Justice Dept. sides with baker who refused to make wedding cake for gay couple

[kail]

Basically what happened was once it was found out they were gay they refused to do anything... they couldn't get any type of service. Want a plain basic cake? Nope because "religion". There wasn't even talk of "gay designs" because it never got that far. It was like if I walked into a place, said I wanted some sandwiches and they go "oh yeah we have this one and this one" then they see I'm gay and they're like "yeah we have all these sandwiches but you're gay so we aren't serving you any" I didn't even get to design anything yet.

Source for this, I'm seeing way too many different stories and the small details matter a lot in this case. In the end, SCOTUS will have all the evidence they can possibly collect and make their decision on who's right and wrong. I was under the impression that the baker just won't make a cake for a gay wedding but would serve them other goods. If anything, I thought that was the very basis of this case: Baker refuses to make a cake for a gay wedding. But if it's blanket refusal of service, the baker's screwed.

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Then I want to watch a mexican baker be forced to make a cake that says Build that Wall Deport them all... and if he refused sue his ass into bankruptcy... If you believe you have no moral say in what you make as someone who creates things then you would have no objections to my above scenario.

Baker can refuse making certain products or content (consistent with all their customers), they just can't refuse specific classes of people.

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Didn't break the law, court sided with them. Isn't that how this works?

DoJ isn't the court, another thing that needs to be clarified in this thread.

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Doesn't matter. It's still a privately owned business.

Another thing that needs to be clarified: It makes zero difference. A privately owned business or a publicly traded corporation abide by the same anti-discrimination laws. You want to know the main difference between a private and public business? Simply who owns it.

[kail]

The bolded part is the relevant part. If someone requested a dick shaped cake for a gay wedding and the baker said "no, I won't do that for anyone" then they're in the clear. If someone requested a standard white wedding cake and the baker said "no, I won't bake that, despite being comfortable baking the same exact cake for my straight customers" then any reasonable court would rule that to be illegal discrimination.

We don't know the facts of the case, so if all the MMO-C computer chair jurors could kindly stfu and stop turning this forum into their personal political/trollbait echo chamber, that'd be GREAT.

I've been asking myself if someone can refuse service/goods when they know what it's going to be used for. Of that, I don't know the legality.

[Sargerasraider]

Source for this, I'm seeing way too many different stories and the small details matter a lot in this case. In the end, SCOTUS will have all the evidence they can possibly collect and make their decision on who's right and wrong. I was under the impression that the baker just won't make a cake for a gay wedding but would serve them other goods. If anything, I thought that was the very basis of this case: Baker refuses to make a cake for a gay wedding. But if it's blanket refusal of service, the baker's screwed.

Unlikely. First, sexual orientation (as has been noted in this thread), is not a protected class. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 mandates very specific reasons for which refusal of service is unlawful.

There are currently two US courts of appeals which have ruled in opposite ways on this matter, but given the Court's current makeup, it is likely that they rule with the businesses. Justice Kennedy's reasoning in Obergefell (which I tend to agree with) would not apply in this case.

While a narrow ruling is likely, I wouldn't be surprised if there is either a majority or substantial minority that would push that title II of the Civil Rights Act is unconstitutional under a first amendment freedom of association argument. (Going to predict here - 5-4 decision. The 5 majority justices will agree with the business, but will split into 2 groups, Kennedy and Roberts with a narrow ruling saying that sexual orientation is not protected so the baker's first amendment rights come first, and Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch saying that title II of the CRA is unconstitutional and private businesses can refuse business for any reason).

Again (as I've noted on this forum in the past): if a private business discriminates, you are free to take your business elsewhere and tell people not to shop there. As has been seen recently, public opinion has been very effectively turned against these businesses. You don't need big brother and the power of the law on top of this.

[Masark]

Unlikely. First, sexual orientation (as has been noted in this thread), is not a protected class. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 mandates very specific reasons for which refusal of service is unlawful.

