What the hell is happening with the video-game market?

[Chinese Bootlickers]

Normies happened.

[Linri]

most video games are still made by gamers for gamers... thankfully
but, when you throw the whole "we can make money off of this" why not? I mean it is a business after all...

i agree with the whole mods, and early access, these are just catering to the console crowd for the most part

i'm al so getting a little fed up like OP to some things they are doing, not to mention... THROWING at us.. I mean how many times can you honestly release Skyrim on different platforms, VR, Mods, legendary edition, with stuff... come on, most people mvoed on from that game after a few months.

[Jester Joe]

Honestly, I think a lot of negativity just comes from people hearing the same things repeated over and over, so eventually you start feeling burnt out by it too. But I'll give this a whirl.

[*]Full games are being torn apart to be released in small chunks;

This isn't really something we have proof of happening honestly. People love to claim the content would have been in the game otherwise (If you mean DLC), but really, the only game I can think of that makes it kinda clear the DLC was needed was Asura's Wrath, since the actual, true ending to the game was DLC. And that's unacceptable.

[*]Expansion Packs became small DLC content that costs just as much;

I don't see this happening that much honestly, any examples? Usually game companies are pretty upfront about what's going to be in a pack.

[*]Paid skins in free games became gambling microtransactions in PAID GAMES;

I've always been extremely indifferent about this, especially if the game allows for another way to obtain said skins still, and buying just means you might get them quicker.

[*]Don't even get me started in Season Passes (Paying for the "promise" of future content, that sometimes takes a long, long time to be released);

Never really bought Season Passes except Dark Souls 3, so not enough experience to chime in, but don't they usually at least give quarters that it will be released in?

[*]Triple-A games and companies going to Early Access;[*]EARLY FUCKING ACCESS;

Both of these go together really, but I don't see much of an issue with early access. The ability to do that alone is fine, and there are some companies who abuse that, yes. It doesn't change though that Early Access is basically just like beta testing, so if you have no interest in that, just skip it.

[*]Paying to participate in a Beta Game (Quake: Champions is an example of this);

That's basically going back to Early Access above. It's a bit iffy in my opinion for a Beta itself though because that usually means your progress will be erased.

[*]Lack of creativity in the triple-A department, leading to that "Deja vu"(I've already played this!) feeling in various games;

I haven't encountered this issue honestly. Maybe a few "hey that's similar to x", but not to the point of where it feels like Deja vu. Perhaps concentrating too much on a single type of game? I dunno. Diversity helps break up the similar feeling, it's why I'll go from playing like, Sonic Mania to Persona 5.

[*]Indie gaming suffering from a lot of problems as well (used to be a cool market, but greed is making it slowly degrade as well);

Indie games have always been hit or miss in general. It's just highlighted further by more people trying to get a slice of the pie since games like Undertale and co. hit so large.

[*]Kickstarter leading to a lot of failures and bad games;

An issue with the creators though, not kickstarter. There's tons of good that also came from Kickstarter, especially if you stretch out from just Video Games.

[*]Companies being shady as fuck (Warner Bros with the death of its employee;[*]Charging for MODS. MODS, for fuck sake.[*]Asset Flippers stealing games and assets to flood online stores with shitty games;

Yeah, no debating here lol

[GennGreymane]

Literally just 'money'.
Releasing a complete, polished and whole game only nets you the initial purchase amount at the cost of more dev/QA time to get it right.
On the other hand, releasing a semi-finished product faster means less overhead at first, give the initial burst of purchases (primary source), then piggy back on these 'updates', which are actually fixes to broken shit, then lock core components behind pay services (DLC, secondary source of income), toss in microtransactions for small-to-medium stuff (tertiary, volatile source of income) and you have a profitable model.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the mobile game market.
Some asshat created a throwaway game like Candy Crush, built in an arbitrary time-gate (number of tries or lives or whatever it is) with an optional purchase to get more, and you have a game that cost like $200 to make pulling in millions because people see $0.99 as 'no big deal', so they throw that $0.99 at it multiple times until an avalanche of cash drowns the developer, who might make more levels, should they feel so inclined.

If you want to blame something else, blame the internet.
Back in the good ol' offline console days, a game needed to be complete; there weren't any patches, updates, expansions, DLC, etc.
You had a cartridge with a chipset and it had everything you needed.
But back then, you would pay $70-$80 for one SNES game that might have offered 10 hours of gameplay, whereas now games are cheaper, they offer various levels of time-sink, and they offer optional stuff you don't need until it becomes too 'appealing', then you get roped into micros, then goodbye time and money.

It's a vicious cycle, but there's so much money to be had that a developer would be stupid not to utilize it.

If you ignore the bugs, glitches, cut content, etc, yeah complete.

[Jujudrood]

If you ignore the bugs, glitches, cut content, etc, yeah complete.

That was the trade-off was that if/when they made it through, tough shit.
I guess the argument was that they "tried harder" back then to polish a product because a bad release couldn't be saved with a patch.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

If you ignore the bugs, glitches, cut content, etc, yeah complete.

