Justice Dept. sides with baker who refused to make wedding cake for gay couple

[Deletedaccount1]

How can Walmart know it is an isis cake if it is just Arabic? Arabic people can't eat cake and put their language on it?

"Sorry we don't bake hate cakes" is different from "sorry we don't serve your kind around here"

The ISIS battle flag is very distinct looking. Anyone who has watched the news in the last 4 years has seen it. I guess if you work at Walmart you probably don't read or watch the news very much.

[Halyon]

I don't agree. It's a step from that to refusing service in any sector. It's easier in big cities, like where I live, in Chicago, but when it comes to small hodunk towns where it's the only grocery store or the only gas station or the only bakery or the only carpenter that it becomes a serious issue for people.

By opening a business that serves the public, you agree to serve the entire public and not just the parts you agree with.

So if I decline an illustration commission involving porn, I should do it anyway? That's silly dude. He wasn't refusing service because the people were gay, he refused because he didn't want to use his craft to depict something he didn't want to. Much like an artist not wanting to do porn for people. Which they're perfectly allowed to do.

[Moshots]

How can Walmart know it is an isis cake if it is just Arabic? Arabic people can't eat cake and put their language on it?

"Sorry we don't bake hate cakes" is different from "sorry we don't serve your kind around here"

except no one said that.... This is why i hate the left they are so god damn dramatic in anything... the guy didnt go get out of my store you abominations and may god have mercy on your soul as you burn in hell for all eternity..... He declined to bake a cake for a gay themed wedding.. There is 0 difference between wal-mart refusing to bake a heritage cake for a southerner and him declining to bake a cake for a gay wedding in the eyes of the laws. Both should be allowed and under the law as the justice put forward yesterday both are freedoms that isn't going anywhere.

[Themius]

This is how you feel. Not the law. Private business refuse service all the time. Homosexuals aren't a protected class. End of discussion.

I agree, it's shitty. But in a free society, sometimes people's feelings get hurt.

Well this is just dumb... "sometimes people's feelings get hurt" what about when people begin to die and become stranded because now businesses and doctors don't serve gays or blacks or asians because they don't want to. This was an issue in our past you know.

This isn't about feelings this is about civil rights and in many states it is against the law to discriminate against people who are gay, do you think it is okay to dsicimrinate against me because I am gay or do you see problems with that? Do you not see how there is a problem there?

[Deleted]

Can you explain why you disagree?

Sure, on the surface, a cake seems trivial. No one is going to die for lack of cake. Even I can see this case is fairly stupid. The reason why I still talk about it is because while the whole cake thing is dumb, the concept, the precedent is not. The precedent is that if people can do that, anyone can discriminate against others in their public businesses. It's not a far leap to start saying you won't allow women to shop in your stores, or black people, or gays, and if you're the only place or you hold the majority, it is back to the Civil Rights movement and a regression of 50+ years. It's a step towards white only/black only segregation.

Because I believe in freedom. As long as you aren't physically hurting anyone or harassing anyone with bad intent you should be free to think, say or do whatever the fuck you want. Now I'm well aware that some of you will try to nitpick cases out where this doesn't apply. You know what I mean when I say what I say.

[Themius]

accept no one said that.... This is why i hate the left they are so god damn dramatic in anything... the guy didnt go get out of my store you abominations and may god have mercy on your soul as you burn in hell for all eternity..... He declined to bake a cake for a gay themed wedding....

Your argument is a starwman. I know full well what he decided.

In the Walmart example does anyone there speak fucking arabic to know exactly what they were writing on the cake? Else they would probably deny a fucking terroist cake.

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Because I believe in freedom. As long as you aren't physically hurting anyone or harassing anyone with bad intent you should be free to think, say or do whatever the fuck you want. Now I'm well aware that some of you will try to nitpick cases out where this doesn't apply. You know what I mean when I say what I say.

So you think businesses should be allowed to say "no colored people"?

I like to point out here this is the epitome of white male privilege..."it's okay to discriminate! because freedom!" says person from a class of people never discriminated against to the extent of minorities and women.

[Deleted]

So if I decline an illustration commission involving porn, I should do it anyway? That's silly dude. He wasn't refusing service because the people were gay, he refused because he didn't want to use his craft to depict something he didn't want to. Much like an artist not wanting to do porn for people. Which they're perfectly allowed to do.

It's a good example. If I go take pictures taken of me but I suddenly take my clothes off and ask them to keep making pictures they should keep shooting obviously...the service is to take pictures after all.

[Arrkon]

what if the people who work for AAA in that specific area also do not serve gays?

If you pay for the service and then are refused the service based off of how the driver feels that is something completely different.

[Themius]

If you pay for the service and then are refused the service based off of how the driver feels that is something completely different.

but shouldn't the driver be free to exercise their "religion" I thought you can't force people to do shit they don't want to?

[Draco-Onis]

The ISIS battle flag is very distinct looking. Anyone who has watched the news in the last 4 years has seen it. I guess if you work at Walmart you probably don't read or watch the news very much.

Actually a lot of conservatives have confused other flags with the ISIS flags not that I blame them since most people aren't familiar with Arabic letters.

[Moshots]

Your argument is a starwman. I know full well what he decided.

