If Jaina's A Hero in The Next Xpac, Should We Forgive Her?

[Darth Vowrawn]

Oh, so we're making stuff up i see?

Nope.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Unfair_Trade_(Dalaran)

The only ones making stuff up, are Jaina's little worshippers.

[Merie]

Personally I can forgive her bigotry given the circumstances.

I can't forgive her hairdo however.

[Whitedragon]

Nope.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Unfair_Trade_(Dalaran)

The only ones making stuff up, are Jaina's little worshippers.

All of which are given the option of surrender and choose to attack. Some of them are even using the chaos to commit crimes.

[Darth Vowrawn]

All of which are given the option of surrender and choose to attack.

Nope. Your fanon is that they were given the option. Jaina and Vereesa went from "accusation" to "kill them all" with nothing in between. They would have been given the option to leave, instead Jaina orders all of the Dragonhawks killed after shutting off the portals making the "surrender" impossible. There never was an "option".

[Aqua]

Well yeah, there is literally no WoW main hero free from sin, they've all fucked up in someway, it's the only thing that keeps this idiotic horde vs alliance cog turning.

So if she comes to a grand realization that her trauma and grief is driving her into insanity and gets ahold of herself, then sure. I'll forgive her having a (honestly quite mild) temper tantrum.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Forgive her for what? The horde wiped out her town along with everyone she loved. Every one of her actions against them is fully justified.

[Dr Assbandit]

They have butchered her character development so many times that who was once one of my favorite WoW characters is someone I joust wouldn't bat an eyelid if she just disappeared.

This is what happens when you outsource character development to external writers for the sake of books and then show absolutely no hint of that development ingame.

Jainas actions made Theramore a viable target. Garrosh however decided to just completely obliterate Theramore when the Alliance have been at the very least mindful of not being wholesale butchers (except for the NE in Ashenvale). Jainas anger was justified as well and it seemed like she was finally putting her past behind her after Warcrimes but nope, no sign of how she said she was going to focus on Kalecgos and hers relationship and still as bi-polar as ever.

[oplawlz]

You'll just feel however the story tells you to because just like Garrosh they have no fucking idea what they're doing with the schizophrenic mess that is the writing of her ambitions.

This pretty much sums it up.
You'd think with all the money blizzard makes they'd hire actual talented writers to handle their stories, but then I'd also expect them to have more than 5 voice actors for the entire game, so what do I know?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Which doesn't matter when other people can overrule you. She overstepped her authority, and did it unilaterally.


Attempted genocide is still a crime. But, apparently only for Orcs, Human women just get hugs and treated like poor widdle victims.

being mad and wanting revenge but not going though with it is not a crime and it sure as hell isn't a crime in wow or every one ever should be locked up.

[pateuvasiliu]

Why should we support someone who massacred cowering blood elves? Someone who abandoned us throughout legion due to her hatred? She's currently behaving like a !@#$%. Her irrational thinking of the horde is jarring.

You mean the faction that has Undead who developed a chemical weapon through human experimentation and would kill all humans and raise them into the sick existence of undeath?

Why is her thinking irrational? The Horde is objectively evil. You cannot defend a race that literally kills the living to turn them into undead.


And I say that as the biggest orc/Garrosh/Thrall/Grom/Saurfang fanboy around. The Horde used to be morally questionable, but since Sylvanas has been revealed to be Arthas with a Horde banner they're straight evil.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Well, according to Alliance fanatics, the Horde are just a bunch of evil monsters that deserve to be eradicated for peeing in poor little princess Proudmoore's cereal, so I don't know how any Alliance player can say it "goes against all the Horde is about", when that is all the Horde is about according to most on team blue.

No, it was more then just a attack on a city, if you are going to validate these with the "Times of War" thing, then Jaina's actions agaisn't Orgrimmar were validated as well because they were in "Times of War".



Incorrect. She gave a blatant military advantage to the Alliance, and then threw a little hissy fit when the Horde did the same thing she herself had done. Jaina also NEVER "ordered them to go", stop making up stuff. She teleported in, slaughtered some harmless guards for no other reason than "fun", arrested the only person who actually had a smidgen of real guilt, and then unilaterally ordered her little militant terrorist group to slaughter as many Blood Elves as they could and make it look like they were "resisting". That's considered "disproportionate retribution", and is evil and sick.



Intent matters. Jaina's intentions were just as evil and barbaric as Garrosh's. She doesn't get a free pass just because she "almost" did it, despite the fact that her flooding Orgrimmar would have been a thousand times worse than Theramore.

how so ?

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Goblin mercenaries don't equal "the Horde", sorry. And, no, I didn't read the book, as it reeked of Alliance propaganda, bad writing, and whitewashing of Jaina's actions during Cataclysm.



Just because HE ordered it, doesn't mean the Horde knew about it. He had his own secret police, his own underground base, and an army of mercenaries. He easily can do it without the consent or knowledge of the Horde. Just because he is Warchief, doesn't make every member of the Horde responsible or in the know.

You should really take your own advice and "put 2 and 2 together".


And the quests contradict "word of god".

how would you know if you didn't read it. it pained the horde in a rather good light every one other then garrosh.

[Friendlyimmolation]

how so ?

For starters, Theramore had no civilians in it at the time of its bombing, Jaina's goal on the other hand was to kill every orc on Azeroth.

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You mean the faction that has Undead who developed a chemical weapon through human experimentation and would kill all humans and raise them into the sick existence of undeath?

Why is her thinking irrational? The Horde is objectively evil. You cannot defend a race that literally kills the living to turn them into undead.