Do more reading. This case is in Colorado, where state law makes it a protected class.

[Sargerasraider]

Do more reading. This case is in Colorado, where state law makes it a protected class.

Again, this case will come to the Supreme Court this year. I posted how I think the ruling will go (combination of justices either ruling that freedom of religion under first amendment trumps state law or freedom of association trumps any attempt to curtail that). Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[The Penguin]

I don't care why you say you post the way you do. You posted twice basically saying the same thing the only difference was this post didn't quite facilitate the bait you were going for.

You know you saying nothing about my not saying anything or trying to suggest a bunch of made up bullshit. Like you can tell if I am angry from text, or that I insulted you because I called you out on your failed position in this argument.

You can go and say that "You're on the wrong side of History" mantra, I know where you got it and why you say it. The only problem is even if you repeat that nonsense enough I am sure you will believe it just long enough until reality bites you in the ass.


No there is nothing just about supporting people who choose to classify segments of the population they agreed to serve apart from anybody else that is part of the public based on the license they have been approved for.

All of this on the face of religious freedom bullshit, because even if we tossed out the law, that wouldn't apply even if you were a christian because there are NO tenants in the bible that support this horse shit, NONE

Just interpretations most of which nearly NO christians follow which is to hate the sinner over the sin, which couldn't be an issue because there is a separation between church and state. And while these homophobic assholes will use anything like most of the cowards that hang their shit on anything they can to punish those born different.

Most of the time these fucking hypocrites will say some shit like I don't believe in gay marriage, well guess what dip shit, I don't believe you are a fucking christian, and I am a christian, what is even more, I really rather not make it allowable to discriminate people based on who they choose to love either.

This is bullshit anybody else rationalizing this shit, whether they know it or not are complicite, and if they do know and they abide by this shit they are fucking cowards, and at the very least ok with being homophobic assholes.

Either you believe in one law for everyone or you don't but then if you don't you Mr Penguin can come off that horseshit about Google being a corrupt company because YOU feel uncomfortable they don't embrace this homophobic bullshit.

If they don't like it FUCK THEM, go use Yahoo, or any other service willing to back this kind of disgusting shit. That goes along with all the dipshit Alt-Right Neo Nazi wishing death on people because people aren't tolerant enough for their hate, fuck them too.


This isn't about a cake, this is about pretentious asshole trying to regulate certain people to the back of the bus because they think they shouldn't be allowed the same services as everybody else from a baker who agreed to it.

There is no statute that says well except for those who's legitimate person's you disagree, with.

Shit like this is the result of soft tolerance for bigotry like this and everybody can be right about shit, you aren't you are fucking wrong these dipshits are wrong, and nobody is obliged to be tolerant to these intolerant bakers.

It goes both ways, but me I just prefer they either made the god damn cake or moved somewhere like a Antarctica where maybe that wouldn't be a problem.



This isn't about the right to religious freedom, this is about homophobic bigots who use their press to hurt people who don't deserve it, and targets even more for future treatment.

This isn't about artistic merit either, it isn't like they refuse the order because the customer wants dicks drawn on the fucking thing.


They are refusing to put the names and decorate a wedding cake for marriage they don't believe in. Well tough shit, that isn't what they are hired to do, now is it the premise behind their license.

So now if all of what I said comes off to you as Angry, well so be it and you can go ahead and say whatever senseless meaningless contemptuous comment you want to make.

But you're wrong these idiots are wrong, and you just lost any credibility for the future to bitch about anybody punished for their choices going forward.

That's nice. /pats Mall Security on the head

[dvaz]

"Gas station pumps are regulated under each individual state's government by a bureau or division centered on standards and weights. They are responsible for keeping the sale of gasoline fair for consumers."

Regulated != owned.

If you want state owned gas/gas pump, go to Mexico.

[Rotted]

Do you guys honestly feel a business has the right to refuse service based solely on sex? If yes, how do you feel about businesses who refuse service based on race?

