Would Anarcho-Capitalism have Capitalism?

[Theodarzna]

Would Anarcho-Capitalism, or simply getting rid of the Government produce a Glorious Free Market Utopia? While it might seem obvious, with the name Anarcho-Capitalism, it would just be Capitalism but without the State. Finally! Freedom right? I say wrong. Actually the opposite would come about.

One of the defining characteristics of capitalist mass society is the change from relational to transactional methods of interaction. In brief, relational social interaction suggests a series of social exchanges which have history and emotional significance. These two dimensions--history and emotional energy--establish the power of the relationship to the participants.

The most obvious form of relational interaction is familial. After familial there is the type of traditional community role--priest, family doctor, local merchants such as barbers or grocers, and so on. In mass society it is not possible nor practical for a capitalist society to function entirely on a relational method--that is, repeated and emotionally meaningful interactions with the same people. The sheer volume of social behavior, and the continuous movement within a larger space, necessitates a very different kind of social interaction: transactional.

Transactional social interaction is characterized by the lack of connection between the participants. The ultimate transactional interaction would be an anonymous commercial exchange, such as purchasing goods or services.

This means of largely impersonal interaction depend on a high degree of trust. Mainly that both the merchant or the customer cannot rob or cheat the other, and some trust that mechanisms exist to enforce that. So, I sell candles, I want to be sure I won't be robbed by someone and that someone wants to be sure they don't have to duel me with pistols to get justice if I sold him or her bad or somehow defective candles. The other aspect is that we both depend on being socialized into certain normative behaviors, so for example if I hire someone, they will expect to work for a wage per hour ect. Not say someone who is accustomed to a task system or other forms of labor that existed for most of history. Or just the idea of how to buy and sell goods and services, and interact to purchase them. These socially normative behavior is taught, largely by the state and schools which standardize this behavior.

Now imagine if we removed the State entirely. How could transactional relationships have any security? A shopkeeper might encounter some mountain savage who is not raised with certain social norms on how to behave in a shop or be employed in accordance with the current standards we are all socialized to behave in. Second there is no security to enforce contracts or ensure everyone confidently will behave without violence or the threat of violence needed to protect themselves.

I think many AnCaps (Anarcho-Capitalist adherents) believe firmly that if the State were absent it could free Capitalism to its maximum potential, but in all likelihood it would make it again non-workable since the collective loyalty of ones family or community would become entirely critical for survival. But maybe I'm wrong and glorious AnCapistan would be wonderful Free Market Utopia. XD

[Deleted]

Can we have an ideology without the mountainfolk ruining it for everyone?.
Those people are the worst.

[Theodarzna]

Can we have an ideology without the mountainfolk ruining it for everyone?.
Those people are the worst.

It's all fun and games until the Mongols burn Baghdad to the ground. D:

[Cthulhu 2020]

Congrats on your revelation.

The "magic hand of the free market" exists solely to fist you in the ass. Many will argue otherwise, that a structureless capitalist anarchy would sort itself out. And yet we've already been there. Ancient kings were only as such because with no rules, they amassed wealth using their power and influence. Without structure or rules, they took what they wanted and then created their own structures and rules. Just like we're seeing today. But people keep on insisting on deregulation. Oh well, guess the trickle downers will get what's coming to them.

[Mittens]

Easy peasy we just form a pseudo state and kill everyone that disagrees.

[xChurch]

I mean sure it could work...if you wanted to end up in Elysium. Government is needed to prevent the worst of human impulses from having free rein. Even in small societies people who break trust usually face some kind of consequence other than just loss of trust. Most times in the past where Capitalism has had a freer rein it tends to end badly.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Easy peasy we just form a pseudo state and kill everyone that disagrees.

Create new economic model within a society, kill anyone who dissents. Sounds like it could work.

[Mittens]

Create new economic model within a society, kill anyone who dissents. Sounds like it could work.

Its brilliant, we can even call it "the freedom revolution".

[Theodarzna]

I mean sure it could work...if you wanted to end up in Elysium. Government is needed to prevent the worst of human impulses from having free rein. Even in small societies people who break trust usually face some kind of consequence other than just loss of trust. Most times in the past where Capitalism has had a freer rein it tends to end badly.

Elysium is a State however, or it has the form and style of a State. My point is that a State is necessary to coerce conformity, normative behavior and following the written rules.

