Can Conservatives ever quit the Southern Strategy?

[Cthulhu 2020]

So... insurance companies were just supposed to eat the costs? I mean what jackass thought they were going to do as much?

If your insurance premiums went up by several thousand percent, then you belonged to a company that was heavily subsidizing your insurance before the mandate and decided to pull a political move by removing that subsidy as a way of influencing their voters on which way to vote.

If your insurance premiums spiked 20-30% one year and then have been about 10-15% every year after that, then insurance inflation for you is already down, and you just weren't paying attention to your annual premium increases.

If you were on one of those catastrophe plans that covered very little and cost very little, congrats, the ACA got you out of what was effectively a scam.

[Glorious Leader]

I like how one guy said my concerns are "first world problems" and then you literally hit me with concerns that are little more than "first world problems".

While I actually think things aren't that bad at the moment based upon a more grounded and simplistic view of what really constitutes as bad. Like starving. Complete collapse of the economy. Caught in nuclear war. You know, truly horrible shit.

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So... insurance companies were just supposed to eat the costs? I mean what jackass thought they were going to do as much?

Nobody but that really only buttresses the point. The profit motive makes healthcare much more costly then it has to be. They should.eat the difference or they shouldnt exist and healthcare should be a public monopoly.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Oppressive dictatorship?

I don't care what promises he backed or didn't back, again, I didn't vote for him.

I haven't seen an effective government in my lifetime so how is this any different? Because it's not your brand of defective? Again, this will probably be four years of little to nothing and then you guys can squabble and bitch between yourselves how you want to fuck shit up further after that.

It's hard to take someone seriously when they just start insisting government has been dysfunctional their entire life because reasons. For all of its flaws, the government has operated quite effectively despite whines and anecdotes to the contrary.

[Daelak]

So... insurance companies were just supposed to eat the costs? I mean what jackass thought they were going to do as much?

You're almost there. Insurance companies don't have the actuarial pool sizes that are needed to stop price volatility and flatten rising healthcare costs.

[Sky High]

"their identity politics are bad but ours are good!" TM

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

If your insurance premiums went up by several thousand percent, then you belonged to a company that was heavily subsidizing your insurance before the mandate and decided to pull a political move by removing that subsidy as a way of influencing their voters on which way to vote.

If your insurance premiums spiked 20-30% one year and then have been about 10-15% every year after that, then insurance inflation for you is already down, and you just weren't paying attention to your annual premium increases.

If you were on one of those catastrophe plans that covered very little and cost very little, congrats, the ACA got you out of what was effectively a scam.

No, premiums spiked because we have a growing chronic disease epidemic in this country and overnight our government told insurance companies they'd have to take every last one of them on. You're talking about a significant increase in costs to these companies and it agitates the unholy fuck out of me I have to defend them BUT this was all inevitable and foreseeable.

Meanwhile I'm paying for all of them. I'm paying for health insurance almost as much as I pay for my car on a monthly basis and I hardly if ever use it. I rarely go to clinics. I tend to suffer illnesses and power through them. I try to be healthy. Exercise. Eat responsibly. Yet I've been now tied into a system, by force, with every sick mother fucker and their mom within the whole of the United States. How did you or anyone think that'd work out well for anyone BESIDES the pre-conditions and those without healthcare in the first place?

I'm not okay with this. There is nothing to be okay with.

[Daelak]

Great, the system is working. The laws that are based on race will be struck down. The ones that are not based on race are not in violation.

Some are still in place, and for other states, haven't been challenged.

[Edge-]

I like how one guy said my concerns are "first world problems" and then you literally hit me with concerns that are little more than "first world problems".

I didn't see that in the post you were responding to. But I fail to see how

1. "first world problems" (I get that it's being dismissively referenced) aren't relevant to the US...it's a first world nation. Things like our relationships with out economic and strategic allies matter a lot. That's not some trivial bullshit when military allies start questioning whether or not you can be relied upon.

2. Those departments running on skeleton crews, losing institutional knowledge, and in the case of the EPA engaging in some of the most shady behavior possible (banning phones/notes at meetings, delivering verbal orders so there aren't paper trails etc.). Those are big deals, because staffing departments up after they've run on a skeleton crew is hard, especially when you've lost countless career employees who have worked under Democratic and Republican administrations without issue.

