Do you have a moment to talk about our Lord and Savior, North Korea?

[soulzek]

I really feel a parallel between "the regime" and "the scourge" and how their lich king isn't that bad of a guy, but must exist to keep them under control.

How weird.

[Corvus]

No.. no it is not. The North Korean military is weak and a lot of their equipment is outdated (refer to my entire OP), but that doesn't mean we'd storm over them and beat them easily. Did that work in Iraq? Or in any contemporary war ever waged by the USA? The point I was making is that the North Korean military isn't a force we can just barrel over in some hyperbolic lightening war that poses no threat to anyone. You say no one is quaking in their boots at facing North Korean guns, but I sure don't see you at the front of the line to serve in an invasion force. Did you fight in Iraq? Or Vietnam? You talk a big game for someone that I'm assuming hasn't, but feel free to correct me if you truly have.

Iraq was a one sided curbstomp of epic proportions. So yes the US did storm over them and defeat them easily in a lightning war. And there equipment was on par or perhaps even better than what NK has. And the US gear has improved since Gulf War 1 while NK gear hasn't.

The lead up to GW1 was full of talking heads and so called experts saying just how tough the Iraqi's would be, how it would be a prolonged struggle. Turns out 100 hours into the ground campaign and the Iraqi army had fallen apart.

[zEmini]

Why couldn't the US create a beach head? Seems a lot easier then just A-moving from the southern boarder.

[therealstegblob]

OP, the North Korean military IS weak. Few million men to throw means less than it did 70 years ago. Have you forgotten that South Korea also has one of the biggest armies in the world (no. 7 right now)? That their troops are actually fed? And don't even get me started on the technological advantage or the USA as allies.
With their around 30 or so MiG-29's, which are their most modern planes (and are from the first series, read, OLD), they will literally lose the air combat within first day and by that the war.

Can we expect to see you on the invasion front, then?

- - - Updated - - -

Why couldn't the US create a beach head? Seems a lot easier then just A-Attacking from the southern boarder.

I can't speak for what a military leader may actually choose to do (because invading North Korea directly from the sea is a viable option) but it'd be significantly tougher to establish an invasion point within North Korea than it would be to prepare for an invasion within South Korea. Plus, the artillery on the DMZ line would be a top priority anyways, so it'd make more sense to start there.

- - - Updated - - -

I find a lot of MMO-champ poster personalities to be rude and abrasive, and needlessly spiteful.

therealstegblob is not one of them. He's been respectful towards the OP and is offering sound arguments. TBH I am enjoying reading his posts as he seems more knowledgable about North Korea than any news network I've had the displeasure of reading.

If this thread got closed because of his insistence on defending his views with factual, logical information, then that would truly be a shame.

I don't have anything to add directly to the discussion, I just wanted to note that I appreciate the discussion and am enjoying reading it. So, thanks for that.

Thank you. I don't know everything about North Korea but I try very hard to find sources and people who provide unbiased information. Too many people believe far-fetched stuff like North Korea would be super easy to beat in a war or that North Korea has this ultra powerful huge military etc etc. Biased, reaching beliefs on both sides of the spectrum that are downright offensive to the men, women and children that would lose their homes/lives if there was ever a second Korean war.

I also make it a point to remind everyone that 9 out of every 10 times when someone speaks up about how quick and easy a war with North Korea would be, they're someone who isn't even enlisted in a branch of the military, let alone would be one of the people fighting in such a war.

- - - Updated - - -

I really feel a parallel between "the regime" and "the scourge" and how their lich king isn't that bad of a guy, but must exist to keep them under control.

How weird.

Oh, don't get Jong-un wrong. He's a pretty awful person. If you find sympathy for him from the fact he's kind of a prisoner of his own power, don't forget that he also has had thousands of people murdered/executed (sometimes entire extended families, including people related to him through marriage) and has imprisoned untold numbers of people in barbaric prison camps where they are tortured and kept in literally hell-hole conditions. Escapees from prison camps tell stories of people crammed into concrete boxes with wooden poles running through the box, so they're kept in a cramped condition with their limbs stuck in awkward and painful angles.

One of the most famous escapees, Shin Dong-hyuk, managed to escape the prison camp he was being held in by climbing an electric fence; using the corpse of another man who had died trying to scale the fence. He burned his legs on the fence so bad that there are permanent scars- not to mention the fact he'll forever remember climbing over a fucking dead body to hop an electric fence.

Here's an article about Shin and the tortures of North Korean prison camps, if you want to read a little more. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elisab..._b_162256.html

Jong-un might be in danger of losing his life at practically all hours of the day, but he's definitely earned most of the enemies he has made.

[Bodakane]

Okay so let me forward this forum essay by explaining just why I am doing this.

-snip-

So anyways, tl;dr over. I just wanted to bring a little clarification concerning North Korea to this forum. I am more than happy to provide further sources and articles or answer any questions.

Amazing post and thank you very much for the time and effort you put into it.

I'm not an amateur or otherwise scholar on NK, but I always felt like their anti-America bluster was not to threaten us but to control their own people.

[Easo]

Can we expect to see you on the invasion front, then?

I fail to see your point.

[therealstegblob]

I fail to see your point.

My point is that for someone who is so confident that a war with North Korea would be a cakewalk that would be over in a matter of weeks, you're likely not even enlisted in any branch of the military. Easy for you to apply a false hyperbole to the situation, considering you have little to no threat of ever being faced with an actual war.

