Had the South won the Civil War?

[yetgdhfgh]

NO, of course not why would they Slavery still existed in places other than the west that both Great Britain and French still traded with, A point of contention wouldn't have been enough to pressure change, it's hardly able to do that now.

But when we was sending ships out to intercept slave ships way before the civil war happened?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Africa_Squadron

Its like child slave labour yes when we do business with you it disgusts us but when you want the contract renewed you better believe we aint gonna want that shit to continue!

[Doctor Amadeus]

the CSA would of collapsed when the continuing Industrial Revolution left it's agriculutre based economy behind, they'd more than likely have been conqured by the Spanish.

Also Slavery would of persisted for ages, it's literally was in their fucking consitution that the CSA was built on the "Great Truth that the White Man is the superior to the Negro". All this states rights, the lost cause of the confederacy shit is pure revisionism and frankly a pathetic display of Americans, at least the Germans are able to recognize the Nazi's evil and be ashamed of it.

Yeah it is amazing what people can become complacent to, I think one of the worst lessons from WW2 just like everything else is the need for people to go "They aren't like me" or "They are gullible or stupid." that isn't how it works, Germans seem to know that many people here now don't. Or they do and don't care and count on it, which is a great many too.

The Confederates were very similar in their nature, now like nazi's are idiots waving a flag to idols that fucking betrayed them and would have likely had them on hooks or sized up their worth next to the negro all the same. These guys had a team and most of the people living today wouldn't have been on it if their heroes has their way.

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But when we was sending ships out to intercept slave ships way before the civil war happened?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Africa_Squadron

Its like child slave labour yes when we do business with you it disgusts us but when you want the contract renewed you better believe we aint gonna want that shit to continue!

Of which I have no doubt, but you are confusing a bit of what I said, it wasn't that they wouldn't have disagreed with it, they wouldn't have stopped it, and of the South had won those that disagreed with slavery would have found a new way or pushed back.

What would happened with that I don't know. But I assume the fact that Slavery didn't actually stop, I would say it would have been worse.

[Mgann-Morzz]

Yeah it is amazing what people can become complacent to, I think one of the worst lessons from WW2 just like everything else is the need for people to go "They aren't like me" or "They are gullible or stupid." that isn't how it works, Germans seem to know that many people here now don't. Or they do and don't care and count on it, which is a great many too.

The Confederates were very similar in their nature, now like nazi's are idiots waving a flag to idols that fucking betrayed them and would have likely had them on hooks or sized up their worth next to the negro all the same. These guys had a team and most of the people living today wouldn't have been on it if their heroes has their way.

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Of which I have no doubt, but you are confusing a bit of what I said, it wasn't that they wouldn't have disagreed with it, they wouldn't have stopped it, and of the South had won those that disagreed with slavery would have found a new way or pushed back.

What would happened with that I don't know. But I assume the fact that Slavery didn't actually stop, I would say it would have been worse.

To repeat what I said in another comment, what confuses me even more than Southerners refusal to admit the Confederacy was a morally bankrupt entity built around holding down an entire race of people for money and crazy genetic beliefs.. is the people in the NORTHERN states who now fly the CSA Naval Battle flag, they don't even have a "MY HARRITAGE!" excuse to fall back on, their ancestors if they were around in the country in the the time likely FOUGHT the CSA.

O and places like West Virginia, a state that literally exist entirely because they didn't want to seceede like the rest of VA, yet is now one of hte places you'll find the most Confederate Flags flying around.

[yetgdhfgh]

Yeah it is amazing what people can become complacent to, I think one of the worst lessons from WW2 just like everything else is the need for people to go "They aren't like me" or "They are gullible or stupid." that isn't how it works, Germans seem to know that many people here now don't. Or they do and don't care and count on it, which is a great many too.

The Confederates were very similar in their nature, now like nazi's are idiots waving a flag to idols that fucking betrayed them and would have likely had them on hooks or sized up their worth next to the negro all the same. These guys had a team and most of the people living today wouldn't have been on it if their heroes has their way.

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Of which I have no doubt, but you are confusing a bit of what I said, it wasn't that they wouldn't have disagreed with it, they wouldn't have stopped it, and of the South had won those that disagreed with slavery would have found a new way or pushed back.

What would happened with that I don't know. But I assume the fact that Slavery didn't actually stop, I would say it would have been worse.

Iam sure the British wouldve demanded it to end and iam sure African Americans wouldve flooded north and the KKK would not have come to being cause they came into being cause of reconstruction. The question is would the south have gained its so called paradise that the alt right have so longed desired and would the south would have flourished?

Like i said i love speculative history so what do you think?

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Yeah it is amazing what people can become complacent to, I think one of the worst lessons from WW2 just like everything else is the need for people to go "They aren't like me" or "They are gullible or stupid." that isn't how it works, Germans seem to know that many people here now don't. Or they do and don't care and count on it, which is a great many too.

The Confederates were very similar in their nature, now like nazi's are idiots waving a flag to idols that fucking betrayed them and would have likely had them on hooks or sized up their worth next to the negro all the same. These guys had a team and most of the people living today wouldn't have been on it if their heroes has their way.

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Of which I have no doubt, but you are confusing a bit of what I said, it wasn't that they wouldn't have disagreed with it, they wouldn't have stopped it, and of the South had won those that disagreed with slavery would have found a new way or pushed back.

What would happened with that I don't know. But I assume the fact that Slavery didn't actually stop, I would say it would have been worse.

Of course we wouldve stopped it! British Parliament wouldve demanded it eventually its just the south wouldve gave it up voluntary instead of mandatory cause of financial reasons.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Iam sure the British wouldve demanded it to end and iam sure African Americans wouldve flooded north and the KKK would not have come to being cause they came into being cause of reconstruction. The question is would the south have gained its so called paradise that the alt right have so longed desired and would the south would have flourished?

