Traitor Russia sells S-400 advanced missiles to Turkey!

[HolgerDK]

which is pretty junk for anything more that burning empty pirate vessels. It doesn't 'make it laughable easy to shoot down incoming ordnance.'

Its designed to shoot down incoming ordnance - and also planes, helicopters and small boats. And has done so. No ammo required, just power - making it laughably easy.

[Deleted]

Its designed to shoot down incoming ordnance - and also planes, helicopters and small boats. And has done so. No ammo required, just power - making it laughably easy.

It doesn't shoot down incoming ordinance.

The LaWS is designed to be used against low-end asymmetric threats. Scalable power levels allow it to be used on low-power to dazzle a person's eye to non-lethally make them turn away from a threatening posture, and increase to 30 thousand watts (30 kW) to fry sensors, burn out motors, and detonate explosive materials. Against a vital point on small UAVs, one can be shot down in as little as two seconds. When facing small boats, the laser would target a craft's motor to disable it and make it "dead in the water," then repeating this against others in rapid succession, requiring only a few seconds of firing per boat. Targeting the platform is more effective than individual crewmembers, although the LaWS is accurate enough to target explosive rockets if on board, whose detonations could kill the operators. Against a larger aircraft like a helicopter, LaWS can burn through some vital components to cause it to fall and crash

its garbage. You have to LoS a critical point to make it do anything, which you might as well just use a 50cal. its good to impress people who like making lazer noises, not much else.

[HolgerDK]

It doesn't shoot down incoming ordinance.



its garbage. You have to LoS a critical point to make it do anything, which you might as well just use a 50cal. its good to impress people who like making lazer noises, not much else.

It does as it has been tested against an RPG and shot it down.

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It doesn't shoot down incoming ordinance.



its garbage. You have to LoS a critical point to make it do anything, which you might as well just use a 50cal. its good to impress people who like making lazer noises, not much else.

The only thing that is garbage is your "arguments".

[Deleted]

It does as it has been tested against an RPG and shot it down.

No. Its been pointed at a stationary rpg. So if you stand there holding a rpg it can blow you up. It can't stop anything that has been deployed...

[Deleted]

The joke is on Turkey here. It is generally accepted that the weapon systems Russia sells to third parties, like India and China, are downspecc'ed versions of the original system. Meaning only Russia has the 'real' S-400 system. Same thing goes with the planes they sell etc.

Also, it seems the US military has realized that laser weapon systems are not all that great in practice. So currently they are - literally - developing an electromagnetic railgun (yes, really), which fires a 'dumb' projectile made of solid Tungsten. Good luck dodging that when it comes screaming at you at Mach 7.

[caervek]

It's not a bad plan, sell Turkey S-400s and use the money to get the S-500s deployed into service quicker. Of course I'm sure Russia will find a way to screw it up XD

IIRC they did a similar thing with the S-300 in the 90s.

[Z-Man]

That depends on how sophisticated USA's intelligence tools are and Turkey's counter measures. As far as I am concerned, in the latest years, Turkey's defense industry hit some mile stones when it comes to secure communication. Staff-based intelligence us unlikely to happen, especially after purging Gulenists from the army. Turkey will not officially or non-officially share information about S-400 systems. I very much doubt even we can attempt to reverse engineer it.

There's no need to reverse-engineer it, Turkey also purchased the plans for building them, as has India and South Korea. That's a whole lot of filing cabinets to protect. It wouldn't surprise me if the US intelligence community doesn't already have a working S-400 system in hand somewhere. (It's just an improved S-300 from the 80s. There are launchers and missiles scattered all over the planet if someone wanted to get their hands on one.)

[Slant]

Please, not trying to be a country jockey here. But the U.S and Germany are "THE" Intelligence countries. Its why back when the wiki leak stuff happened showing we had surveillance in countries that their response was a slap on the wrist. Its because they invited us in [There wont ever be an official statement but from something as damaging as that unless it was also state favored it woulda been wars.]

Actually, the US and Germany are probably still behind Israel when it comes to intelligence. If Israel was interested in anything beyond their immediate surroundings, that is. The fact that the only times you hear about Mossad is when Israel goes to war is the true sign of proper intelligence. :P

German intelligence only ever seems to popup when they buy information from someone else's intelligence service.

