Harvard causes an uproar for hiring traitor convicted spy Chelsea Manning

[Elba]

Manning confessed to getting hundreds of Afghan informants murdered.

This severely impacted NATO's intelligence gathering in Afghanistan and many NATO troops were killed because of it, Canadians, British, French, Germans, Americans, etc.

But Manning did his time.

*her

Also, aren't the Afghan informants traitors? They worked with an occupying foreign military against their own country.

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Elba, you can still have government transparency without knowing troop movements, the military is its own entity that operates outside the bounds of the traditional government, its essentially its own "government".

But I don't have 100% transparency. Only with 100% transparency can I make 100% informed decisions.

You don't even have the traditional rights of US citizens while serving, so how the fuck would giving some basement dwelling turd classified military intelligence because he has a boner for terrorists help anyone? It doesn't.

Oh I know, and that is fucked up. I am happy to tell you that I am also opposed to the military chain of command and that soldiers should have the right to tell their superiors to fuck off just like any other employee.

[Stop Pretending]

*her

Also, aren't the Afghan informants traitors? They worked with an occupying foreign military against their own country.

This only proves that you really have no concept of what you were trying to say. Informants weren't working against their own government they were working against the Taliban. Afghanistan also gave and still has given permission for the us to be in their territory.

I mean it's like you just say words and hope that something that you say will actually be truthful. Sorry for you and hasn't happened yet.

Oh and by the way you still haven't used the word dictator right. But if you keep saying it you might finally be able to use it right maybe.

[Elba]

This only proves that you really have no concept of what you were trying to say. Informants weren't working against their own government they were working against the Taliban. Afghanistan also gave and still has given permission for the us to be in their territory.

I mean it's like you just say words and hope that something that you say will actually be truthful. Sorry for you and hasn't happened yet.

Oh and by the way you still haven't used the word dictator right. But if you keep saying it you might finally be able to use it right maybe.

I said country. Which the Taliban were. The current Afghani "government" was installed by the US.

[Zmaniac17]

*her

Also, aren't the Afghan informants traitors? They worked with an occupying foreign military against their own country.

Afghanistan is the bad guys. (sarcasm btw)

[JohnBrown1917]

They should. A democratically elected government serves the people. Anything else is a dictatorship.

If that puts soldiers at risk, so be it. Transparency and democracy are more important. Any citizen should have access to any document of any branch of the government and any agency or institution working for the government. Fuck, Trump's e-mails should be given out in real time. There should be a camera present during any and all session.

Guys, answer me this:

Why would you want your government to have secrets from you? Don't you want to know what the people you voted into office are doing?

Sometimes its better if it means your enemy will also know those secrets(terrorists for example). But Chelsea exposed war crimes, which is a whole different issue.

[Toogoodman]

I did not say that. I said the risk is worth the increase in democracy.

You literally said that putting troops lives in danger is better for the country because transparency....

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oh I know, and that is fucked up. I am happy to tell you that I am also opposed to the military chain of command and that soldiers should have the right to tell their superiors to fuck off just like any other employee.

absolutely not, this is the exact same reason your rights go away. It is an extremely complex system that needs to be maintained in order to operate functionally. It is completely outside the bounds of the public, and should remain so, it has absolutely no bearing on the civilian population, and to say it does is woefully ignorant.

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I said country. Which the Taliban were. The current Afghani "government" was installed by the US.

No.... Actually the "current" government existed before hand, it was just completely overpowered by the Taliban, who were oppressing the people. We simply gave the power back to the government, I figured this would be something that even you would support.

Also, saying you need transparency is ironic, considering you beloved Obama had one of the most secret administrations in US history.

And one more thing, saying you oppose the command structure of the US military is pretty hilarious, do you even know how the command structure works, or the inner workings of it? Do you know whos in charge of who? Do even know the rank structure without googling it?

[Zmaniac17]

You literally said that putting troops lives in danger is better for the country because transparency....

Here's an idea. Maybe if the public knew what was really going on they would be less likely to support putting troops in these countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory

It's 15 years later and we seem to be in the very same situation.

Authorization for use of Military Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Author...nst_Terrorists

Senate rejects bid to repeal AUMF https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1BO28V

[Toogoodman]

Here's an idea. Maybe if the public knew what was really going on they would be less likely to support putting troops in these countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_peace_theory

It's 15 years later and we seem to be in the very same situation.

