Varian Wrynn VS Grom Hellscream

[lazypeon100]

Sounds like the premise of a slash fiction.

There might even be a bard that plays some stereotypical porno music as grom / varian enters the other's tent.

[OIS]

There might even be a bard that plays some stereotypical porno music as grom / varian enters the other's tent.

My suggestion

[Jorah]

On Fel, rage seems to take over, preventing strategic thinking. That is a bad scenario when fighting someone like Varian.
I think it is akin to a boxing match where the bigger stronger guy swings wildly hoping for that single knockout punch.
I see Varian as the smarter fighter, willing to bide his time, wearing down his opponent piece by piece until it's time
to drop him. Varian Wins.

Something like this? ROFL

[Billy Idol]

Grom had much more combat experience plus the demon blood. Grom's fights - Gorian Empire, Arakkoa, Draenei and other natives species from Draenor. Then he was in the 1st war humans vs orcs, 2nd war tides of darkness. skirmish even when the humans had Internment camps, then the 3rd war (chaos war) he defeated cenarius and Mannoroth.
the xp of this guy is huge. Varian wins was only with the trio of Crimson Ring tournament (Valeera and broll)

[Deleted]

Grom pretty easy.

Orcs are in every way better warriors then humans.
In power, speed and rage.

Both are on top of there race but Orcs are far better warriors then Humans.

[Souflikar]

Something like this? ROFL

LOL...yep!!

[Friendlyimmolation]

Varian is a highly analytical. With Goldrinn's blessing Varian fight's with a supernatural speed and strength.
Grom is an extremely emotional berserker, with a very overconfident/arrogant attitude. His fel-blood empowers his already intimidating strength even further.

Varian would win by outmaneuvering Grommash.

another person who doesn't know that Grom didn't just scream and swing his ax

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On Fel, rage seems to take over, preventing strategic thinking. That is a bad scenario when fighting someone like Varian.
I think it is akin to a boxing match where the bigger stronger guy swings wildly hoping for that single knockout punch.
I see Varian as the smarter fighter, willing to bide his time, wearing down his opponent piece by piece until it's time
to drop him. Varian Wins.

Grom was able to think just fine when he fought after he drank the demon blood.

[AcidicSyn]

I think it would depend on the length of the fight either grom would win instaly with brute force or varian would win if the fight went longer then a few clashes.

This; it's a timed enrage fight for Grom; the longer the fight drags on, the more Varian will be able to read him and then get to work picking his defenses apart. A single slip up though and Varian becomes dirt cheese.

Main reason is because the OP said it's in an open field; Varian cannot use obstacles or terrain to his advantage in the scenario. The OP is almost giving Grom the advantage by making it a head on collision over, say; somewhere with some rocks Varian can use to effectively pillar hump while he looks for an opening.

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I'm not saying he was dumb though, I'm saying he wasn't smart.

What you're saying from the books I would say is more a part of being a naturally gifted fighter. He knows how to kill people, there's no question there. But he was also shown time and again to be far too rash, not exactly thinking things through before charging into combat. He got punished for exactly that in WCIII and still wasn't exactly understanding of why he and his clan were being made to collect wood rather than killing.

He could have called for a retreat in Ashenvale as well. Instead he drank demon's blood (learning later it was manneroth's IIRC) to simply overpower and overwhelm the night elves / cenarius.

It won them that battle, but in the long term doesn't exactly strike me as being wise or putting too much thought into how his actions can go horribly wrong.

I think the disconnect here is strategy/tactical prowess in combat vs warfare. Grommash was a very rash and hotblooded leader, in that he would command his forces to charge into many situations without considering all (or sometimes any) factors. This however doesn't really carry anything into the OP scenario though, I don't think anyone would disagree that if the scenario is a classic RTS 1v1 ladder match type of set up; Varian would win in nearly all categories. The solo combat prowess of Grommash Hellscream however, is an entirely separate matter, and certainly not one he was in any way lacking skill or intelligence in.


Side note; does anyone else know about those various youtube groups that make fan-fic fights (IE: super powered beatdown)? I really, really, wish we could see Varian vs. Grom built in one of those.

[EternalBany]

If you know the two characters well, even with Demon Blood, Grom wouldn't crush Varian. Not at all. Varian is an extremely strategist fighter and wouldn't let himself get crushed that easy. Not to mention that he is also extremely powerful and didn't kill Garrosh because he never had the opportunity to do so, if he had, he would, with honor. Something both Grom and Garrosh lack.

lol?
strategy on an open field with fel blood?

[Friendlyimmolation]

lol?
strategy on an open field with fel blood?