Eh, they did seem to be a lot more complete and operational out of the box.

But I do prefer the idea of course of being able to fix and update after the fact, just seems company use that as a green light to half-ass a lot of stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

Normies happened.

Lmao.

I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that some of the most hardcore gamers tend to be the biggest spenders of dumb shit. My younger brother for instance can't buy a damn game without getting the Collector's Edition. Even though he could probably split the difference and get much more cool collectibles off of eBay or in-store/online somewhere.

- - - Updated - - -

I really want to play all three rather than just the third. I have the first on PC, just need to put aside the time to play it and then the 2nd, then the 3rd. T_T

2 has the enhanced and 3 has the GotY now, so it'll happen eventually!

Yeah, Witcher 3 is awesome but I never did play the prior two. It's what made me officially go, "...Why the hell do I play Elder Scrolls or Fallout again?" Realized how much Bethesda likes to really minimize the effort put into their games. If they put half as much work and heart into their two RPG series, they'd be so much better. Instead they leave that up to mods which they're now trying to monetize.

[GennGreymane]

That was the trade-off was that if/when they made it through, tough shit.
I guess the argument was that they "tried harder" back then to polish a product because a bad release couldn't be saved with a patch.

someone needs to watch AVGN

[Chinese Bootlickers]

-Snib-



Lmao.

I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that some of the most hardcore gamers tend to be the biggest spenders of dumb shit. My younger brother for instance can't buy a damn game without getting the Collector's Edition. Even though he could probably split the difference and get much more cool collectibles off of eBay or in-store/online somewhere.

-Snab-

I guess I should have been more specific about "normies", since they're about as much of benefit as they are a detriment. I wasn't talking about the hardcore versus casual crowd, it was more on the influx of new people to the gaming scene it the starting years of the 7th gen kinda strangulating the existing base.
...
Fuck, that came out more like a conceited douchebag than it did in my head.
And yeah, hardcore players are prone to making stupid decisions with their money. I'm looking at you, guys that have sunk 4-5 digits in SC.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I guess I should have been more specific about "normies", since they're about as much of benefit as they are a detriment. I wasn't talking about the hardcore versus casual crowd, it was more on the influx of new people to the gaming scene it the starting years of the 7th gen kinda strangulating the existing base.
...
Fuck, that came out more like a conceited douchebag than it did in my head.
And yeah, hardcore players are prone to making stupid decisions with their money. I'm looking at you, guys that have sunk 4-5 digits in SC.

Yeah, I kind of get what you're saying. Like I don't think Overwatch would've been nearly as a big hit for instance if it was still just us "old timers" so to speak. All the new blood has created a very different market, one could argue, with different values no less. Hence why something as grotesque as purchasable loot boxes are now the bees-knees.

We need to just accept we're over-the-hill and retire. Play Poker and some other shit. Bingo maybe.

[Super Kami Dende]

I rarely have issue with those things, mostly because if I find a game has a bunch of shitty DLC type things, I just wait for a GotY edition and buy it for 1/10th the price off Key Resellers.

[Jester Joe]

Yeah, I kind of get what you're saying. Like I don't think Overwatch would've been nearly as a big hit for instance if it was still just us "old timers" so to speak. All the new blood has created a very different market, one could argue, with different values no less. Hence why something as grotesque as purchasable loot boxes are now the bees-knees.

We need to just accept we're over-the-hill and retire. Play Poker and some other shit. Bingo maybe.

I think it's just more confusing why people are letting something as small as cosmetic skins affect the actual gameplay.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I think it's just more confusing why people are letting something as small as cosmetic skins affect the actual gameplay.

Because they're still part of the game. It's a matter of principle. You don't take a purely multiplayer title in the first place, with scant content, charge 40-to-60 bucks and then shove all the unlockable, desirable content into a glorified system of gambling. Yes, you can attain them in-game. The problem is, the rate at which you gain versus actually getting the things you want. Particularly if you're a player limited on time.

It's shady at its best, abusive at its worst.

[Faroth]

We need to just accept we're over-the-hill and retire. Play Poker and some other shit. Bingo maybe.

Do what I did. Realize how many games you missed because you can't afford all that nonsense and go back and start collecting/playing old games.

6 left on my N64 list to hunt down.
Atari 2600 is getting whittled down and GameCube isn't far behind it.

Then the mountain of PS1, PS2, and SNES stands before me and let's not talk about the money sink that is Saturn now days.

[Jester Joe]

Because they're still part of the game. It's a matter of principle. You don't take a purely multiplayer title in the first place, with scant content, charge 40-to-60 bucks and then shove all the unlockable, desirable content into a glorified system of gambling. Yes, you can attain them in-game. The problem is, the rate at which you gain versus actually getting the things you want. Particularly if you're a player limited on time.

It's shady at its best, abusive at its worst.