While I actually think things aren't that bad at the moment based upon a more grounded and simplistic view of what really constitutes as bad. Like starving. Complete collapse of the economy. Caught in nuclear war. You know, truly horrible shit.

I mean, if you want to basically treat government in the Maslow's heirarchy of needs sense, I guess you're right. The most fundamental of needs are being met.

But this isn't a third world nation, we're well past "the bar" being meeting the most core, fundamental needs. Why you keep posting as if the only bar the US needs to reach is the lowest bar set for developing third world nations, I don't know. Is that how you view the US?

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Nobody but that really only buttresses the point. The profit motive makes healthcare much more costly then it has to be. They should.eat the difference or they shouldnt exist and healthcare should be a public monopoly.

Knowing this as any sensible human being should, why bother? Just to upset people and break them down into surrendering towards something more absolute and even more government involved? Typical, shady ass, bullshit.

[Glorious Leader]

Knowing this as any sensible human being should, why bother? Just to upset people and break them down into surrendering towards something more absolute and even more government involved? Typical, shady ass, bullshit.

More government involved is not a negative in this case. Subsidizing health care costs only makes american business and the americanc eonomy more competitive. As the rest of the world.managed to.figure out.

[Dextroden]

It's hard to take someone seriously when they just start insisting government has been dysfunctional their entire life because reasons. For all of its flaws, the government has operated quite effectively despite whines and anecdotes to the contrary.

In the same fashion, it's hard to sell people the idea that Donald Trump will bring ruin and exile to the country that survived Reagan, Nixon and Bush Jr. He's an idiot and we'll have to waste time fixing some things, but we'll be here.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I didn't see that in the post you were responding to. But I fail to see how

1. "first world problems" (I get that it's being dismissively referenced) aren't relevant to the US...it's a first world nation. Things like our relationships with out economic and strategic allies matter a lot. That's not some trivial bullshit when military allies start questioning whether or not you can be relied upon.

2. Those departments running on skeleton crews, losing institutional knowledge, and in the case of the EPA engaging in some of the most shady behavior possible (banning phones/notes at meetings, delivering verbal orders so there aren't paper trails etc.). Those are big deals, because staffing departments up after they've run on a skeleton crew is hard, especially when you've lost countless career employees who have worked under Democratic and Republican administrations without issue.



I mean, if you want to basically treat government in the Maslow's heirarchy of needs sense, I guess you're right. The most fundamental of needs are being met.

But this isn't a third world nation, we're well past "the bar" being meeting the most core, fundamental needs. Why you keep posting as if the only bar the US needs to reach is the lowest bar set for developing third world nations, I don't know. Is that how you view the US?

I won't argue with you that everything is perfect and ideal, even by my own standards. I just don't tend to vote unless I feel someone is jiving with me OR a candidate is so threatening I cannot possible fathom the idea of them being voted into office. Trump didn't really scare me. I know he did many but I think I saw him for what he was. While not impressed, I wasn't exactly terrified either.

Mind you, I'm a guy who'll date men (interracial too no less), used to dress up like a woman in his teens (and got his ass beat half to death for it one day too!) and is considering transitioning. I am practically the trifecta of what the Democrats were appealing to in their arguments against Trump during the election. Since, sadly, policies became less relevant and everything devolved into identity pandering.

As I mentioned a couple of times before. If I absolutely HAD to vote it would've been Hillary. I even drove to the polls, decided to just go home. Silly me, forgot that I live in Texas. As if Texas, in any shape or form, could possibly swing Hillary so I was quite literally wasting my time anyway. Additionally, it stung my soul just a bit that I almost did as much. Picked the whole, "lesser of evils" thing. I fucking hate false dichotomies. We always have choices. People just don't want to exercise them and play games instead.

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More government involved is not a negative in this case. Subsidizing health care costs only makes american business and the americanc eonomy more competitive. As the rest of the world.managed to.figure out.

It CAN but not like this. Again, I'm not 100% dead-set against government healthcare but it needs to be done right and with a long national discussion on the matter.

This isn't some switch you can flip on and off.