No because it never works out that way for anyone, that's the kicker, it never does.

The South probably more than likely would have divided again, the reason I say this is because in the south a little known secret is that there were many who were not slave owners were not too happy, but the war was a banner for which to rally.

It's Possible some faction of the south would have fought again because there is evidence that there was contention about more than just slavery and some in the south might have banded together with slaves to address the southern leadership. The elite confederates were Aristocrats and everybody else wasn't. If Lee had any misgivings it was about this, less than slavery.

Because many Confederates died supporting a system he was a staunch supporter all his life. He was a man not a statue.

Like i said i love speculative history so what do you think?

As sure as I FEEL I am I do NOT KNOW! You could be totally right about everything.

I just don't think so because the North did win and they didn't do that flourishing thing so much, not as envisioned. Lincoln was killed and the Union although won the war was pretty shaken

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Of course we wouldve stopped it! British Parliament wouldve demanded it eventually its just the south wouldve gave it up voluntary instead of mandatory cause of financial reasons.

Yeah but you are forgetting the British put their foot down before the Civil War that didn't turn out so well, but as I said I don't know wasn't the crown kind of still hurting around that time?

I mean they still had other issues also. I ask because when it comes to that period, I am not fresh as to what was exactly going on in any other front for England.

[Macaquerie]

The same factors that ensured the Confederacy's defeat in reality would also have guaranteed a quick collapse in the off chance of a fluke victory. The Southern economy was just far too backward and inefficient to compete in an industrialized world, there is after all a reason why people were seemingly okay with slavery for thousands of years, but then saw it as a moral imperative to end it a few decades after mechanization began to take hold. It was simply unsustainable for a tiny group of plantation owners to cosplay as European aristocrats, all while even most of the white population lived in abject poverty and destitution.

[yetgdhfgh]

Yeah but you are forgetting the British put their foot down before the Civil War that didn't turn out so well, but as I said I don't know wasn't the crown kind of still hurting around that time?

I mean they still had other issues also. I ask because when it comes to that period, I am not fresh as to what was exactly going on in any other front for England.

You gotta remember business was business back then we cant judge what they did back then just speculate how there actions would've impacted how our society turned out.

Like i said i love speculative history and debating how things could've turned if A. Done B.

Now you said the South would divided again i feel this would not happen cause when you just won a civil war and to your north is a uneasy enemy the last thing you would want is to divide.

****EDIT well i have enjoyed this debate and i want a history forum on this site cause i love this so much anyway if i havent OD on pills and alcohol i shall continue thiss!!

[Doctor Amadeus]

You gotta remember business was business back then we cant judge what they did back then just speculate how there actions would've impacted how our society turned out.

That is fundamentally untrue, or at least I would disagree depending on the business, slavery isn't just business to me.

Like i said i love speculative history and debating how things could've turned if A. Done B.

Now you said the South would divided again i feel this would not happen cause when you just won a civil war and to your north is a uneasy enemy the last thing you would want is to divide.

You could be right, I don't know when or if it would have happened for sure, I am just going by some on the south that seem to have misgivings about the confederate plans once the war was won.

Some of the Confederates may not have been as committed as they seemed, I wouldn't be surprised if they lead some rebellion. One of the man mantras of the south was the idea of Freedom much in the same way the Revolutionary War.

The thing is the people at the top always tell those below only as much as they need to know, and there are over all general consensus, but just like in the North many had a very different contention as to what the end of the war looked like.

Some on the North didn't really want to end slavery, some in the south could have been open to it. Consider this, say you start a conflict with or on behalf of a cause you watch and see thousands die fighting for a cause, do you think that strengthens your resolve for something you question, or do you think that makes you rethink it?


The reason I ask is because the essence of what I am asking is how far can or does one go that there is no going back? Even if tomorrow you think I fucked up. People died and more importantly if you lead them and they had the promise you would be their Hero do you forgo your own reservations then.

I think that had more to do with letters and misgivings, people can change even if it's at the last minute, Rommel for instance the Desert Fox, do you think maybe towards his end he recognized Hitler was a lunatic?

And would he likely be in the same boat.


What about General Grant?

I say the south would be more likely to divide because I think had they won and in this instance held off the North, I think there would have been a rough reconstruction. Most of which would still have involved diplomacy with the North just like it was vice versa.

[Zuben]

Progression would've taken longer than it did, but the Confederate people were your average Americans too, so they'd support freedom and other bright values at least when Nazis and USSR became a thing. Economic effects might've been more devastating, though I'm not that savvy on the subject.

[Super Kami Dende]

the claim that just cause the farm industry was mechanizing it would die is a fallacy, that just ment they would need fewer people for the same amount of work
so they'll just make them work the tractor and other equipment instead of doing everything by hand

Where did I say it would die? I said it would become a major defining factor of change.

[ati87]

Their would be another civil war but then this time only in the south.

Hatefull people always needs somebody they can hate they need a enemy or else they can't really function, it's easy to piss on former slaves with Jim Crow laws but if slavery didn't end these future nazi's would have needed a different target since picking on slaves wouldn't be enough for them after a few years.

Not that it would end slavery within a few decades, it would go as long as it could

[Sky High]

if they won the "first" civil war they would not have won the second civil war. and by then I doubt the north would have pussyfooted around and kept it's heel on the south's throat for way longer than it did in the real world.

[Independent voter]

1. Slavery would've lasted in the South maybe up until 1900, but pressure from Europe would've eventually forced the South to end slavery.

2. After slavery was abolished, the South may very well have rejoined the North. The Southern Constitution was almost identical to the Northern Constitution for example.

[ItachiZaku]

The SEC would still dominate college football.