Trumpcare Back From Dead Again: Cassidy-Graham Cruelest Version Yet, Has 49 Votes

[Poopymonster]

If we stop letting companies dictate prices, get this fuckdiculous health care costs under control, how much would it drop? That 92K referred to above is by current overpriced standards. Drop costs, that 92K drops. Until we that under control, we're fucked in the US.

[Vyuvarax]

If we stop letting companies dictate prices, get this fuckdiculous health care costs under control, how much would it drop? That 92K referred to above is by current overpriced standards. Drop costs, that 92K drops. Until we that under control, we're fucked in the US.

Which is actually why insurance companies are viewed so unfavorably by healthcare advocates. It's not that they unduly increase cost by serving as a pointless middleman; most of the damage the insurance industry does is by enabling healthcare providers to inflate costs without the consumer's knowledge.

[Breccia]

Which is actually why insurance companies are viewed so unfavorably by healthcare advocates.

It should be noted, both insurance companies and also doctor/hospital groups hate this bill. The fact that these two groups, opposed to each other as they might be, both hate this bill, should be saying something.

However, the current indications are that it will pass the Senate. McCain has talked with the AZ governor, who is for the bill, and will therefore probably vote yes. Murkowski and Collins are hesitant and have expressed concerns, but they could go either way. Only Rand Paul has said no. 50 "yes" votes is looking increasingly likely. And the far right groups in the House seem on board as well.

I'm just glad I'm union at this point. I know how good my medical benefits are. I know how difficult it can be to either not have care at all, or to have it cost so much that it's out of reach. All those people saying "I hope it passes just to wreck the GOP" well, I think you're going to see that happen.

[Toogoodman]

C'mon man, don't just arbitrarily cut off the list.

21 Libya 31.90%
22 Antigua and Barbuda 31.00%
23 Lebanon 30.80%
24 New Zealand 30.60%
25 Canada 30.10%
26 Australia 29.90%
27 United Kingdom 29.80%
28 Turkey 29.40%
29 Czech Republic 29.10%

(Source)

A ~16% increase in the obesity rate of Canada/UK isn't going to bankrupt us. 30% to 35% just isn't that big of a jump. Yes, it would be far better if said jump wasn't there, but this isn't some astronomical hike.

Sorry, just got back to my office. I will include additional factors in now to show how poor health management can make a society suffer.

An estimated 160 million Americans are either obese or overweight. Nearly three-quarters of American men and more than 60% of women are obese or overweight. These are also major challenges for America’s children – nearly 30% of boys and girls under age 20 are either obese or overweight, up from 19% in 1980.

Source: http://www.healthdata.org/news-relea...-problem-among

I am not saying other countries are perfect, but this is a serious issue, and can have a serious impact on a single payer system moving forward. This needs to be addressed, and should be address before we move forward with a plan, or else costs will become egregious. I understand that people are "entitled to their big gulps" but Jesus Christ show some moderation. I'm not some crazy vegan here telling people they need to live a "whole food diet", but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take care of ourselves. What signals does this send to the rest of the world? people are starving in our own country, yet a majority of our population feels they need 6 full meals a day? I get it, junk food tastes pretty good, but for us to move together as a society, especially on something like healthcare, we should all really be considering the costs of frankly, unhealthy dietary practices. It is absolutely a problem when the average size of a female in the US is a size 16, and the average waist size for men is a size 40; i'm 6'6" and my waist size is 36....

On the subject of healthcare costs though, the costs are absolutely ridiculous, but there are so many factors that determine those prices. You have to look at medical RnD, cost of facilities, cost of staff, cost of school for staff, drug patent costs, regulatory costs, lawyer and medical malpractice insurance, cost of tier 1 service... etc.

I would love a single payer system, we pay way too much at the current status quo, but we seriously need to at why our life spans are shorter, why are infant mortality rate is so high, why our costs are so high.... the easiest thing to fix is obesity, you cant tell people to not get cancer, however showing people a better life style is something we need to instill into the next generations. I'm not saying "no junk food", but maybe we should have 2-3k calories a day instead of 5-8k, maybe watch your carb intake, watch how much candy you have... etc.