Man people just love repeating shit like this. Even with the Fel blood, Grom wasn't a stupid fighter.

[EternalBany]

Man people just love repeating shit like this. Even with the Fel blood, Grom wasn't a stupid fighter.

i meant, varian - the strategist - had no way to use his brain on an open field with fel infused grom on his ass

[Deleted]

lol?
strategy on an open field with fel blood?

Yes?
We're talking of Varian here, not a random Alliance Footman soldier. He is also skilled and strong, and yes, strategic.
Not to mention that Varian would have Goldrinn's blessing and his sword.

[Kralljin]

lol?
strategy on an open field with fel blood?

Orcs didn't just overcome the Draenei or Humans by throwing their numbers at them, sure some of them are stupid, but the leaders are usually there because they are smart enough to figure out shit and survive in an hostile enviroment, that didn't just vanish into thin air after the blood pact.

Orcs are skilled at warfare, especially close quarter combat.

Orcs are like a pack of wolves, they might not be the brightest, but they are damn good at what they honed over the years, be it hunting in a pack or waging wars.

Yes?
We're talking of Varian here, not a random Alliance Footman soldier. He is also skilled and strong, and yes, STRATEGIC.

And Grom has known warfare and direct combat since being a child, Varian faced war as well, but most certainly not in the same way as Grom did.

[Deleted]

i meant, varian - the strategist - had no way to use his brain on an open field with fel infused grom on his ass

You are underestimating Varian, like, a lot. But oh well

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Orcs didn't just overcome the Draenei or Humans by throwing their numbers at them, sure some of them are stupid, but the leaders are usually there because they are smart enough to figure out shit and survive in an hostile enviroment, that didn't just vanish into thin air after the blood pact.

Orcs are skilled at warfare, especially close quarter combat.

Orcs are like a pack of wolves, they might not be the brightest, but they are damn good at what they honed over the years, be it hunting in a pack or waging wars.

He meant that strategic fighting wouldn't help Varian against Fel Blooded Grom.

[Dagoth Ur]

Don't know why everyone think orcs fight like Scourge, mindlessly charging until they tire out.
This is not Lotr, orcs aren't morons in Warcraft.

They both have equal chance of outsmarting each other, Varian is not some genius comparing to Grom.
(That's just orcs are dumb stereotype you can't let go off)

[yetgdhfgh]

Some reason i thought this was a Garrosh v Varian thread damn i need glasses and a new brain

Also if this is old Grom then Old Grom would tear Varian apart!!

[Syegfryed]

Varian with the blessing of Goldrin could not win against a tired Garrosh, people rly think he could win against Grom with the demon blood? what the fuck, for real?

[Magnagarde]

What exactly makes Varian an unbeatable swordsman? How is fighting in a gladiator pit for years any better than fighting battles in human lands for years? If the Mannoroth kill for Grom can't be put over a Fel Reaver kill for Varian (lol), then the gladiator pit should not be put above skirmishes against the humans.

Not only are Orcs naturally stronger than Humans, being infused with Fel blood makes them nearly unstoppable. Which is why Cenarius and Mannoroth both failed to defeat Grom Hellscream. I don't see how Varian stands any chance at all fighting a Grom that is infused with Fel blood.

What you said basically puts an equation mark between the two; Grom spent a good part of life fighting humans, whereas Varian spent most of his fighting orcs. One headshots a pit lord(surprise element and situational awareness, not really a proper melee), the other headshots a fel reaver(surprise element and situational awareness, not really a proper melee). One had fel blood pumped into him, the other was Goldrinn's chosen.

[Vulnero]

Grom and Varian... i like both of them and they are probably the best warriors of their races. This is going to be a very rough battle and if we are talking about the original MU Grom, he will win in the end. It wont be an easy battle for Grom tho. Reasons are obvious:

- Grom is the most fearsome and skilled Orc warrior in the Horde history. He is god damn swift and powerful,
- As being the Chieftain of the Warsong Clan (most warlike clan of the Orcish clans), he faced and won countless Mak'goras probably,
- He is able to control bloodlust (source: Beyond the Dark Portal novel) and very cunning duelist,
- He knows humans very well after fighting them around 15-20 years and always defeated them even when outnumbered,
- He has Fel buff which makes him way too powerful and durable.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Depends.

If Varian splits Shalamayne and dual wields, Grom loses. A massive battleaxe is no match for the precision of two one-handed swords, especially with someone as strategic and experienced as Varian.

If Varian doesn't split Shalamayne, Grom overpowers him and ultimately wins.