And I say that as the biggest orc/Garrosh/Thrall/Grom/Saurfang fanboy around. The Horde used to be morally questionable, but since Sylvanas has been revealed to be Arthas with a Horde banner they're straight evil.

The blight isn't created to raise people into undeath. Also Jaina's problem isn't with the forsaken at all. The only person who seems to hate them is Greymane.

And I say that as the biggest orc/Garrosh/Thrall/Grom/Saurfang fanboy around. The Horde used to be morally questionable, but since Sylvanas has been revealed to be Arthas with a Horde banner they're straight evil.

inb4 you use her sarcastic remark intended to piss off Garrosh as proof that she is Arthas.!!11!


OT Heros depend on what side you are on, she's not a hero for the Horde for obvious reasons.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

For starters, Theramore had no civilians in it at the time of its bombing, Jaina's goal on the other hand was to kill every orc on Azeroth.

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The blight isn't created to raise people into undeath. Also Jaina's problem isn't with the forsaken at all. The only person who seems to hate them is Greymane.



inb4 you use her sarcastic remark intended to piss off Garrosh as proof that she is Arthas.!!11!


OT Heros depend on what side you are on, she's not a hero for the Horde for obvious reasons.

sure it had no civ's in it but its not like garrosh cared and he seemed to pick some up afterwards, org would still be a valid target from a war stand point if people want to say thereamore was. blowing one city off the map isn't any worse then another from a war stand point and its not like the horde let the civ's out because they thought it was wrong to kill them garrosh was trying to lure in more alliance support to blow up.

also not every orc would even be in org so i really doubt that was her goal but i could be miss remembering part of the book so i might be wrong..

[Friendlyimmolation]

sure it had no civ's in it but its not like garrosh cared and he seemed to pick some up afterwards, org would still be a valid target from a war stand point if people want to say thereamore was. blowing one city off the map isn't any worse then another from a war stand point and its not like the horde let the civ's out because they thought it was wrong to kill them garrosh was trying to lure in more alliance support to blow up.

also not every orc would even be in org so i really doubt that was her goal but i could be miss remembering part of the book so i might be wrong..

The captured civilians were Malkorok's gift to Garrosh iirc. Jaina's goal wasnt the ruination of the Horde's ability to mobilize, she wanted to kill orcs. Garrosh wanted to cripple the Alliance, their deaths were secondary.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So Garrosh destroying Theramore was perfectly fine in your mind? You can't have it both ways

ya it was why would i think it wasn't? garrosh was a bad ass and him blowing up thereamore was badass.

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The captured civilians were Malkorok's gift to Garrosh iirc. Jaina's goal wasnt the ruination of the Horde's ability to mobilize, she wanted to kill orcs. Garrosh wanted to cripple the Alliance, their deaths were secondary.

of course she wanted to kill orcs they blew up her city i don't see how that is something you wouldn't expect from a war.

[Filipse]

Would'nt matter to me personaly, unless she somehow regained lost brain-cells and become a reasonable invidual using their head again before going all teenage-angst emotional like the current version goes about, it's just annoying with forced conflicts, that dont feel like they hold any substance behind them simply because PVP is dead in WoW as things go and thus the whole alliance vs horde thing lacks much depth behind it for that reason.

[jac9996]

Should WE forgive her? sorry but the alliance has nothing to forgive her over as she hasnt done anything to the alliance at all shes always and still does 100% support the alliance. The horde on the other hand it is her who should forgive you. After all the shit the horde did to her yes it was mostly garrosh but he was your leader which you as players followed so in turn it was you also that did this stuff to her even if it was blizzard that made you do it. In jainas eyes it was you (the horde players) who did this stuff with garrosh so if anything its her that should be forgiving you....

For the purge of dalaran the sunreavers betrayed her she wanted them out of her city and had full support from most of the council at the time, yes it was wrong to kill helpless sunreavers but both sides were equally in the wrong.

[Friendlyimmolation]

of course she wanted to kill orcs they blew up her city i don't see how that is something you wouldn't expect from a war.

which is why I doubt any Horde would consider her a hero. Some may forgive her, many will not. It would be dumb if they did, and vice versa.

[Daevelian]

Nope.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Unfair_Trade_(Dalaran)

The only ones making stuff up, are Jaina's little worshippers.

Bit late a reply but.... did you just defeat yourself with your own source?

All elves involved in that quest are told they can surrender but they chose to fight back instead. Unless of course you are going in to it biased and seeing "jaina's methods" as "MURDER THEM ALL! WHO CARES JUST FRIGGIN MURDER!".

But hey, if you want to misinterpet it, lets take it all the way to crazyville shall we?. Jaina's methods are "surrender or die". Vareesa, who has been looking for an excuse to slaughter horde filth, disagrees with this method and thinks you should butcher them all. However, she can understand Jaina's motive in not wanting to outright exterminate the blood elves as that could lead to disastrous results. Bam, i just asspulled an interpretation as valid as your own!

[Whitedragon]

Nope. Your fanon is that they were given the option. Jaina and Vereesa went from "accusation" to "kill them all" with nothing in between. They would have been given the option to leave, instead Jaina orders all of the Dragonhawks killed after shutting off the portals making the "surrender" impossible. There never was an "option".

You accuse me of using my fanon and then go on to push your own, she gave them all the option of being taken to the VH over death some didn't take it. She also didn't order the deaths of the dragonhawks, she ordered them subdued leaving it up to Vereesa and the player on how they went about it (you have 2 ways of doing it during the quest).