Will Trump forever be a stain in American history?

[Draco-Onis]

I agree. But the current form is as noted more concerned with profit, than actually helping people, so it is not surprising that a lot of people are turning against it.

I think it is possible to change it though, a shock to the system, like Trump, could possibly do that.

I think that Trump is more of the result of the corruption (citizens united) and a lot of lingering issues in the US not really the start of a global movement. If anything Trump has done the worse things for those against globalism, he's pretty much killed any momentum populism had worldwide.

[Glorious Leader]

I think that Trump is more of the result of the corruption (citizens united) and a lot of lingering issues in the US not really the start of a global movement. If anything Trump has done the worse things for those against globalism, he's pretty much killed any momentum populism had worldwide.

I dont think this is the case. Bernie sanders is still the most popular politician in america. If you mean right wing populism okay sure but even then these people seem to still be organizing at least within the context of the US.

[Taso]

Nope. Their will always be a good side and bad side to every president.
I could say obama made a stain in this country because of his terrible foreign policy. The fact he embarrassed us by trying to hug Raul Castro( why on earth would you do that) and then be lambasted by Fidel who said no American influence ,no American control. We will not fall to American imperialism. Then not say anything to defend yourself or your country. Or calling Isis a jr varsity team and waiting for two years before going out in a coalition.

[Draco-Onis]

I dont think this is the case. Bernie sanders is still the most popular politician in america. If you mean right wing populism okay sure but even then these people seem to still be organizing at least within the context of the US.

The verdict is still out on Bernie I honestly have lost all faith in the American public due to the Trump, I just don't see him winning any elections.

[PC2]

I agree. But the current form is as noted more concerned with profit, than actually helping people, so it is not surprising that a lot of people are turning against it.

I think it is possible to change it though, a shock to the system, like Trump, could possibly do that.

If you want the government to be able to help people then being concerned with profit is directly linked with the ability to help people. Most tax money available for social programs comes from profit(gross revenue - deductible expenses).

[Glorious Leader]

The verdict is still out on Bernie I honestly have lost all faith in the American public due to the Trump, I just don't see him winning any elections.

Bernie may not win any elections at any point in the near future but i suspect that would largely be due to systemic factors. Its not a very democratic country. When you poll the american people on bernies polciy concerns they are largely in agreement with him.

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If you want the government to be able to help people then being concerned with profit is directly linked with the ability to help people. Most taxes available for social programs comes from profit(gross revenue - deductible expenses).

Hardly. Concern for profit interferes with helping people as is evident in the dysfunctional health care system. Its actually not necessary to tax for any government spending. Witness afghanistan and iraq.

By and large governments should not be run as profit making schemes. Those institutions exist already. Theyre called businesses. It is inhumane and fundamentally stupid to commodify every aspect of civil society and subject all aspects of life to market forces. Human life demands more dignity.

[PC2]

Hardly. Concern for profit interferes with helping people as is evident in the dysfunctional health care system. Its actually not necessary to tax for any government spending. Witness afghanistan and iraq.

It's not necessary over the short term. Eventually the country would go bankrupt if it there was no taxes after borrowing.

[Draco-Onis]

Bernie may not win any elections at any point in the near future but i suspect that would largely be due to systemic factors. Its not a very democratic country. When you poll the american people on bernies polciy concerns they are largely in agreement with him.

That is true but you are talking about a public that hated Obamacare but loved everything in it when it was described as another program. They may agree with him but they are not motivated enough to vote for it especially when you throw in social issues like abortion, gay rights etc. I know people who would vote for the devil if he promised them to ban abortions that is the reality Bernie is facing.

[Theodarzna]

What do you suggest be done about it? I am sure you are aware that technology has made globalization pretty much guaranteed as the way forward. I understand the position of those against globalization but I have yet to hear good solutions. My point of view is that government in western countries need to facilitate better education to remain competitive not just against globalization but technology in general.

I think my main suggestion is we not pat these people on the back as if they were selfless heroes making the world a better place. More over the narrative of inevitability is a strangely magical way of thinking for people who tend to view themselves as secular rationalists.

[Glorious Leader]

It's not necessary over the short term. Eventually the country would go bankrupt if it there was no taxes after borrowing.

For the united states involuntarily bankruptcy is impossible. The US cannot go broke in a currency it issues by fiat with no peg. The worst that could happen is inflation.

[Theodarzna]

Unfortunately, a lot of human intent is driven by greed instead of actual altruism. The current form of Globalization has been greed driven, but sold to the population as an altruistic act.

For that, we should be rightly mad/upset.

That for me is the most infuriating aspect. I am supposed to call these wretched fucks heroes for sacrificing many largely to enrich themselves and incidentally trickle a sliver of a sliver of a sliver to someone else.

[Glorious Leader]

That is true but you are talking about a public that hated Obamacare but loved everything in it when it was described as another program. They may agree with him but they are not motivated enough to vote for it especially when you throw in social issues like abortion, gay rights etc. I know people who would vote for the devil if he promised them to ban abortions that is the reality Bernie is facing.