[Deleted]

So they sold it to NATO? But not only NATO but to the NATO member that has no problem popping shots at Russians.

Russia must really be going broke.

I call BS. Either the equipment is bugged or the story is fake, no way Russia is THAT desperate.

Yes Russia are "desperate" for political allies. Hence they give out missiles as a gift/bribe. (they also seem to be sold on credit) Not also that S-500 is planing to replace the S-400, so its not the best stuff Russian have....

[Blade Wolf]

Why do people need this?!?!?!

Countries are arming up as if ww3 has already come.

What a waste of money. I swear this is some tinfoil hat shit these "leaders" do to make their friends and themself richer by the day.

Weapon sales, especially to regions that arent under attack, are idiotic garbage.

"we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex." War is business. Why do you think Trump decided to stay in afghanistan, because the money made from that war is a massive profit.

[Kellhound]

It's probably taken by Aegean armies command, which is not part of NATO and is the biggest army in Turkey. I am not sure how things are in other countries, but in Turkey, some armies (total of 4 armies) are part of NATO, some are not and do not conduct business with NATO on any level.

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I welcome the news. It's an effective weapon system, and not part of NATO. Turkey should conduct some reverse engineering business ASAP.

Keeping the bulk of your forces out of NATO shows the lack of commitment to NATO Turkey has, not that Turkey's ground forces are that modern by and large (I mean the still have M-48s for pete's sake!).

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It doesn't shoot down incoming ordinance.



its garbage. You have to LoS a critical point to make it do anything, which you might as well just use a 50cal. its good to impress people who like making lazer noises, not much else.

It has several advantages over a projectile weapon, not the least of which is variable lethality.

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Yes Russia are "desperate" for political allies. Hence they give out missiles as a gift/bribe. (they also seem to be sold on credit) Not also that S-500 is planing to replace the S-400, so its not the best stuff Russian have....

There is also the simple fact that modern Russian SAMs have no combat record, and historically SAMs have proven far less capable than advertised.

[Kuntantee]

Keeping the bulk of your forces out of NATO shows the lack of commitment to NATO Turkey has, not that Turkey's ground forces are that modern by and large (I mean the still have M-48s for pete's sake!).

Turkey is the most committed NATO member after USA. We are meeting defense budget, as well as other requirements, since the beginning. Also, Turkey's ground forces are modern enough to be a deterrent.

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There's no need to reverse-engineer it, Turkey also purchased the plans for building them, as has India and South Korea. That's a whole lot of filing cabinets to protect. It wouldn't surprise me if the US intelligence community doesn't already have a working S-400 system in hand somewhere. (It's just an improved S-300 from the 80s. There are launchers and missiles scattered all over the planet if someone wanted to get their hands on one.)

That's interesting. I wasn't aware that build plans were part of the contract.

[Z-Man]

That's interesting. I wasn't aware that build plans were part of the contract.

Two batteries to be delivered, two to be built by Turkey. Most of the S-400 customers are demanding local production as part of the contracts now.

[HolgerDK]

No. Its been pointed at a stationary rpg. So if you stand there holding a rpg it can blow you up. It can't stop anything that has been deployed...

Are you really that dumb? - it has been approved for defensive use by US Navy and here you can see your argument get destroyed by the LaWS firing on a moving target:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:L...USS_Ponce.webm

[Deleted]

Are you really that dumb? - it has been approved for defensive use by US Navy and here you can see your argument get destroyed by the LaWS firing on a moving target:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:L...USS_Ponce.webm

Yea its blowing up a munition that isn't deployed its on a table......are you dumb?

[HolgerDK]

Yea its blowing up a munition that isn't deployed its on a table......are you dumb?

No, clearly you are.

[Deleted]

No, clearly you are.

Why because you linked the same video I did showing a lazer blow up a munition on a table? Good one.

[Astalnar]

Last I checked Turkey was part of NATO (sadly), not Russia. So, Russia can be a lot of things, but please do elaborate how can it be a "traitor" and to whom?

[HolgerDK]

Why because you linked the same video I did showing a lazer blow up a munition on a table? Good one.

No, because you claim the LaWS can't hit a moving target despite evidence of the opposite.

[Deleted]

No, because you claim the LaWS can't hit a moving target despite evidence of the opposite.

no that isn't what i claimed. You said it shoot down incoming ordnance. It can't.