[Shkar]

Sorry, just got back to my office. I will include additional factors in now to show how poor health management can make a society suffer.

An estimated 160 million Americans are either obese or overweight. Nearly three-quarters of American men and more than 60% of women are obese or overweight. These are also major challenges for America’s children – nearly 30% of boys and girls under age 20 are either obese or overweight, up from 19% in 1980.

Source: http://www.healthdata.org/news-relea...-problem-among

I am not saying other countries are perfect, but this is a serious issue, and can have a serious impact on a single payer system moving forward. This needs to be addressed, and should be address before we move forward with a plan, or else costs will become egregious. I understand that people are "entitled to their big gulps" but Jesus Christ show some moderation. I'm not some crazy vegan here telling people they need to live a "whole food diet", but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take care of ourselves. What signals does this send to the rest of the world? people are starving in our own country, yet a majority of our population feels they need 6 full meals a day? I get it, junk food tastes pretty good, but for us to move together as a society, especially on something like healthcare, we should all really be considering the costs of frankly, unhealthy dietary practices. It is absolutely a problem when the average size of a female in the US is a size 16, and the average waist size for men is a size 40; i'm 6'6" and my waist size is 36....

On the subject of healthcare costs though, the costs are absolutely ridiculous, but there are so many factors that determine those prices. You have to look at medical RnD, cost of facilities, cost of staff, cost of school for staff, drug patent costs, regulatory costs, lawyer and medical malpractice insurance, cost of tier 1 service... etc.

I would love a single payer system, we pay way too much at the current status quo, but we seriously need to at why our life spans are shorter, why are infant mortality rate is so high, why our costs are so high.... the easiest thing to fix is obesity, you cant tell people to not get cancer, however showing people a better life style is something we need to instill into the next generations. I'm not saying "no junk food", but maybe we should have 2-3k calories a day instead of 5-8k, maybe watch your carb intake, watch how much candy you have... etc.

Yes, people should take better care of themselves, but one thing that would seriously help address many of those problems is cheaper healthcare. How many health issues go ignored until it's too late because treatment is so expensive? There are so many issues out there that are cheaper to fix if caught early, or that become impossible to fix if caught late. If people aren't worried about not being able to afford it, they are more likely to take their kid in when they have a cough that won't go away, or when they start to get a chronic pain.

Granted, healthcare has other problems as well. Doctor's and med students are highly suicidal, for instance. The complicated web of insurance providers/plans and all the differences and paperwork involved adds a ton of time that could be reclaimed. The amount of misinformed and outright harmful advice on topics like diet, exercise, and vaccines is another. Heck, the way pharmaceutical companies make profits off of production instead of invention is a huge deal in my opinion. We could manufacture drugs for WAY cheaper, but getting a patent guarantees a monopoly. This works fine for other markets, but is insane for medicine. Separate the two; pay them for inventing the drug or subsidize the cost, but let competition drive down prices of the good.

A big part of the reason costs are so high is that so many people can't pay for it. The hospitals know that a ton of people aren't going to pay their bills, so they jack up their prices to get what they can from the people who will pay. If payment was guaranteed, they wouldn't have to do that. They might still try, but single-payer would lead to a stronger bargaining position regardless.


These are all massive problems in my eyes. And if you want to talk about how we can address these in positive ways, I'm absolutely game. If you are worried about the side-effects of a massive, sudden change to the system, that is a valid concern, and we can talk about a staged plan. I don't think it's accurate to say these are dealbreakers though.

[Healing Rain]

Singlepayer would be insanely expensive(everyone who pays taxes would find their taxes go up, and even those who don't pay taxes would find themselves paying taxes), would put everyone's healthcare into the hands of bureaucrats who only think of people as statistics, and would be 100% unconstitutional.

Repealing Obamacare and letting the free market replace it is what should happen.

[Edge-]

Singlepayer would be insanely expensive(everyone who pays taxes would find their taxes go up, and even those who don't pay taxes would find themselves paying taxes), would put everyone's healthcare into the hands of bureaucrats who only think of people as statistics, and would be 100% unconstitutional.

Repealing Obamacare and letting the free market replace it is what should happen.

