Anyone notice the similarities between Neanderthals and Dwarves?

[Doctor Amadeus]

You're conflating dwarfs (people with various forms of dwarfism) with dwarves (the mythical race originating from Germanic mythology).

And I would say there are superficial similarities. Neanderthals were stout hominins with a pronounced brow ridge, stocky limbs and the genes for red hair.

Again, this isn't to say that Neanderthals inspired dwarves in Germanic mythology which would later be used by Tolkien and appear in a lot of Medieval Fantasy.

No there isn't and you are conflating a meaning without a distinction, you are equating Dwarves in the mythical sense with Dwarfs that actually are real human beings.

Andrea the Giant was a real Giant, not jack and the beanstalk.


And no Germanic Mythology has fuck all to do with what you are talking about, the only reason YOU draw comparisons is because of Hollywood, which is based on the same bullshit I just explained about Sonic the fucking Hedgehog.

But but Hedgehogs do exist, yeah they do, but they aren't fucking rodents that run at a speed faster than sound.


There is ZERO connection to what you are talking about other than paint it drawing a red beard on a Neanderthal, seriously this is straddling right along the lines of flat earth nonsense.

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It's rather hilarious when you of all people are b*tching about credibility. Couldn't keep your toxic ignorance in the other thread?

Anyway, the connection between Neanderthals and dwarves (stories about dwarves, trolls and stuff are ancient and have been around far longer than recorded history) was one explanation I've heard years ago. However, the Neanderthal dna in modern humans is not just a theory, but a scientific fact.

http://www.sci-news.com/otherscience...dna-01734.html

No ignorance is linking a fucking article that doesn't reinforce your claims, there is no fucking connection to this made up bullshit, you drummed up because you watched too many fucking movies, seriously and no amount of copy pasta about neanderthal and genes found in modern humans is going to change that.

There is no evidence for your hypothesis, NONE, not even a little fucking bit.

[Escepticus]

No ignorance is linking a fucking article that doesn't reinforce your claims, there is no fucking connection to this made up bullshit, you drummed up because you watched too many fucking movies, seriously and no amount of copy pasta about neanderthal and genes found in modern humans is going to change that.

There is no evidence for your hypothesis, NONE, not even a little fucking bit.

You need to read more, you are very ignorant. And silly, if you think we are going to take your word instead of science, XD.

[Doctor Amadeus]

You need to read more, you are very ignorant. And silly, if you think we are going to take your word instead of science, XD.

Hahaha no Ill pass on Tolkien and all the other fantasy bullshit like Mein Kampf and everything else, I got the Cliff notes. It's the same emotional intellectual stupidity that has been drumming on for a while.

Science doesn't say anything concerning these artificial claims and the fact you think it does, clearly shows you didn't fucking actually read or understand it.

[McFuu]

Seriously FUCK LOTRs I am serious.

I swear to god no, no they don't have any similarities to fucking Dwarves. And if you mean Dwarfs no, because Dwarfs actually exist, and they aren't mythical humanoid creatures. Just like Elves, Goblins, Fairy's and Dragons don't exist.

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No, NO it's not interesting at all, it's silly, there isn't even a small amount of connection relevant to the idea. none.

Umad?

/Ancientmemes

[Elba]

Dwarfs = Jews, that is well known.

[Techno-Druid]

Dwarfs = Jews, that is well known.

Tolkien made allusions to the Hebrews with the dwarves, but as a mythological entity they pre-date Tolkien with most modern depictions mostly incorporating Norse/Scandinavia or other Germanic aspects into their culture with subtle references to Tolkien.

[Elba]

Tolkien made allusions to the Hebrews with the dwarves, but as a mythological entity they pre-date Tolkien with most modern depictions mostly incorporating Norse/Scandinavia or other Germanic aspects into their culture with subtle references to Tolkien.

Pratchett's Deep-Downers = Orthodox Jews.

[Techno-Druid]

No there isn't and you are conflating a meaning without a distinction, you are equating Dwarves in the mythical sense with Dwarfs that actually are real human beings.

No I'm not, I didn't even bring up the subject of dwarfism in my OP. I'm saying that Neanderthals were roughly similar in morphology to how most fantasy depicts dwarves.

Andrea the Giant was a real Giant, not jack and the beanstalk.

Andre had some form of gigantism, he isn't a real giant as in being a member of a species classified as giants nor was even close to the size that most giants in mythology are.

Also, why even mention this?

And no Germanic Mythology has fuck all to do with what you are talking about, the only reason YOU draw comparisons is because of Hollywood, which is based on the same bullshit I just explained about Sonic the fucking Hedgehog.

Of course Germanic mythology does, it's where our modern concept of the fantasy dwarf originated from. I'm not an expert on Norse mythology but dwarves are one of the races that feature prominently.

And how I am being influences by Hollywood? What the two movie trilogies that feature dwarves prominently?

But but Hedgehogs do exist, yeah they do, but they aren't fucking rodents that run at a speed faster than sound.

Hedgehogs aren't rodents, they're more closely related to shrews taxonomically and second, what does this have to do with a thread comparing the superficial traits of an extinct hominin to a fantasy humanoid?

