Finland’s Welfare State Has a Massive Baby Problem

[Tennis]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-baby-problem

Finland, a first-rate place in which to be a mother, has registered the lowest number of newborns in nearly 150 years. The birth rate has been falling steadily since the start of the decade, and there's little to suggest a reversal in the trend.

Demographics are a concern across the developed world, of course. But they are particularly problematic for countries with a generous welfare state, since they endanger its long-term survival.

For Heidi Schauman, the statistics are "frightening."

"They show how fast our society is changing, and we don't have solutions ready to stop the development," the Aktia Bank chief economist said in a telephone interview in Helsinki. "We have a large public sector and the system needs taxpayers in the future."

To do that, the fertility rate should equal two per woman, Schauman says. It was projected at 1.57 in 2016, according to Statistics Finland.

That's a surprisingly low level, given the efforts made by the state to support parenthood.

Perhaps nothing illustrates those better than Finland's famous baby-boxes. Introduced in 1937, containers full of baby clothes and care products are delivered to expectant mothers, with the cardboard boxes doubling up as a makeshift cot. The idea behind the maternity packages was prompted by concerns over high infant mortality rates in low-income families. The starter kits were eventually extended to all families.

Offering generous parental leave and one of the best education system in the world doesn't seem to be working either. According to the OECD, Finland already has the lowest ratio of youths to the working-age population in the Nordics.

And it also has the highest rate of old-age dependency in the region.

The situation is only likely to get worse, according to OECD projections.

The European Commission says demographic factors are limiting Finland’s economic growth potential, which is estimated to peak at 1.9 percent in 2035 and flatten at 1.5 percent between 2050 and 2060.

What to do?

Reversing the modern idea that it's ok not to have kids is impracticable. Opening the doors to immigrants is a political no-go area (Prime Minister Juha Sipila's center-right government relies on the support of nationalist lawmakers). The leader of the opposition Social Democrats, Antti Rinne, caused a stir in August when he urged women to fulfill their patriotic duty and have more babies.

The government has been working with employers and trade unions to boost gender equality by making parental leave more flexible and the benefits system simpler. The reforms are expected to come into force in 2019.

Schauman believes that won't be enough.

"The discussion has revolved around gender equality and the employment of women, with the issue of natality sent to the background," she said. What Finland really needs is a political program that treasures the family and increases the value of parenthood, the economist argued.

The baby boxes that are delivered to expectant mothers contain all sorts of goodies. They include bodysuits, leggings, mittens, bra pads, talcum powder, lubricant, a hairbrush and a bath thermometer.

Well...at this point you really do need immigration to keep the welfare state going. Not much else you can do. Can't force Fins to have babies. Hopefully they do the right thing.

[Hallboi]

Oh pls, yes pls. I love massive babbies. How big is it. 40 tonne? 50 tonne?

Bigger babbies are always better.

[Techno-Druid]

There are ~7 Billion humans on Earth with the Earth lacking the resources to lavishly sustain every one of us.

If anything we should encourage this level of stabilization of birthrates and deathrates and decline. It's ultimately within the interest of our species, especially with the advent of automation that will make most low-skill jobs obsolete.

I would say that the developed nations of North America, Europe and East Asia turn their attention to uplifting the socio-economic status of the developing parts of the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Africa to lead them into this same direction.

[Independent voter]

Just set the retirement age at 80, that will fix it.

[Xandrigity]

I prefer a micro sized giraffe than a giant baby

[Deathpath]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...e-baby-problem

Well...at this point you really do need immigration to keep the welfare state going. Not much else you can do. Can't force Fins to have babies. Hopefully they do the right thing.

Except mass immigration would be a giant drain on Finland's welfare state. There isn't a whole lot of productive people willing to move to a new country just to prop up their failed welfare state, that only leaves low skilled and low educated immigrants coming to suck on the teat of the tax payer before the whole system collapses.

[I Push Buttons]

I would say that the developed nations of North America, Europe and East Asia turn their attention to uplifting the socio-economic status of the developing parts of the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Africa to lead them into this same direction.

They tried that...

Crybabies called it imperialism, accused the west of destroying indigenous culture, and made them to stop.

[Techno-Druid]

They tried that...

Crybabies called it imperialism, accused the west of destroying indigenous culture, and made them to stop.

I mean there's a pretty stark contrast between economic development and cultural exposure and directly annexing or exerting administrative control over another country.

[I Push Buttons]

I mean there's a pretty stark contrast between economic development and cultural exposure and directly annexing or exerting administrative control over another country.

Well just giving third world shit holes a lot of money and telling them to improve themselves doesn't really work...

See:
All of the third world shit holes that exist today.