In the Walmart example does anyone there speak fucking arabic to know exactly what they were writing on the cake? Else they would probably deny a fucking terroist cake.

God people from the left are so dense... You realize that the arabic cake means jack shit to anything about this case right??? the REFUSAL to bake a confederate heritage cake would fall under the same protections here if you want to say that this baker is forced to bake a cake for a wedding thats a abomination to his faith. then wal-mart better start printing confederate flag cakes... Or if i go down to the city of detroit tonight maybe i should stop by the mexican bakery in mexican town and ask for a cake that says Build the Wall.. see what they tell me when i ask for that.... I'm sure they will chase me out So under your stance I should then be able to sue them too huh?

[Baine]

Am I being trolled or do you guys actually disagree with the civil rights movement?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins

I agree with them too. Personally, I think it is a stupid decision by the baker, but he has the right to do it.

[Bullettime]

So if I decline an illustration commission involving porn, I should do it anyway? That's silly dude. He wasn't refusing service because the people were gay, he refused because he didn't want to use his craft to depict something he didn't want to. Much like an artist not wanting to do porn for people. Which they're perfectly allowed to do.

The concern is over precedent set that could used to discriminate for more services, and more critical in some cases, than cake.

Personal OPINION on it is that you, as a private business, should be able to be decline at will in cases of non essential services only, so not gasoline, groceries, etc, especially given we're in the social media age where choosing to do so can have huge market consequences. But the precedent set here is that any discrimination is ok which is going to cause problems before a middleground gets reached in an inevitable future hearing.

A counterpoint to my own opinion though is that businesses, even private businesses, are often beneficiaries of public and government funded services and as such shouldn't be allowed to discriminate. Taxpayers and the public fund things like the roads they rely on to stay in business, and even often things like food stamps to subsidize their payroll, which should be taken into account.

[Themius]

God people from the left are so dense... You realize that the arabic cake means jack shit to anything about this case right??? the REFUSAL to bake a confederate heritage cake would fall under the same protections here if you want to say that this baker is forced to bake a cake for a wedding thats a abomination to his faith. then wal-mart better start printing confederate flag cakes...

Same protections? One is about religion you seem to be what you're accusing me of.

[Arrkon]

but shouldn't the driver be free to exercise their "religion"

The driver knows what the job requirements pertain before being hired to do his job. Assume AAA as a whole refuses service to minorities then the another company to leap on the opportunity to provide service and make a profit creating a competitive capitalist solution.

[Bullettime]

Quit the emotional bullshit. We're talking about a cake. Not medical trearment. It doesn't matter what I think. This is what you fail to grasp. Personal opinions don't matter. I'd bake any cake someone paid me. But homosexuals are not a protected class. I'll say it again. Homosexuals are not a protected class. They're not protected by federal discrimination laws. Quit injecting your personal morality into the law. The two aren't connected.

You fail to understand how legal precedent works. The precedent set by this case allows for discrimination of more critical services than just cake. That's why this ruling was so important.

[Themius]

Quit the emotional bullshit. We're talking about a cake. Not medical trearment. It doesn't matter what I think. This is what you fail to grasp. Personal opinions don't matter. I'd bake any cake someone paid me. But homosexuals are not a protected class. I'll say it again. Homosexuals are not a protected class. They're not protected by federal discrimination laws. Quit injecting your personal morality into the law. The two aren't connected.

Literally the only one injecting morals are those that think discrimination against me is okay. Do you not think gays should be a protected class? Also this case is about the fucking precedent it sets. You sound like a person in the 40s "I mean I'd bake cake for negroes but negroes aren't a protected class so stop injecting your morals!" Sounds retarded right?

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The driver knows what the job requirements pertain before being hired to do his job. Assume AAA as a whole refuses service to minorities then the another company to leap on the opportunity to provide service and make a profit creating a competitive capitalist solution.

And if no other company does because it is too expensive and they can't service people?

[Fenris65535]

What if I believe in a sect of Christianity that believes Mohammad to be a good, but not divine, prophet. I then ask a Muslim bakery to bake a wedding cake featuring prominently an image of Mohammad. The Muslim bakery refuses. Is the Muslim now required by law to depict Mohammad?

This is why we apply law based off the actual law and not perceived oppression hierarchies. That includes occasionally protecting someone's right to be an asshole.

If your proposed or supported course of action feels good when applied to straight white Christians, but sounds racist or unfair when applied to Muslims, Homosexuals and non-whites, then it is racist or unfair by nature.

[Nihilist74]

So what if all the grocery stores decide they don't want to sell to gay people because it is against their religion? All the gay people or any other people starve because they cant buy groceries?

[Darsithis]

This is how you feel. Not the law. Private business refuse service all the time. Homosexuals aren't a protected class. End of discussion.

I agree, it's shitty. But in a free society, sometimes people's feelings get hurt.

So if I decline an illustration commission involving porn, I should do it anyway? That's silly dude. He wasn't refusing service because the people were gay, he refused because he didn't want to use his craft to depict something he didn't want to. Much like an artist not wanting to do porn for people. Which they're perfectly allowed to do.

If I remember correctly, the cake bakers were not a private business. They were a public bakery. They weren't a commission-based artisan bakery who, of course, has the right to accept or reject clients. They were a business open to the public, refusing service to portions of the public they didn't like.