There is ZERO connection to what you are talking about other than paint it drawing a red beard on a Neanderthal, seriously this is straddling right along the lines of flat earth nonsense.

Except that I'm not claiming Neanderthals are/were dwarves in any way, Neanderthals were mostly absorbed into the Homo sapiens sapiens gene pool well before the end of the Pleistocene and the start of the Holocene where human civilization first developed.

For fucks sake, I'm only comparing the superficial physical traits of Neanderthals with those commonly associated with dwarves. That being a short, stocky humanoid with rugged features and long beards. I'm not claiming anything as fact nor am I even proposing some amateur hypothesis.

[Deleted]

Tyrion Lannister dissaproves of this thread

[rogueMatthias]

Well did you all know there were real hobbits?

[Putin-Chan]

Hahaha no Ill pass on Tolkien and all the other fantasy bullshit like Mein Kampf and everything else, I got the Cliff notes. It's the same emotional intellectual stupidity that has been drumming on for a while.

Science doesn't say anything concerning these artificial claims and the fact you think it does, clearly shows you didn't fucking actually read or understand it.

You're equating Lord of the Rings with Mein Kampf? REALLY. One is meant to be a fantasy story through and through, and the other is a racist dictator's dream of the world. They are in no means the same at all. You're really fucking butt-hurt about a coincidence where fantasy could have been inspired by reality. NO. TOLKIEN DWARVES WERE NOT REAL. NOBODY BELIEVES THAT.

Did someone hit you over the head with a copy of Lord of the Rings when you were a kid or something?

[Logwyn]

No there aren't any theories by anybody who is fucking sane, none of this shit has a shred of fucking credibility.

Take your meds old man...

[NoiseTank13]

isn't Mall Security the guy who thinks Game of Thrones is the same thing as Brazzers Adult Network

[Putin-Chan]

isn't Mall Security the guy who thinks Game of Thrones is the same thing as Brazzers Adult Network

He's pretty obtuse. He's like in my top 3 most dense posters here. He's risen the ranks pretty quickly.

[therealstegblob]

Why the fuck the moderators allow Mall Security to rampantly de-rail threads with post after post of stupid shit that doesn't turn the conversation anywhere helpful is beyond me. Like 9 out of every 10 things the guy posts are essentially fucking spam.

[Doctor Amadeus]

No I'm not, I didn't even bring up the subject of dwarfism in my OP.

You are correct.

I'm saying that Neanderthals were roughly similar in morphology to how most fantasy depicts dwarves.

But they don't at all.

Andre had some form of gigantism

Ok since you are so articulat can you break down what that means in specific detail, see I don't know and since You are familiar rather than refresh what I know, I like to maybe see if what you said matches up with what I understand gigantism is.

he isn't a real giant as in being a member of a species classified as giants nor was even close to the size that most giants in mythology are.

Andrea is the only real Giant in this conversation the giants in mythology didn't fucking exist.

Also, why even mention this?

Because it's reality and that is important in this context.

Of course Germanic mythology does, it's where our modern concept of the fantasy dwarf originated from. I'm not an expert on Norse mythology but dwarves are one of the races that feature prominently.

No it doesn't the dwarves you are talking about where artistic liberties taken from illustration of a book that in and of itself had a very different fucking take and what you might expect dwarves to look like you refer to.

And Tolkan didn't fucking live thousands of years ago, and he wasn't especially aware of any knowledge we aren't today.

The book is a complete fucking article of fiction.

And if you are going to try the inspiration from that all the inspiration that exist is basically nonsense told also in different variations to the point where there is almost no real certainty about the claims if you want to call them that which were again interpretations by those that might have articulated them.

And how I am being influences by Hollywood?

Because you are taking an artistic application of what dwarves looked like inspired by Hollywood in your OT that is why.

What the two movie trilogies that feature dwarves prominently?

There are several not just in video but comics and literature, and games.

Hedgehogs aren't rodents, they're more closely related to shrews taxonomically and second, what does this have to do with a thread comparing the superficial traits of an extinct hominin to a fantasy humanoid?

Because right now you have as much reason to believe Sonic the Hedgehog is real as Dwarves as you describe them, they both came from the same place fiction.

Except that I'm not claiming Neanderthals are/were dwarves in any way, Neanderthals were mostly absorbed into the Homo sapiens sapiens gene pool well before the end of the Pleistocene and the start of the Holocene where human civilization first developed.

Yes and how they are similar to fictional Dwarves.

For fucks sake, I'm only comparing the superficial physical traits of Neanderthals with those commonly associated with dwarves. That being a short, stocky humanoid with rugged features and long beards. I'm not claiming anything as fact nor am I even proposing some amateur hypothesis.

Ok Fair enough, and I am saying they have no similarities because one is real and the other is fake, and when I say real I am not talking about Dwarves.

