Teacher Assaults Student For Not Standing During Pledge

[Deleted]

You Americans always make me scratch my head with threads like this...

[Machismo]

just stand up for the flag man.

don't make it about politics, do it out of respect for the people that have served and the people that have died for your right to talk shit on the internet.

or whatever else you people do.

oh OT: dont snatch the kid out of the chair man, just give the whole class extra homework on American history. bet he stands up tomorrow

Those people who served did so to protect that kid's right to sit down, and any reasonable veteran should be pissed that a teacher decided to grab a student and infringe on his First Amendment rights.

[Ghostpanther]

Fearing a vicious dog and fearing your parents are two very different things.

With regards to having respect for someone based on the fear of what might happen if you do not, is certainly the same thing. Lots of people every day of their lives, respect certain laws based on the knowledge of what may happen to them if they do not. Laws ( rules ) with no punishments involved for breaking them, are like a toothless dog.

[Machismo]

At 11 years old I'm hesitant to believe this kid even questioned the point of the Pledge of Allegiance without the strong influence of his parents - likely telling him to be defiant about doing it. Most kids that age just want to get it out if the way so they can sit back down and be done with it for the morning.

My kids schools in MA never did it, but the schools here in KS do it every morning. My girls just say it's annoying and that's it. There's no "don't tell me how to live my life" attitudes. When they get older maybe they'll put more thought into why they're really doing it, which is fine with me.

That aside, the teacher was in the wrong and probably shouldn't be teaching children.

In that case, good for the kid's parents. The Pledge is nothing more than brainwashing and political indoctrination.

My son was punished for not standing for the Pledge. He wasn't protesting, he simply felt tired, and was grumpy. The teacher kicked him out of class. I didn't find out for almost a month. I'm normally very passive person, especially towards anyone who has the guts to serve people like teachers and nurses do. However, I made it clear that if it happened again, I would ruin their fucking lives (I was a lot less cordial than they were used to).

[Ghostpanther]

Personally I gained respect from my kids through loving and nurturing them. Demanding respect through fear of strict punishment is generally perpetrated by bullying parents.

That is a good thing and certainly one of the best ways to deal with your kids. But not all kids will respond the same way without some attempt to defy a parent. You can have 2 kids bought up under the same parents and treated the same way and they may both react totally different. The wise parents will respond accordingly. Of course one should never beat their kids. I do not condone that. There are extremes to both spectrum's.

[Ghostpanther]

Eh, no. Living in fear of your parents strict regime is something that is inescapable for kids in such a household and something they live with every single day of their childhood. A vicious dog is something all of us may encounter at some point, but there are few who live with that threat on a daily basis, something that controls what they do and how they behave.

Personally I don't break the law because of the fear of inprisonment, I don't break the law because I see value in society in which I live.

I disagree. It is good you obey a law out of not having fear of punishment, but respect out of society. But if you agree with all the laws then you are a rare person indeed. There are many who obey the laws because of a knowledge of knowing what may happen if they do not. You can easily notice this in action by watching drivers slow down when they notice a policeman pulled aside of the road with a radar speed checker.

[Noradin]

just give the whole class extra homework on American history. bet he stands up tomorrow

So bullying to punish the kid for being right according to the constitution?
You must not think very much of the USA, why do you want kids to stand for its flag, again?

[Machismo]

I do believe it should be an option and never be forced by the school. I just don't think kids give a damn about "political indoctrination and brainwashing" at that age. They're likely just thinking about lunch and getting the day over with so they can go home. I'm not one to heavily influence my kids with my ideals unless it's called for, which I don't think it really does here. When they get older and really start putting more thought and consideration into such things, I'll definitely stand by their decisions and inform them the best I can.

That's exactly why people focus on children that age, because the kids don't think about it. Their brains are hardwired for learning at that age, so it makes them the ideal targets. I think most parents do heavily influence their kids with their ideals, and it can often be a good thing. What we are teaching them is the most important part. Personally, I focus on science and mathematics, because that's what I know. I also teach them critical thinking, and to always as "why" about absolutely everything. My wife teaches organization, artistic crap that I cannot grasp, and writing/computer skills.

Oddly enough, when I went to have the meeting with the school administration about my son getting kicked out of class for it, They tried to bring up the, "Why is he disrespecting veterans" card. That's when I informed them that both my wife and I are veterans, so that excuse was utter garbage. They thought they had the moral high ground... and it crumbled even worse from there.

[Noradin]

Fearing a vicious dog and fearing your parents are two very different things.

Or so one should hope.

[Kathandira]

I do believe it should be an option and never be forced by the school. I just don't think kids give a damn about "political indoctrination and brainwashing" at that age. They're likely just thinking about lunch and getting the day over with so they can go home. I'm not one to heavily influence my kids with my ideals unless it's called for, which I don't think it really does here. When they get older and really start putting more thought and consideration into such things, I'll definitely stand by their decisions and inform them the best I can.

For me, it was Highschool (14-18) when I started concerning myself with the Pledge. That is when I started picking it apart and being concerned with why we do this every single day from the age of 6 - 18.

[Noradin]

With regards to having respect for someone based on the fear of what might happen if you do not, is certainly the same thing. Lots of people every day of their lives, respect certain laws based on the knowledge of what may happen to them if they do not. Laws ( rules ) with no punishments involved for breaking them, are like a toothless dog.