Except you can save up and unlock those skins with currency in game from the duplicates you've been getting outside of the event. They also added ways to get loot boxes quicker, trimmed down the chance of getting duplicates, and have a built in bad luck protection.

I mean, maybe it's just my view, but if you're playing Overwatch as a Dress Up Game, rather than what it is, maybe that's the issue. I still think the whole rage, especially when it comes to Overwatch, is ridiculously over the top.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Except you can save up and unlock those skins with currency in game from the duplicates you've been getting outside of the event. They also added ways to get loot boxes quicker, trimmed down the chance of getting duplicates, and have a built in bad luck protection.

I mean, maybe it's just my view, but if you're playing Overwatch as a Dress Up Game, rather than what it is, maybe that's the issue. I still think the whole rage, especially when it comes to Overwatch, is ridiculously over the top.

Overwatch itself is at best, a twenty dollar game or an F2P title.

I'm tired of companies trying to have it all and it's this kind of apologetic shit that makes me tempted to quit playing games in their entirety.

[IIamaKing]

I blame the people who preorder months or a year out, I blame people who take part in EAs, I blame people who buy lock boxes, I blame ANYONE who buys a UBIsoft game on release(they are great at selling a MVP then selling you the rest of the game over the next 6 months). I stopped buying any game that has a season pass sale months before the game comes out.

I wish they would just go back to shipping full games and charge 80-90 bucks. as is they charge 60 for half a game a lot of the time. XPacks are the norm now, except they are selling content that should be in the base game. Ghost Recon shipped with NO PvP, like wtf for real? But they sold it for 20 bucks a few months down the line. There are some folks making proper games still Horizon ZD was proper, the Dark Souls guys ship proper games, aside from buggy launches Bethsaida ships feature complete games and sells proper Xpacks.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Do what I did. Realize how many games you missed because you can't afford all that nonsense and go back and start collecting/playing old games.

6 left on my N64 list to hunt down.
Atari 2600 is getting whittled down and GameCube isn't far behind it.

Then the mountain of PS1, PS2, and SNES stands before me and let's not talk about the money sink that is Saturn now days.

Honestly? I'm leaning towards stepping out of the hobby entirely. As much as I love games, they're becoming too expensive for too little and the worst part is all anyone seems to be able to do is make excuses for their shitty value propositions. It's getting too hard picking and choosing now that the market has become so saturated with absolute shit. All it's done is serve to frustrate and disappoint me.

Jt may have been hyperbolic and disingenuous with his argument in another thread but a part of me is almost at that point where I will end up resorting to these extreme absolutes if not take it a step further than that. Because people will continue to make excuses, apologize and it'll only get worse and worse from here on out as it's been doing for the past several years. Where does it stop? When does it stop?

The answer: Never.

[Jester Joe]

Overwatch itself is at best, a twenty dollar game or an F2P title.

I'm tired of companies trying to have it all and it's this kind of apologetic shit that makes me tempted to quit playing games in their entirety.

Absolutely not.

You really think with the amount of money they put into the game it's only worth $20? That's just horribly incorrect. Maybe you'd have a point if they didn't keep updating the game for free, but even then, no.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Absolutely not.

You really think with the amount of money they put into the game it's only worth $20? That's just horribly incorrect. Maybe you'd have a point if they didn't keep updating the game for free, but even then, no.

You're talking about something that is a common feature in larger game packages, coming in at a similar price as any other game. Take Battlefield. Take Call of Duty. Gut half if not more of their content out of the base package and then resell that at the original price and you've basically got the same equation.

No, I do not believe it warranted a 40-to-60 dollar price-tag particularly when married with the prospect of all the unlocks being buried within their gambling system, sorry. If everything that had been developed, upfront, came with that price-tag I might have been a little more accepting. Even if after the fact, they began to produce skins and knickknacks for purchase to sustain future development.

But instead, from what I can tell looking at this from a proposition of value... they took every advantage of the customer that they could without crossing a terrible threshold and that's what these companies are getting good at. Pushing that envelope just enough to stir a bit of enmity but ultimately getting away with it. Nudging us just a bit at a time towards shittier and shittier practices that gives you less and them more.

[Jester Joe]

You're talking about something that is a common feature in larger game packages, coming in at a similar price as any other game.

No, I do not believe it warranted a 40-to-60 dollar price-tag when married with the prospect of all the unlocks being buried within their gambling system, sorry. If everything that had been developed, upfront, came with that tag I might have been a little more accepting. Even if after the fact, they began to produce skins and knickknacks for purchase to sustain future development.

Name a single game that doesn't have a cash shop that also gets free support after launch. I'll wait on that. Or hell, if it's so common, name several. Show how "common" this is.

And that is exactly what the cosmetics do, they sustain future development. Why does it really matter to you if the base game came with no cosmetics? (which, by the way, only the $40 version doesn't, the $60 ones all come with several Origins skins, and now also 10 loot boxes).

You're getting mad/bashing a game for doing exactly what is needed to sustain the game in the long run, while admitting they need something to sustain the game.