[Deleted]

I think the common misconception of politicians of younger ones working for elder is outdated. Hell it never even made sense - who is calculated not by his own taxes? So next generation will deal with robots. No AI. AI that will take more than 10 years to understand and develop to administrate - welfare is the least problem.

The problem will be one single kind of profession that can create AI and their bodies to do all other professions.

How many of you can change mmo-champions appearance by some browser add-on and low CSS knowledge?

[Hallboi]

I prefer a micro sized giraffe than a giant baby

Friend, we live in a multiverse where you can have two things. A giant babby riding a micro sized giraffe through helsinki. Praise donald.

This things off the charts. It’s reaking havok in downtown Helsinki

Babby needs a nappy change, and moar helsinki.

[Tennis]

Except mass immigration would be a giant drain on Finland's welfare state. There isn't a whole lot of productive people willing to move to a new country just to prop up their failed welfare state, that only leaves low skilled and low educated immigrants coming to suck on the teat of the tax payer before the whole system collapses.

In the long term it is worth it. These young immigrants will reproduce at a higher rate and also will help bolster the welfare state. Otherwise guess what the pyramid will look like?

[Blur4stuff]

Most young people today have figured out that getting married and starting a family has an extraordinary cost both in money and the quality of life. There's a tremendous amount of risk with very little reward.

While some families are decent, most kids grew up seeing how miserable and/or broke their parents were only to later get divorced anyways. Millions of guys saw their dad get the life sapped out of him from paying alimony/child support. When they think about marrying a woman all they see is what their mom did to their dad.

They've come to the conclusion that it's a much safer bet to stay single and childless while spending most of their money on themselves.

[I Push Buttons]

Most young people today have figured out that getting married and starting a family has an extraordinary cost both in money and the quality of life. There's a tremendous amount of risk with very little reward.

While some families are decent, most kids grew up seeing how miserable and/or broke their parents were only to later get divorced anyways. Millions of guys saw their dad get the life sapped out of him from paying alimony/child support. When they think about marrying a woman all they see is what their mom did to their dad.

They've come to the conclusion that it's a much safer bet to stay single and childless while spending most of their money on themselves.

>implying young adults today have money

[Stormspark]

There are ~7 Billion humans on Earth with the Earth lacking the resources to lavishly sustain every one of us.

If anything we should encourage this level of stabilization of birthrates and deathrates and decline. It's ultimately within the interest of our species, especially with the advent of automation that will make most low-skill jobs obsolete.

I would say that the developed nations of North America, Europe and East Asia turn their attention to uplifting the socio-economic status of the developing parts of the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Africa to lead them into this same direction.

No kidding. Senseless breeding needs to stop.

[Torto]

Just do what the rest of Europe is doing and flood the joint with angry young Arab and African men. What could go wrong?

[Deleted]

>implying young adults today have money

Well how else would they be eating all their avocado toasts?

[Deleted]

In the long term it is worth it. These young immigrants will reproduce at a higher rate and also will help bolster the welfare state. Otherwise guess what the pyramid will look like?

Oh yeah, that's totally how it will go.
After losing a large portion of its population to wars, Hungary boosted its population with gypsy immigrants. This was in the 15th century. They still haven't managed to integrate and most of them are just a leech on society. They have more parasites among them than people who actually have an honest job.

The current Middle-Eastern/African immigrants are just going to make everything worse, expecting them to bolster the economy is extreme naivety. Even according to optimistic German statistics most of them are completely incapable of holding a job in Europe.

[ramjb]

If you allow women to exist without the support of a man (i.e. welfare/UBI or alimony in the USA), then they won't have babies. Tie a woman's survival and wellbeing to having a husband supporting her, then she has no choice but to fulfill her marital, spousal duties of providing him sex and children.

Governments, it's simple. Want your nation to survive? Depower women. Look at all the third-world nations like India, Somalia, Pakistan and our (Western Europe's) past history, when we had healthy birthrates. If you remove a woman's ability to work, inherit, financially support themselves and marry outside of arranged marriages, then they can focus less on working or fretting over a suitor and more on their primary function: carrying new life to term.

You know how indecisive women are. Their addled, small minds can't concentrate on more than one thing at a time without becoming frazzled and over-heated. Why else are cases of stress, depression and suicide skyrocketing in the west? Remove these hard decisions, have women focus on only one thing (child rearing), and our society will be much happier. I think Thomas Jefferson couldn't have said it more eloquently: "We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness." Preserve life, liberate our women from worries and give them happiness with a dedication to motherhood.


[Infracted]

[TheFuse]

I find it interesting how Tennis, a Canadian, is so interested in importing unwanted immigrants into other countries. Why don't we just leave the garbage in the bin and move on?