Authorization for use of Military Force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Author...nst_Terrorists

Senate rejects bid to repeal AUMF https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1BO28V

I mean, hindsight is 20/20, its easy to say now "what a mistake it was" and trust me, i'm not a "fan of war", once you've lived it, you truly hate it. Its not Call of Duty, its not Overwatch, its not what a lot of people on these forums probably think it is. Its sitting around for months on end, essentially waiting to get ambushed while you support the mission, its absolute hell.

[Elba]

You literally said that putting troops lives in danger is better for the country because transparency....

No, I did not say it happening is better. I said it happening is acceptable.

absolutely not, this is the exact same reason your rights go away. It is an extremely complex system that needs to be maintained in order to operate functionally. It is completely outside the bounds of the public, and should remain so,

That's dumb. You shouldn't have to give up any rights unless you are a lawfully convicted felon.

it has absolutely no bearing on the civilian population, and to say it does is woefully ignorant.

It absolutely does. What happens to the troops on behest of the military command which operates on the behest of the government which is in power on the behest of the people does pertain us.

If an officer sends you into a dangerous situation and you get killed, and I, as a voter do not agree with that, should have that information so that I can threaten to vote out the government unless action is taken.

Or even better, All military officers should be directly elected by popular public vote. That way we the citizens can hold them accountable.

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No.... Actually the "current" government existed before hand, it was just completely overpowered by the Taliban, who were oppressing the people. We simply gave the power back to the government, I figured this would be something that even you would support.

Inner workings of a sovereign nation. Not our problem. Prime Directive, man.

Also, saying you need transparency is ironic, considering you beloved Obama had one of the most secret administrations in US history.

Beloved Obama? Obama is a war criminal.

And one more thing, saying you oppose the command structure of the US military is pretty hilarious, do you even know how the command structure works, or the inner workings of it? Do you know whos in charge of who? Do even know the rank structure without googling it?

I know. And I disagree with it. I think the military should be run democratically.

Democracy is good.

[Zmaniac17]

I mean, hindsight is 20/20, its easy to say now "what a mistake it was" and trust me, i'm not a "fan of war", once you've lived it, you truly hate it. Its not Call of Duty, its not Overwatch, its not what a lot of people on these forums probably think it is. Its sitting around for months on end, essentially waiting to get ambushed while you support the mission, its absolute hell.

Now that we have the benefit of hindsight it would be wise to use it. Classifying the information for 50 years and then releasing a PBS documentary on how it all went wrong way back when, isn't a good idea. More accountability is needed. But until that happens leaks and whistle blowers may be the only way. I definitely think information like this should be handled delicately, but transparency is desperately needed.

[Toogoodman]

No, I did not say it happening is better. I said it happening is acceptable.



That's dumb. You shouldn't have to give up any rights unless you are a lawfully convicted felon.



It absolutely does. What happens to the troops on behest of the military command which operates on the behest of the government which is in power on the behest of the people does pertain us.

If an officer sends you into a dangerous situation and you get killed, and I, as a voter do not agree with that, should have that information so that I can threaten to vote out the government unless action is taken.

Or even better, All military officers should be directly elected by popular public vote. That way we the citizens can hold them accountable.

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Inner workings of a sovereign nation. Not our problem. Prime Directive, man.



Beloved Obama? Obama is a war criminal.



I know. And I disagree with it. I think the military should be run democratically.

Democracy is good.

LMFAO officer should be democratically elected? im done, goodbye Elba

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Now that we have the benefit of hindsight it would be wise to use it. Classifying the information for 50 years and then releasing a PBS documentary on how it all went wrong way back when, isn't a good idea. More accountability is needed. But until that happens leaks and whistle blowers may be the only way. I definitely think information like this should be handled delicately, but transparency is desperately needed.

I agree that transparency is a good thing, but not to Elbas extent

[Maybach]

The Public has the right to know whatever its military does. There should be no secrets. Freedom of information.

I think this is a well meaning but nice sentiment

If the whole world had the same moral compass I would probably agree with you

However, look around the planet and you will find people who form terrorist groups that do not play by any rule book

You need the ability to undertake covert operations in order to counter these threats

You can't do that by publishing everything you do online, as Manning did, and expect to stay safe from these global threats

Taking your point to the nth degree you are effectively advocating that soldiers in Afghanistan sat on top of a hill in order to observe the taliban or ISIS and have them make their presence common knowledge amongst US citizens without them being compromised and killed

[Elba]

LMFAO officer should be democratically elected? im done, goodbye Elba

Okay, one last thing. Isn't more democracy better than less?