Race and Religion are two different things.

Regardless how ridiculous I find some religions when it comes to things like this, you can't blame the guy for refusing to make it.

[dvaz]

Well obviously gay people do because of dipshits that want to discriminate and mock by having a straight pride parade.

Gay people aren't seen enough as marines firefighters police doctors etc. especially when stupid people dismiss them as degenerated because of who people love. Yes a parade is needed to show visibility to show the value our society gets by letting them in everywhere.

Yup, not degenerated at all. Nope, 100% normal

[Thrif]

Wait, the first few pages of this thread isn't trolling? People actually think it's fine to discriminate against people due to their sexual orientation? I thought we passed that kind of bigoted thinking ages ago, but I guess not.

[Deleted]

Yup, not degenerated at all. Nope, 100% normal

This is honestly borderline child abuse. What the fuck...

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I'm still trying to figure out if he refused to make a specific cake, or if he refused to do business with gay people. A user said it was the latter, but then others said there was no source on this.

Apparently there are 2 or more cases of this happening and in at least one of them it was the refusal to make a cake saying "support gay marriage" and one of them having an image or couple on the cake making it "gay".

At this point the media is such a shitfest that I can't tell if this specific case is either one of them.

[Draco-Onis]

Maybe because nobody goes in and ask for a cake saying they are cheating on their spouse or twiddling the alter boy?

Why isn't he asking those questions? if his faith is so precious to him why isn't he taking measure so he won't commit other sins? then again why should I expect sense or logic from religious zealots.

[Louisa Bannon]

Am I being trolled or do you guys actually disagree with the civil rights movement?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins

I have heard that some people are so stupid that they don't even realize how stupid they are in the eyes of others. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect

We all knew this was a thing, now we have a name for it.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

go fuck yourself you hatefull little shit.

L O L probably the least hateful person you will ever converse with.

sjw on playa

[JohnBrown1917]

[IMG]http://thegrandadmiral.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/faggots-at-pride-parade.jpg[IMG]

Yup, not degenerated at all. Nope, 100% normal

That proves gay people are all 'degenerates'? lol

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

In a lot of places yes, but I imagine that in certain states or areas these businesses will survive just fine. It might also create certain areas where the number of people who have strong 'anti-black' or 'anti-gay' feelings is such an overwhelming majority, or too influential of one, which would effectively force black and gay people to move out of those areas - since they might for example no longer have access to certain essential services or shops.

Likewise you might see areas in the USA where shops will no longer service:
- whites
- police
- christians

It might even get worse when hospitals start doing similar things, at which point we've come full circle to being like those ISIS doctors who refuse to give women medical treatments.

one of the outcomes of our society i see playing out in my head is re segregation. but it will be done on our own, sometimes i wonder if it would be better. a place for whites / blacks / anyone else where they can just be surrounded by other people "like them." obviously there would be places where everyone can intermingle and live together too.

i dont like it, but it's sounding more and more like a possible solution to violence and BS every day.

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That proves gay people are all 'degenerates'? lol

not all, but that dom shit in public shouldn't be allowed by anyone. gay or straight. go to the sex dungeons for that shit.

im all good with my kids seeing rainbows, but that shit i will be shielding them from as much as possible lol

[JohnBrown1917]

not all, but that dom shit in public shouldn't be allowed by anyone. gay or straight. go to the sex dungeons for that shit.

im all good with my kids seeing rainbows, but that shit i will be shielding them from as much as possible lol

Then dont post unrelated crap.

[dokilar]

good ruling, while I wouldnt deny my services to someone based on their sexual orientation its their business and they should be able to run it any way they want.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

Then dont post unrelated crap.

i didnt, dont be a touchy bitch

was just commenting on the horrifying picture

[Deleted]

You cant force people to tolerate or accept certain things. These changes come from the people themselves, change can't be forced EVER.

Just get another baker, I am sure there are 200 more in the region.