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Its brilliant, we can even call it "the freedom revolution".

We could also acknowledge that Communism and this Managerial Capitalism are not the only answers under the sun.

[Mittens]

Elysium is a State however, or it has the form and style of a State. My point is that a State is necessary to coerce conformity, normative behavior and following the written rules.

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We could also acknowledge that Communism and this Managerial Capitalism are not the only answers under the sun.

Ok then, whats your solution.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Ok then, whats your solution.

Mixed market economics.

[Deletedaccount1]

You should read some books by good AnCap experts. People usually cite Murray Rothbard or Hans-Hermann Hoppe but the former relies on weak deontology and the latter isn't actually AnCap. I would recommend philosopher Michael Huemer's The Problem of Political Authority which is an intuitionist defense of anarcho-capitalism and David Friedman's The Machinery of Freedom third edition which is a utilitarian defense.

[GennGreymane]

Easy peasy we just form a pseudo state and kill everyone that disagrees.

Why does Theo always seem to want to give something unlimited power?

[Felya]

The problem is that people don't understand what governance is. Before you dive into theory of how government functions, you need to ask how the power is derived. In democracy, the power that grants government the ability to govern, is a majority. For a monarchy, the power that grants government the ability to govern, is money and all that it affords. So... what grants power in an idealistic anarchy? Now couple that with caparalism? How do you not end up in some totalitarian regime, where you are governed because you have no ability to say no?

[minteK917]

AnarchoCapitalism, is an extreme, hence it has no chance to work in the real world. Each time you hit one of the four corners: Anarcho capitalism, Anarcho communism, fascism, totalitarianism. They all cant work. Anybody defending any of them is living inside their head like an idiot. You cant have no rules or All rules controlled by a single entity, its just not possible, its never been done, will never work, humans have never done it. Even since we existed as Apes we had tribes, groups, family, rules. Our survival always depended on this. Even monarchy couldnt manage to hold all the power by themselves without having rules and giving stuff to others in order to keep their kingdoms.

There is other systems then what we use now, but they dont sit at the 4 corners of imagination land theorycrafting philosophy.

[Deleted]

Anarchy and capitalism negate each other. The base of anarchy theories is trust. Trust is build by autonomy and capitalism will corrupt autonomy. I can recommend to read the works of "p.m." like bolo'bolo or subcoma - afaik only available in German though.

[downnola]

Obligatory: https://m.imgur.com/gallery/TvEuE

[Theodarzna]

Ok then, whats your solution.

Actually curtailing the states involvement in communal life and returning power and autonomy to smaller regional forms or de-scaling society seems about up my alley. In a sense I wouldn't see the decline in the transactional relationship to be a bad thing.

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Obligatory: https://m.imgur.com/gallery/TvEuE

Some good stuff.

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AnarchoCapitalism, is an extreme, hence it has no chance to work in the real world. Each time you hit one of the four corners: Anarcho capitalism, Anarcho communism, fascism, totalitarianism. They all cant work. Anybody defending any of them is living inside their head like an idiot. You cant have no rules or All rules controlled by a single entity, its just not possible, its never been done, will never work, humans have never done it. Even since we existed as Apes we had tribes, groups, family, rules. Our survival always depended on this. Even monarchy couldnt manage to hold all the power by themselves without having rules and giving stuff to others in order to keep their kingdoms.

There is other systems then what we use now, but they dont sit at the 4 corners of imagination land theorycrafting philosophy.

My point is that the world AnCaps hope to create is not a world they would expect.

[Taso]

It's subjective.
According to this website http://capitalism.org/category/anarchism/
Ancaps are not really capitalist. Since anarchism does away with property protection I.e the government passes laws that ensure that property specifically private is protected without it anyone and everyone can claim that land and their would be no license or contract which a person has to abide too because their is no government to write laws and no federal police to ensure those laws.

[minteK917]

My point is that the world AnCaps hope to create is not a world they would expect.

Well yeah because anybody thinking these extreme could work positivelly does think well enough to anticipate the problems. A market with no rules doesent work, because even capitalism with rules proven that markets share eventually merge into the strongest player to remove all its competition hence maximize its capital gains. Which is why governments right now prevent monopolies to happen in most cases. Anarchy removes the laws of government meaning anarchy capitalism would infact not endure, eventualy monopolies would control markets and it wouldnt be anarchy anymore because someone is in control.