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I think this is a well meaning but nice sentiment

If the whole world had the same moral compass I would probably agree with you

However, look around the planet and you will find people who from terrorist groups that do not play by any rule book

You need the ability to undertake covert operations in order to counter these threats

You into do the by publishing everything you do online, as Manning did, and expect to stay safe from these global threats

Taking your point to the nth degree you are effectively advocating that soldiers in Afghanistan sat on top of a hill in order to observe the taliban or ISIS and have them make their presence common knowledge amongst US citizens without them being compromised and killed

I don't believe that terrorist organizations like ISIS are a legitimate threat towards the USA.

Cows and vending machines kill more Americans than Islamic terrorism. The costs in tax dollars, man power and soldier lives are a complete waste.

And Afghanistan... US troops shouldn't even be there. Bring them home tomorrow. Full withdrawal.

[Toogoodman]

Okay, one last thing. Isn't more democracy better than less?

Becoming an officer is a 4 year commitment is college, which you need a STEM degree, or mathematics based degree to become (they dont accept worthless degrees anymore). I also had 4 years of ROTC, to say that the average private could do that is laughable. I agree that democracy is a good thing, but military is completely different. Also, after the rank of Captain, you promotions are selected by members of congress, who review your resume extensiveness, so in essence, you are being promoted by elected officials, who in turn do the will of "the people". So, democracy plays a pretty huge role in it, that's why you get officers with such diametrically opposed political view points.

[Barnabas]

So what milestone of stupid is next for harvard? Will they make an ms-13 member a fellow also?

[Sunseeker]

I care so little about this.

[Maybach]

I don't believe that terrorist organizations like ISIS are a legitimate threat towards the USA.

Yes and the intelligence community thought the same of Al Qaeda until the twin towers got hit on 9/11

Your advocacy of absolute openness and no secrecy in turn relies on terrorists operating the same level of transparency in order that people can protect themselves from attacks

Can you really not see the flaw in that logic?

[Deleted]

So Harvard caved, fuck 'em.


Just keep inviting scumbags while taking back invitations to heroes like Chelsea.

LOL - Bradley Manning should have spent 35 years in prison. Because he is mentally disturbed (as was proven by his multiple suicide attempts), he actually should have been held in a mental hospital, maybe even in a padded room where he could not harm himself.

You folks refuse to "normalize" Trump while at the same time willingly try to normalize a complete whack job like Bradley Manning, even going as far as to actually call that DUDE "Chelsea". LOL - and you people think the Right is the problem in this country?

Glad Harvard "caved" - fuck Bradley Manning. That piece of shit should be in jail.

[Elba]

Yes and the intelligence community thought the same of Al Qaeda until the twin towers got hit on 9/11

Sure, sure. But I don't see them invading US mainland any time soon. I doubt ISIS has the capabilities to conquer you.

Your advocacy of absolute openness and no secrecy in turn relies on terrorists operating the same level of transparency in order that people can protect themselves from attacks

Can you really not see the flaw in that logic?

Stay outta the ME, wait a while, no more attacks because no more reason to. If the US completely withdraws militarily, diplomatically and economically form the Muslim world there would be no terrorism targeting the US after a decade or two.

Just leave them to their own devices.

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LOL - Bradley Manning should have spent 35 years in prison. Because he is mentally disturbed (as was proven by his multiple suicide attempts), he actually should have been held in a mental hospital, maybe even in a padded room where he could not harm himself.

You folks refuse to "normalize" Trump while at the same time willingly try to normalize a complete whack job like Bradley Manning, even going as far as to actually call that DUDE "Chelsea". LOL - and you people think the Right is the problem in this country.

Glad Harvard "caved" - fuck Bradley Manning. That piece of shit should be in jail.

Transphobic rants are just shitty, dude. Don't be like that.

[Maybach]

Sure, sure. But I don't see them invading US mainland any time soon. I doubt ISIS has the capabilities to conquer you.



Stay outta the ME, wait a while, no more attacks because no more reason to. If the US completely withdraws militarily, diplomatically and economically form the Muslim world there would be no terrorism targeting the US after a decade or two.

Just leave them to their own devices.

OK you are either incredibly naive or are simply baiting and I will go with the latter

Radical islamic doctrine states its intention to have the whole world under the black flag of islam by any means so sitting at home leaving them to their own devices, as you put it, simply doesn't work

Anyway I fell for the baiting, won't be responding to you again, have a nice day