I know you probably don't care, but FYI single payer would just mean that the government handles payment, it wouldn't deliver care. They'd just be paying your doctors now rather than the insurance companies paying.

[Matchles]

Singlepayer would be insanely expensive(everyone who pays taxes would find their taxes go up, and even those who don't pay taxes would find themselves paying taxes), would put everyone's healthcare into the hands of bureaucrats who only think of people as statistics, and would be 100% unconstitutional.

Repealing Obamacare and letting the free market replace it is what should happen.

If you actually believed a word of this you should be welcoming a public option with open arms. Prove that government run insurance is worse than private for-profit insurance by putting them opposite each other and letting the consumer decide. Problem with your take is the government run insurance we already have is overwhelmingly approved by those on it.

[DarkTZeratul]

A big part of the reason costs are so high is that so many people can't pay for it. The hospitals know that a ton of people aren't going to pay their bills, so they jack up their prices to get what they can from the people who will pay. If payment was guaranteed, they wouldn't have to do that. They might still try, but single-payer would lead to a stronger bargaining position regardless.

The other half of that is that insurance companies want to say they're giving their customers massive discounts, so in order to allow them to do so the hospitals just set their base prices absurdly high.

[Shkar]

The other half of that is that insurance companies want to say they're giving their customers massive discounts, so in order to allow them to do so the hospitals just set their base prices absurdly high.

I hadn't heard that part, but I can imagine. I've long felt that universities do the same thing, so it's not really surprising. Point is, the whole thing could use drastic simplification.

[Edge-]

http://www.businessinsider.com/graha...ki-vote-2017-9

In which the GOP tries to buy off Murkowski while fucking every other state.

[primalmatter]

So long as healthcare is privatised anything trying to fix it is simple window dressing.

[Fugus]

Singlepayer would be insanely expensive(everyone who pays taxes would find their taxes go up, and even those who don't pay taxes would find themselves paying taxes), would put everyone's healthcare into the hands of bureaucrats who only think of people as statistics, and would be 100% unconstitutional.

Repealing Obamacare and letting the free market replace it is what should happen.

And you know that Prius is just too expensive, it would bankrupt you, horrible gas mileage, breaks down all the time and expensive to repair. You should stick to that H2 Hummer of yours, sure it is only firing on 2 cylinders, all 4 rims are warped, has a bent frame and is more rust than car but it is just more efficient and cheaper than that Prius. That Prius would bankrupt you and rape your dog and your wife in your sleep. Better to stick with what you got.......

[Matchles]

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...amacare-repeal

A 60-year-old making $25,000 per year in Alaska would have to pay as much as $31,790 more per year, and in Arizona, the person would have to pay $22,074 more, according to the AARP study.

I'm no mathematician, but it seems like increasing a senior's premiums by 125% of their entire income is probably unsustainable.

[Edge-]

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...amacare-repeal

I'm no mathematician, but it seems like increasing a senior's premiums by 125% of their entire income is probably unsustainable.

So...are these the "death panels" that Republicans were warning us about?

[Glnger]

So...are these the "death panels" that Republicans were warning us about?

more like death lottery
they could get whats his face Dirty Harry to make adverts

[Blur4stuff]

taxes will go up

This is exactly what republicans will chant over and over again as I expected. We just have to keep reminding people that with single payer taxes would go up, but most people and families would have more money each year because of reduced costs on their end for healthcare related services and items.

Medicare isn't the VA either. Keep seeing confused anti-single payer folks confusing the two.

[Pendulous]

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...amacare-repeal



I'm no mathematician, but it seems like increasing a senior's premiums by 125% of their entire income is probably unsustainable.

My yearly income is around 20k, and people wonder why I don't have any kind of insurance.

[Kujako]

My yearly income is around 20k, and people wonder why I don't have any kind of insurance.

Guessing you're in a state that refused to expand medicaid. No one's fault but your governor.

[Pendulous]

Guessing you're in a state that refused to expand medicaid. No one's fault but your governor.

Psh. Our state produces only the best people, like Jeff Sessions III and Roy "use taxpayer money to cover up an affair" Bentley.

Please kill me.