If Illidan is an anti-hero, then Bolvar the lich king also falls under that umbrella.

[Zulkhan]

He actually took the easy way out.

Spending the rest of his existence to guard a fel corrupted Titan is definitely less appealing and rewarding than becoming the prized champion of someone who offered you to erase all of your suffering, struggle and corruption and be "whole" again. Because yes, that's what Illidan'll end up doing at the end of expansion.

[Better]

(hope this won't be counted as spoiler since the datamined dialogue has been around for a while)

Datamined dialogue that isn't available in game is inherently a spoiler, IDK how you'd think it would be anything else? If a script gets leaked 3 months before a movie comes out, and you openly talk about the twist a month before the movie is out it's not somehow not a spoiler.

[Evangeliste]

The way I see it.

Illidan went on this mission to earn love for Tyrande. He never got it, instead as a man in love... He chose to still sacrifice for her to live. Living for all eternity to guard Titans to keep her alive is a fitting one for him.

Cliche, unconfirmed, romanticised and more. But they made a point of Illidan saying her name in the cinematic of his defeat at Black Temple when detailing his story again in Legion.

"To walk this path, it requires sacrifice, something you have yet to understand" while viewing her face...


At 0.25.

We don't know why he was studying Druidism or Magic in the end, but his journey has been riddled with that one saying... "What have you sacrificed?". He sacrificed himself, for unrequited love.

[Magnagarde]

This was the first time he had to make an actual sacrifice because it was against his wishes and plans. He didn't go through with it. He took so many destinies away and ripped so many fates from lots of characters(wether it is the mages in Black Rook Hold we're talking about or all the living beings in Outland).

All these other "sacrifices" were part of his own ambitions, quests for power and approval, inluding approval from Tyrande, which is essentially selfish too because she is his love and all his actions which have doomed so many people are directed towards saving what he loves.

[KrakHed]

Lothraxion probably was infused with light just the way Illidan was goin to, and he seems fine.

Are we sure? Do we know what Lothraxion may have been like before? Lothraxion may be fine, but is he still the same guy he was before being "reforged"?

[khadaryan]

Are we sure? Do we know what Lothraxion may have been like before? Lothraxion may be fine, but is he still the same guy he was before being "reforged"?

So, we should not drug psychos cause they will change? Its evil?