Note that my point is not "You're not in the military so that means you're unable to know anything about the military or war", it's that you're writing off a war as being a non-issue even though you're in no personal risk of performing in it.

[Xandrigity]

The scary part of North Korea is the leader is a complete lunatic and the people are so brainwashed they be willing to follow along to the end with his degree of crazy

[Zecora]

[snip for brevity]

I've only skimmed your text, but from what I did read, you raise several interesting points and overall, I think I agree.

Kudos for a well-written, and fairly neutral text!

[therealstegblob]

The scary part of North Korea is the leader is a complete lunatic and the people are so brainwashed they be willing to follow along to the end with his degree of crazy

https://nataliagomezdelpozuelo.files...ue-dice-no.jpg

(Infracted) ~Minor Spam

[Al Gorefiend]

North Korea should be a testing site for biological warfare. Things like man-made famine, releasing a viral strain of parasitical agents that kill rice and spread quickly. Intentional release of alien species like african locusts or malaria-infected mosquitos, idk.
It'd be a great and inexpensive way to topple the regime when they're too damn weak to fight off insects.

- with of course, the intent and purpose being to cripple NK to the point where they must beg for foreign aid and/or humiliate the regime by showing incompetence at safeguarding the citizens from, like, bugs.

[Easo]

My point is that for someone who is so confident that a war with North Korea would be a cakewalk that would be over in a matter of weeks, you're likely not even enlisted in any branch of the military. Easy for you to apply a false hyperbole to the situation, considering you have little to no threat of ever being faced with an actual war.

Note that my point is not "You're not in the military so that means you're unable to know anything about the military or war", it's that you're writing off a war as being a non-issue even though you're in no personal risk of performing in it.

Urghhh, the topic was that their armed forces are overrated and now you went into "of but you are not going to fight there". These discussions are not really connected, try as you might.

[Tijuana]

The scary part of North Korea is the leader is a complete lunatic and the people are so brainwashed they be willing to follow along to the end with his degree of crazy

Yup. /thread

[therealstegblob]

Yup. /thread

- - - Updated - - -

Urghhh, the topic was that their armed forces are overrated and now you went into "of but you are not going to fight there". These discussions are not really connected, try as you might.

The topic is that their forces are more significant a threat than you give them credit for. You're writing off the cost an effort it will take, not to mention the loss, of fighting a war with North Korea. I counter you by saying that it's easy for you to speak such wild, unsupported and erroneous claims because you're in no personal danger of facing the very war you insist isn't a big deal.

- - - Updated - - -

North Korea should be a testing site for biological warfare. Things like man-made famine, releasing a viral strain of parasitical agents that kill rice and spread quickly. Intentional release of alien species like african locusts or malaria-infected mosquitos, idk.
It'd be a great and inexpensive way to topple the regime when they're too damn weak to fight off insects.

- with of course, the intent and purpose being to cripple NK to the point where they must beg for foreign aid and/or humiliate the regime by showing incompetence at safeguarding the citizens from, like, bugs.

I'm not sure breaching every basic human law and indiscriminately killing millions of North Korean civilians is a very good way of ending the Regime.

[Deleted]

I can't believe how many people believe the media's fear mongering.

[Z-Man]

OP, the North Korean military IS weak. Few million men to throw means less than it did 70 years ago. Have you forgotten that South Korea also has one of the biggest armies in the world (no. 7 right now)? That their troops are actually fed? And don't even get me started on the technological advantage or the USA as allies.
With their around 30 or so MiG-29's, which are their most modern planes (and are from the first series, read, OLD), they will literally lose the air combat within first day and by that the war.

I'd be surprised if the NK army actually gets out of North Korea. Yes, their artillery will make a mess of Seoul for a few days, but their ground forces are going to be butchered once they start moving around in the open (at least until the mass surrenders start).

[zmp]

I can't believe how many people believe the media's fear mongering.

Not surprising.. Its been the same since "IRAQ!!! WMDs!!!!" and "RUSSIA RUSSIA MUH RUSSIA".

[Al Gorefiend]

- - - Updated - - -



The topic is that their forces are more significant a threat than you give them credit for. You're writing off the cost an effort it will take, not to mention the loss, of fighting a war with North Korea. I counter you by saying that it's easy for you to speak such wild, unsupported and erroneous claims because you're in no personal danger of facing the very war you insist isn't a big deal.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm not sure breaching every basic human law and indiscriminately killing millions of North Korean civilians is a very good way of ending the Regime.

you say basic human laws as if such a concept exists in North Korea.

[breadisfunny]

north korea is best korea.

[therealstegblob]

you say basic human laws as if such a concept exists in North Korea.

Just because the Regime doesn't observe basic human rights doesn't make it a good idea for us to breach basic human rights. I know you're just using an extreme hyperbole to express how little you care about the welfare of North Korea compared to ending it as a threat, but you'll never defeat the Regime by being just as monstrous to its people as the Regime itself is.

What's more likely to happen is that you'll create a breeding bed for an entirely new Regime that capitalizes on the fear and horror spread by the West. The Regime already spouts propaganda about how awful the USA is; now imagine what might happen if the North Korean people had a reason to believe that propaganda.

I also see a Moderator heroically Infracted me for the penguin with a 'no' sign image I used in response to someone whose post was literally just "/thread", by the way. The MMOChampion mods always fighting that good fight.