Should mythic raiding going forward be tuned to be as easy as Emerald nightmare was?

[Richardbro]

It seems like after 3 months only 40ish guilds have killed Kil'Jaeden on mythic which is absurdly low.

For the health of the game and the health of raiding and most of our sanities, would you like mythic raiding to be tuned easier and closer to Emerald Nightmare difficulty?

Honestly, the world first race while still exciting for a few fans and the ones involved, should not be considered when creating the difficulty of raids. Attendance is dropping because mythic TOV, NH and now ToS were tuned very tight.

EN created a false hope in borderline mythic players, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Considering WoW is over 12 years old, creating mythic to be tuned to Emerald Nightmare's level will only be good for the game and the raiding community.

[Cracked]

It seems like after 3 months only 40ish guilds have killed Kil'Jaeden on mythic which is absurdly low.

Why do you feel like it should be more? The fact that there is unbeaten content for most of the population is good for the game. It might be a struggle if you raid 5 days a week and you can't kill KJ by now, but I mean come on, not everyone should be able to do everything.

That's like saying.. hey, only the top 0.01% get rank 1 titles? Maybe it should be as easy as winning an RBG.

EDIT: To elaborate, completion rates mattered in Vanilla and TBC, because newer content was essentially locked behind completing the old content, but today, it matters jack shit.

[GutsAP]

No, shitty players already have heroic, normal, and LFR.

[Kazuchika]

It's probably safer to say it won't be tuned as ridiculously as KJ unless the devs want to keep getting roasted by players for shitty encounter design

[Deleted]

To everyone that voted (and will vote) "no": show your helya, gul'dan and kj mythic kills proof or SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[potis]

No.

Apart from the KJ fight being bugged as hell and taking longer than it should and how hard it is, its not "meant" to be cleared that quickly by the average player.

There is a reason raids last 6 months or even longer usually, excluding Legion, they give you time to clear the content and themselves to create the next expansion/patch.

The tuning should be pretty much something like:

Same ilvl as the instance-->95% performance-->Killable.

Which means with higher ilvl, less performance required as it is already.

Sure, some things could change to make the fight more tolerable but overall i think their design is fine.

[Osmeric]

No, it should stay very hard, so it will die out.

[Deleted]

i'm deffinitely ok with ToV/NH difficulty, But ToS seems pretty off. On the one hand you have inquisition goroth and harjatan that are complete jokes not even worthy of heroic players, desolate being easy because killing templars is not required (and even when killing them it's an overall easy boss) and Maiden being killlable by 17/18-people raids if played correctly (DPS check is not tight at all, even with 5 or 6 healers), then you have mistress and sisters that where ok-ish, then you have Avatar and KJ that seems from another whole different raid and difficulty. And i'm okay with having a hard and long last boss like Gul'dan, but ffs, don't make one 300+ pulls boss then another boss that takes 600 and class stacking (in KJ's case, charge/blink/whatever stacking) because most guild will just burn out of the bosses.

[Advo]

If the numbers clearing Antorus are as low as I'm expecting, I think they'll take some rather big action. There were already fewer guilds raiding since Legion launched, and tomb is tanking remaining guilds left right and center.

[ryklin]

the incoming relic upgrades and ap over the next few weeks should see a major increase in guilds with avatar and KJ
blizz is doing the same thing they did in NH, halfway through the tier, they're introducing a slowly building buff to people. that's what ap is now, I'm surprised they nerfed mistress and avatar again too already rather than waiting for the crucible (although i'm not sure why they waited 2 extra weeks for the crucible)
for instance I know guilds that struggled to make the chronomatic dps check for a while, then never got past krosus until 7.2, but were able to clear M NH with the help of the upgrades
the only things I could see changing are possibly the damage of M KJ tank meteors and possibly a sated-like debuff for stampeding roar by the end of the xpac unless damage is still a major issue for a lot of people
the last avatar meteor nerf didn't really do much either and I never saw it before the knife nerf too

really, just as we saw in NH and ToV, good guilds just do hilariously more dps than average guilds right now and they stack more immunities/feints
for instance the hydra shot nerf barely did anything for my friend who was still on mistress's guild, but the 5% nerf got them a really close call kill on the enrage the week of the nerf, most the deaths on that fight are to oil->tornado/wave

Conversely, the big thing about EN was just that between higher max hp from artifact levels and your first 2 legendaries softening the healing check and a lack of instant death mechanics made it a really easy raid outside of cenarius and ilgy, which was probably the worst and most quickly dropped aspect of the artifact system, if blizz just added weekly max hp buffs to every tier, they'd probably all be considered easy

[durrtygoodz]

To everyone that voted (and will vote) "no": show your helya, gul'dan and kj mythic kills proof or SHUT THE FUCK UP!

hi i voted no

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Yes

Make it easier so I can play with one hand and drink coffe with other. Make it hard enough so it will be challenging and fun. Just so I won't pull my hair off and rage in front of the computer screen and still have sense of accomplishment and adventure!

[Whitedragon]

Yes

Make it easier so I can play with one hand and drink coffe with other. Make it hard enough so it will be challenging and fun. Just so I won't pull my hair off and rage in front of the computer screen and still have sense of accomplishment and adventure!

Buy an MMO gaming mouse (the ones with 12-15 extra keys) and you can. That's what I do most of the time

[callipygoustp]

Will there EVER be enough easy content for some players?

[Deleted]

No, it should stay very hard, so it will die out.

Haha! I remember having a discussion with you years ago about you hating the game. Nice to see you haven't moved an inch with your life since then bro

[Deleted]

imo they could just nerf some bosses after 10-20 guilds have been killed last boss on mythic.

[Osmeric]

Haha! I remember having a discussion with you years ago about you hating the game. Nice to see you haven't moved an inch with your life since then bro

The game != mythic raiding.

[Jastall]

Not as easy as EN, not as ridiculously punishing as Avatar and KJ. Nighthold has some tuning issues but overall it was a nice middle ground, so there's no reason that Blizzard cannot replicate it.

IMO final bosses should take about 300-400 kills for top guilds and not that much more, and be rekillable with some ease. A final boss that takes 800 pulls, and that nobody bothers to rekill because he's way too stupidly hard for the loot he drops, is failed encounter design IMO.

[Frolk]

As EN? lol no, if its too hard, go do LFR/norm/HC, the "false hope" ur speaking off, it also came from people who cleared mythic HFC in the final 5months thinking they were hardcore mythic raiders.

Nighthold tuning was mostly fine and how future mythic should aim to be, except for Spellblade and Augur(2heal-version)

[Deleted]

I'd say leave it difficult.
But it isnt that simple.
Because in a perfect world, players would see that content later, when they got more gear, making encounters easier. Because there would be a reason to still do content.
But as it is as soon as the new raid launches, all old content becomes void content.
So while i appreciate there's hard content, it seems kinda stupid to leave it so exclusive to only so few players, will experience it.