And thats what alot of them did when it came to trump. Social concerns rather than economic ones brought republicans in line to vote with trump. Having said that hillary still won the popular vote by a significant margin and she was a divisive choice to say the least.

[Theodarzna]

And thats what alot of them did when it came to trump. Social concerns rather than economic ones brought republicans in line to vote with trump. Having said that hillary still won the popular vote by a significant margin and she was a divisive choice to say the least.

That is a strange recollection because despite the CNN coverage, one of his signature issues was trade, and the states he won were from former Obama voters defecting.

[PC2]

For the united states involuntarily bankruptcy is impossible. The US cannot go broke in a currency it issues by fiat with no peg. The worst that could happen is inflation.

Yeah but the government is not going to go that route regardless of which political party has power. As undesirable as paying interest or austerity may be, the total implosion of financial trust and the geo-political risk of paying with hyperinflated currency would be intolerable.

[Glorious Leader]

Yeah but the government is not going to go that route regardless of which political party has power. As undesirable as paying interest or austerity may be, the total implosion of financial trust and the geo-political risk of paying with hyperinflated currency would be intolerable.

I said the worst that could happen is inflation which is not hyperinflation nor does it mean inflation is even guaranteed. Hyperinflation always and everywhere is a result of the collapse of th3 balance of payments. In zimbabwe for example it happened after mugabe gave the farm land to african farmers who didnt know how to farm. Zimbabwes economy is almost entirely agriculturak. The US has unused capacity, theirs slack in the economy. Room to grow before inflation and even then evidence suggests mild inflation is preferable to stagnation or deflation.

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That is a strange recollection because despite the CNN coverage, one of his signature issues was trade, and the states he won were from former Obama voters defecting.

Exit polling tells a different story. As for mr.obama, trump won those states because people stayed home not because some tiny minority of disaffected liberals had a pout and decided to run to their class enemy. The people who did that were such a fucking minority. Remember hillary lost a significant amount of turnout comparesd to mr obama.


Trump won on social issues. Republicans fell in line because they knew the importance of the supreme court seat for issues like gays and guns and race.

[PC2]

I said the worst that could happen is inflation which is not hyperinflatiom nor does it mean inflation is even guaranteed. The country has unused capacity, theirs slack in the economy. Room to grow before inflation and even then evidence suggests mild inflation is preferable to stagnation or deflation.

Okay so lets say you became the national leader that had no checks and balances, how would you suggest the economy and government is run from the current point?

[Theodarzna]

Exit polling tells a different story. As for mr.obama, trump won those states because people stayed home not because some tiny minority of disaffected liberals had a pout and decided to run to their class enemy. The people who did that were such a fucking minority. Remember hillary lost a significant amount of turnout comparesd to mr obama.

Considering Obama and Hillary's policy trajectory, was either of them an ally?

[Glorious Leader]

Okay so lets say you became the national leader that had no checks and balances, how would you suggest the economy and government is run from the current point?

The question should be what kind of country do we want to live in. Once we determine that then we can figure out how to allocate our real resources best to serve that end. The financing should never be an issue. Warren mosler says it best here.


https://youtu.be/wpG97hQrNKI

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Considering Obama and Hillary's policy trajectory, was either of them an ally?

Nobody likes a fucking neo liberal. That still isnt a good enough justification to vote a lunatic into office. Bernie and progressives are not in a better position with trump then they would be with some hypothetical clinton presidency. Its the difference between sitting at the dinner table and sitting at the kids table. Anyone who calls themselves a leftist or a progressive and voted for trump is a complete impotent sack of shit.

[Theodarzna]

Nobody likes a fucking neo liberal. That still isnt a good enough justification to vote a lunatic into office. Bernie and progressives are not in a better position with trump then they would be with some hypothetical clinton presidency. Its the difference between sitting at the dinner table and sitting at the kids table. Anyone who calls themselves a leftist or a progressive and voted for trump is a complete impotent sack of shit.

Well, I paraphrase Micheal Moore. "The Banks hate Trump, the Media Hates Trump, every institution that has worked in your ruin hates Trump and advocates for Hillary Clinton." Why would anyone trust someone backed by so many terrible institutions? Heck now you have Liberals acting as little Cold Warriors looking to drop boots on the ground in Moscow tomorrow.

[Glorious Leader]

Well, I paraphrase Micheal Moore. "The Banks hate Trump, the Media Hates Trump, every institution that has worked in your ruin hates Trump and advocates for Hillary Clinton." Why would anyone trust someone backed by so many terrible institutions? Heck now you have Liberals acting as little Cold Warriors looking to drop boots on the ground in Moscow tomorrow.

The banks love trump. Half of goldman sachs run the white house. This idea that trump was some outsider non establishment renegade is such a joke. He literally admitted to paying politicians. He was friends with the clintons hell he helped then buy their first home.

Again nobody likes the neo liberal we all get it. This is in no way shape or form a good reason to vote for trump or republicans in general. Incumbents won fucking hand over fist this electoral cycle. The idea that this was some populist revolt is bullshit as we.


Trump won because right wingers supported him in lock step (and the republicans) over social concerns. The average income of a trump voter was something like 70k. Not your blue collar shlubs and poor people.