If that was true then laws would be practically wothless.

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Personally I don't break the law because of the fear of inprisonment, I don't break the law because I see value in society in which I live.

And that is true for most people.

[Noradin]

I disagree. It is good you obey a law out of not having fear of punishment, but respect out of society. But if you agree with all the laws then you are a rare person indeed. There are many who obey the laws because of a knowledge of knowing what may happen if they do not. You can easily notice this in action by watching drivers slow down when they notice a policeman pulled aside of the road with a radar speed checker.

You do not have to agree with every single law if you follow them out of respect for the society that came up with them.

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For me, it was Highschool (14-18) when I started concerning myself with the Pledge. That is when I started picking it apart and being concerned with why we do this every single day from the age of 6 - 18.

Yes, and at that point most indoctrination is already done, because it works best with kids below that age. Because they do not question what they are taught.

[Ghostpanther]

You poor, indoctrinated Americans. I feel for you, I really do. Almost.

And instead of making a good point in the thread, you take the opportunity to bash a nation. Which is suppose to be against the forum rules.

[Kathandira]

Yes, and at that point most indoctrination is already done, because it works best with kids below that age. Because they do not question what they are taught.

Fortunately for me, that is around the time I really got into Punk and Hardcore music. So the brain washing was undone quite quickly. I never cared for the whole God thing in the pledge well before Highschool, but then the idea of pledging my allegiance became a concern to me once I hit Highschool.

Thank you Propaghandi for teaching me to question everything at a young age.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

And instead of making a good point in the thread, you take the opportunity to bash a nation. Which is suppose to be against the forum rules.

Yeah but it's against the United States, it'll fly under the radar. :3

[Kathandira]

And instead of making a good point in the thread, you take the opportunity to bash a nation. Which is suppose to be against the forum rules.

To be fair, we are basically the only first world country who makes our children pledge allegiance every day from the age of 6 - 18. So we kinda deserve it.

[Machismo]

It definitely should be told to the kids that's it's optional - let them decide. This story, to me, sounds like the parents were waiting for their opportunity to create drama, which is common. The kid probably didn't care either way, but the parents were likely chomping at the bit for such a thing to happen so they could run to social media and start the naming/shaming to gain their "supporters".

If I'm wrong and the kid honestly felt this way for himself, then I applaud his actions... but again, I really don't think that was the case here.

That may be true, the parents could be itching for controversy and drama with the school. On the flip side of that coin, nothing is going to get me more pissed off than someone fucking with my kid.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Fortunately for me, that is around the time I really got into Punk and Hardcore music. So the brain washing was undone quite quickly. I never cared for the whole God thing in the pledge well before Highschool, but then the idea of pledging my allegiance became a concern to me once I hit Highschool.

Thank you Propaghandi for teaching me to question everything at a young age.

Being a Jehova's Witness had me review and question everything. It was the reason I initially didn't pledge nor celebrate holidays. Then I realized, oddly, they were right. I didn't need to do these things and even more ironic, is how so many religiously devout people essentially worship false gods (such as the flag) and partook readily of pagan celebrations. It made me step back and reflect upon everything until ultimately, I believed in nothing anymore. It gave me my more rebellious edge. Funny that.

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I didn't bash a nation, though. I "bashed" all the Americans that are sadly indoctrinated as children and still don't realise it. That doesn't mean every single American or the country itself. But if you wanna whinge about it, I'm sure reciting the pledge will calm you down.

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Please see above.

It is bashing and quite frankly, every goddamn country suffers some form of indoctrination. Had a guy come over from Britain not long ago and all he could do was scoff at anything that wasn't British as if somehow his island was that damned special in comparison to the rest of the world.

[Ghostpanther]

I grew up in a fairly strict household with a bullying father, all this achieved was a kid with no confidence and low self esteem. When my teenage years came around I was the stereotypical teenage tearaway, I gave zero consideration to the consequences of my actions and wore it as a badge of honor.

When my kids came around I took a completely different approach and always tried to explain why such-and-such behaviour was problematic. It looks to have worked out well, with my kids now happy and prosperous adults.

Good story and one that is desirable to have. And yes, like I said, you can go to extremes when it comes to discipline. No parent should be bullying their kids. But you can be firm about the rules you have for your household and invoke punishment if those are broken by your kids. Does not mean you have to resort to physical punishment however. I never had to punish my two younger kids because of fear from them.

My oldest son, however, was acting defiant when he was like 3 or 4 and he found out quickly I was not going to tolerate that. Only had to do that once. Now he is one of the Deputy Directors of the Ohio Department of Transportation and holds 2 degrees. Never had issues while he was growing up with drugs or crimes. But once when he was very young, he had to be disciplined. Today I have a very good relationship with all my kids.

[Kathandira]

Being a Jehova's Witness had me review and question everything. It was the reason I initially didn't pledge nor celebrate holidays. Then I realized, oddly, they were right. I didn't need to do these things and even more ironic, is how so many religiously devout people essentially worship false gods (such as the flag) and partook readily of pagan celebrations. It made me step back and reflect upon everything until ultimately, I believed in nothing anymore. It gave me my more rebellious edge. Funny that.

I studied with Witnesses for two years. Good people. I learned a lot, and it really helped me view life more seriously. However, I still couldn't get down with the God aspect. It just didn't seem necessary to me to live my life. However the lessons I learned really helped me.