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You're equating Lord of the Rings with Mein Kampf? REALLY. One is meant to be a fantasy story through and through, and the other is a racist dictator's dream of the world. They are in no means the same at all. You're really fucking butt-hurt about a coincidence where fantasy could have been inspired by reality. NO. TOLKIEN DWARVES WERE NOT REAL. NOBODY BELIEVES THAT.

Did someone hit you over the head with a copy of Lord of the Rings when you were a kid or something?

No, I would say they are the same thing when you have the same inspired nonsense taking on a life of it's own in the same fashion.

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isn't Mall Security the guy who thinks Game of Thrones is the same thing as Brazzers Adult Network

Yeah, and not a lot of takers on what the difference is.

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Why the fuck the moderators allow Mall Security to rampantly de-rail threads with post after post of stupid shit that doesn't turn the conversation anywhere helpful is beyond me. Like 9 out of every 10 things the guy posts are essentially fucking spam.

Helpful for you, but this isn't an echo chamber right, people have opinions on topics discussed, not opportunities for us all to theories and come to the same conclusions on ideas

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Take your meds old man...

Jello isn't ready yet.

[Logwyn]

Jello isn't ready yet.

Man. I'm jealous you get jello....

[derpkitteh]

yeah, if you see depictions of old norse dwarves, they do look similar.

imo, i think it's possible that our dating system could be wrong, and maybe neanderthals survived a bit longer than we thought.

or it could be a testament to the strength of spoken history. yes, it was altered over the thousands of years, but the fact that these people 'knew' a hairy, brutish looking people existed is pretty accurate.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Seriously FUCK LOTRs I am serious.

I swear to god no, no they don't have any similarities to fucking Dwarves. And if you mean Dwarfs no, because Dwarfs actually exist, and they aren't mythical humanoid creatures. Just like Elves, Goblins, Fairy's and Dragons don't exist.

Wrong. (To an extent.)

Tolkien, in particular, took lots of real world mythologies and histories and wove them into his stories. The whole point of his stories was to create a fictionalized history for our Earth based on all those things. So yes, it's very likely that the idea of Neanderthals influenced him as much as Norse, Germanic, and similar mythology did when he created his version of the dwarves.

And yes, some "fantasy creatures" did exist in real life. Most notably, pixies, which were clearly influenced by the Picts. Ditto for quite a few other mythological creatures; dragons almost certainly evolved from people trying to rationalize fossils they found, and later ramped up when Europeans started running into crocodiles and similar creatures in Africa. (The latter being an almost certainty for the whole St. George myth, especially when you see some depictions of what Europeans thought dragons looked like in regards to his story.)

[Doctor Amadeus]

Man. I'm jealous you get jello....

Man it's lime, with a little bit of whip cream on it.

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Wrong. (To an extent.)

Tolkien, in particular, took lots of real world mythologies.

Gonna stop you right there, UH AND NO!

and histories and wove them into his stories.

So did Walt Disney, so did SEGA of America.

The whole point of his stories was to create a fictionalized history for our Earth based on all those things.

Most important point fiction, about something that didn't happen, there is no evidence for ever having happened, and has very much the same inspiration as Sonic the Hedgehog.

So yes, it's very likely that the idea of Neanderthals influenced him as much as Norse, Germanic, and similar mythology did when he created his version of the dwarves.

Nice leap, but NO! In fact that conjecture doesn't even hold up to the random "Well if you weren't there, how do you know it was a big bang" and shit like that, well you see there's thing called evidence, and it gives us markers and certain places where we can hypothesis based on our 5 senses of observation, and patterns where things might have come from where they went, and how they got there. Then after we deduce and do enough experiments that can be confirmed and repeated as in demonstrated, then that leads into something becoming a theory, still a long way off but then you have to develop the research then have those with the same or similar fields review it, many many times, and then if all your evidence holds up against what is not then you have a theory based on what has been proven.


Tolkien didn't have any of this shit, and what was, was far less than we have no, which establishes no fucking factual basis for this bullshit idea whatsoever other than a movie.

And yes, some "fantasy creatures" did exist in real life.

No they did fucking not, a T Rex isn't a fantasy creature, it is exist because we have evidence for that. If we didn't it's a fantasy.

Most notably, pixies, which were clearly influenced by the Picts. Ditto for quite a few other mythological creatures; dragons almost certainly evolved from people trying to rationalize fossils they found, and later ramped up when Europeans started running into crocodiles and similar creatures in Africa. (The latter being an almost certainty for the whole St. George myth, especially when you see some depictions of what Europeans thought dragons looked like in regards to his story.)

Yes all fucking fiction based on observations that are as yet unconfirmed, at best some things maybe true, maybe it isn't, but that doesn't mean you get to fucking leap and say that is it.

That isn't how logic or evidence fucking works.

Now you can believe whatever you want, then you are talking about reason, fuck the science.


Why would you believe any of this shit exist especially since most of this made up shit, has never even been captured in the present day outside of the CGI or Hollywood studio, or perhaps unless you listen to a lot of late night radio.

Other than that shaky reasoning based on a lot of shaky perspectives of those with shaky stories, as inconsistent or ever changing nonsense depending whatever book they want to sell, what other reason would you have to conclude that any of this fantasy is real?