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It's hard to take someone seriously when they just start insisting government has been dysfunctional their entire life because reasons. For all of its flaws, the government has operated quite effectively despite whines and anecdotes to the contrary.

Whatever. I argue the complete opposite. I think it's been a mismanaged train wreck. Go look at the Middle East for Exhibit A.

[Edge-]

It CAN but not like this. Again, I'm not 100% dead-set against government healthcare but it needs to be done right and with a long national discussion on the matter.

This isn't some switch you can flip on and off.

FYI there aren't any proposals for "government health care", in none of the Medicare for all etc. proposals does the government actually administer the care like they do in the VA.

It's government paid health care, just like Medicare. All they're doing is paying for the care and setting similar kinds of standards that they've set in the past (especially under the ACA), they're not actually involved in treatment.

It's a rather important point that needs to remain clear to avoid any potential confusion.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

FYI there aren't any proposals for "government health care", in none of the Medicare for all etc. proposals does the government actually administer the care like they do in the VA.

It's government paid health care, just like Medicare. All they're doing is paying for the care and setting similar kinds of standards that they've set in the past (especially under the ACA), they're not actually involved in treatment.

It's a rather important point that needs to remain clear to avoid any potential confusion.

I'm aware of this.

Again, however, simply throwing money at the problem is not the solution. Otherwise we'd be in a lot better shape in so many different ways currently if that was the case. There's a bit more to it than that.

[Elegiac]

I'm aware of this.

Again, however, simply throwing money at the problem is not the solution. Otherwise we'd be in a lot better shape in so many different ways currently if that was the case. There's a bit more to it than that.

If only there were other developed nations with universal healthcare systems that have been tried and tested already.

[Edge-]

Again, however, simply throwing money at the problem is not the solution. Otherwise we'd be in a lot better shape in so many different ways currently if that was the case. There's a bit more to it than that.

Except it's not simply "throwing money at a problem", it's fundamentally changing how the problem is handled. And by many estimates, it would actually involved throwing less money at the problem (on average for taxpayers) than they are now so...yeah, about that.

[Kujako]

If only there were other developed nations with universal healthcare systems that have been tried and tested already.

To be fair, there is no other country with Americas obsession with over prescribing drugs and unnecessary medical procedures that also have a single payer system.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

If only there were other developed nations with universal healthcare systems that have been tried and tested already.

Well, other nations also aren't keeping a huge chunk of their population by sheer force of will.

We're obscenely unhealthy as a people and it's only getting worse. Until the government stops being a puppet of the food industry, I'm skeptical we can get meaningful reform and create a system that won't collapse under its own fat ass.

[Edge-]

Well, other nations also aren't keeping a huge chunk of their population by sheer force of will.

What?

We're obscenely unhealthy as a people and it's only getting worse. Until the government stops being a puppet of the food industry, I'm skeptical we can get meaningful reform and create a system that won't collapse under its own fat ass.

So...you don't want more government by way of them providing Medicare for all or a similar program...but you want more government to regulate what people eat to make folks more healthy?

Wut?

You realize those two issues are actually pretty closely linked, right?

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

What?



So...you don't want more government by way of them providing Medicare for all or a similar program...but you want more government to regulate what people eat to make folks more healthy?

Wut?

You realize those two issues are actually pretty closely linked, right?

I meant to say, alive. Other nations aren't keeping a huge chunk of their population alive, by sheer force of will.

I'm saying, both are in fact hand-in-hand. You can't have a good, cost-effective system if your population is obscenely unhealthy. You're also going to have to change perceptions on what qualifies as a "doctor's visit" and what doesn't as people tend to abuse the system currently. I know hypochondriacs that, unlike most, love to see the doctor for every concern that arises.

Similarly, you need to be more concise about what is covered. I'm pretty sure you could create an itemized list and find a lot of things unnecessary. Like Viagra. Your erection, is not the public collective's concern. Obviously.

It sounds easy on paper but in reality, it'd likely require more than just a reformation of healthcare and the perceptions surrounding it but also government lobbying. Again, back to the food industry. Back to the insurance industry. The current healthcare industry. Pharma industry. All will be vying to stop such a comprehensive makeover. Their power and influence has to be somehow limited if not outright removed.