The EU Suppressed a 300-Page Study That Found Piracy Doesn’t Harm Sales

[Arkthugal]

Obviously...

If they didn't pirate it they wouldn't buy it anyways.

This is true. But it also works another way: after pirating it, they might decide they like it enough to buy it anyway, which is an increase in sales.

There are a lot of musicians that encourage pirating their music, simply because it means more listeners than they'd get otherwise, and more listeners means more potential buyers.

[Deleted]

http://www.indiewire.com/2013/09/how...-sequel-34956/

I mean, this is just a singular example, but it would be ridiculous to think it's the only one.

[Deleted]

While the argument that pirates wouldn't buy it and would just not consume it at all is true, making piracy an accepted behavior, normalizing it so the average consumer thinks it's fine, would impact sales.

It's a matter of how few people pirate vs how many would if it were considered acceptable.

Bullshit. There are countries were pirating isn't illegal. And they aren't pirating more movies than countries where it is.

[Themius]

So enforce a one year copyright? To protect games and movies that are hits?

I can't believe Game of Thrones profits weren't hurt by having 80 million illegal downloads.

It is hurt by not allowing people to buy the series beforehand. For instance I wanted to buy it before hand and just view the episodes as they came out however they don’t allow you to do that while every other channel typically does. That’s hbos vault.

[oplawlz]

So enforce a one year copyright? To protect games and movies that are hits?

I can't believe Game of Thrones profits weren't hurt by having 80 million illegal downloads.

HBO made some really poor decisions about the availability of that series. If you make something that people want, then don't allow them to have it legally - yeah, they're gonna find a way. Specifically speaking of digital goods and media, that is.

It's not at all the same as physical theft, as much as intellectually dishonest people try to make it sound so. When you take someones cookie, they no longer have that cookie. When you watch hello kitty gangbang xtreme on animustreamers.com no one else loses it.

[Phookah]

That's a fair point to consider. I've heard music on websites that I assume was pirated which led me ot buy the artist's full album based on hearing one song.

Still, if 25% of gamers decided that pirated games are okay, it's crazy to think that wouldn't impact the industry. It's like saying shoplifting doesn't have any impact on a store.

Yeah the logic behind peoples thinking is faulty.

"People getting stuff they'd normally have to pay for for free instead doesn't affect sales"

Uh yeah, okay. Try selling lemonade across the street from someone who steals it from you when you aren't looking and then gives it away for free. Hey, maybe people will try it and like it so much they come over and buy it from you now instead!

"Well a lot of the time people will get to try something they wouldn't have spent money on in the first place, and then that'll make them want to spend money on past/future products from said company!"

I'm sure that happens once in a while, but I'm willing to bet its outclassed pretty heavily by the number of people who download something, try it and like it and decide "Wow! This book/movie/music/game was amazing, better download the rest of it!"

Piracy is stealing. You can try and justify it anyway you want if it makes you sleep better, but it is what it is. This is coming from someone who's pirated stuff themselves (in this day and age who hasn't? Not many people).

[GreenJesus]

I'm never going to watch game of thrones because I refuse to pay HBO for ANOTHER subscription. One time I tried watching it "other ways" and my computer got a virus. So.. whatever. I am 100% sure I would love the show, but fuck HBO.

[Endus]

It's not at all the same as physical theft, as much as intellectually dishonest people try to make it sound so. When you take someones cookie, they no longer have that cookie. When you watch hello kitty gangbang xtreme on animustreamers.com no one else loses it.

It's worse than that, even. What they're claiming was "stolen" was the purchase/rental/whatever price for the item in question, which is something they weren't ever going to get. You don't get people who would buy something who download a copy for free instead. If they were going to buy it, they'd buy it. Instead, people pirate stuff they wouldn't have paid for. Either because they can't afford it, or because they don't want to financially support it, or whatever.

So it's not actually a loss of sales, at any real number. And whatever sales might be lost are offset by those who pirate it, and enjoy it enough to either buy it or buy other stuff by the same folks.

You also have convenience. Like, I have on-demand play from my cable service, but shows sometimes don't hit on-demand for a day or two after they air. If I planned ahead, I could have recorded them, but I forgot. So I might stream the show instead; the stream's usually up within a half-hour of the first airing being over. Honestly, it's fucking weird that people with legal access to content can often get better access via streaming/downloading from illicit sources. These companies are throwing in too many barriers, and that's pushing people away. Hoping that services like Netflix start to push things a bit too; a big factor in all this is commercials. Netflix doesn't have 'em. Neither do illegal streams. But if I watch an on-demand title on cable, they force me to watch commercials and won't allow me to skip them, even. That encourages me to not use on-demand. Treating your customers like shit isn't good for encouraging good customer behaviour.

[Phookah]

Seems the Golden Rule is lost on people these days.

I know personally myself that if I made some music or a film or a game and wanted to make money or a possible living from it that I wouldn't want some twats stealing my hard work.

It's really that simple, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If your choices don't fit into that ideology, then the problem is most likely you.

[Deleted]

do unto others as you would have them do unto you

That's a good rule to live by. I, for example, wouldn't mind the least bit if people consumed a product I made without paying me, if they were never going to pay me for it in the first place. They get to enjoy something they would never have paid for, and I get to feel good about making a product for someone else. And, hell, perhaps if they liked the product, they'll actually support me later on thanks to getting the product for free at first.

This is actually the mindset and mentality of pretty much anyone who makes mods for free, or develops open source software.

[araine]

I understand how stupid it sounds, but most media creators consider every pirated (downloaded) version is a potential sold copy. Yes, million of downloads they consider a million lost purchases.

Yeah, no surprise that they're supperssing stuff like that.

But everyone knows it doesnt work like this in real life, which is why the results of the study is so damaging for the media mafia. It totally destroys the narrative they have painted up so it is so dangerous to the 1% elite in Brussels that take bribes from the media mafia. We should be glad we have a few that havnt been bought by the greed. It is these few that we need to build on to save the world from the GREED.

Like Ebba Gron sings in the famous B side The government and the capitalist side by side they help each other. true back in 1980 when it got released and true today and the main reason we the people cant have nice things

[IIamaKing]

I don't know anyone who doesn't pirate.

Thats called a bubble, pirating is a very niche activity.

[Endus]

Seems the Golden Rule is lost on people these days.

I know personally myself that if I made some music or a film or a game and wanted to make money or a possible living from it that I wouldn't want some twats stealing my hard work.

It's really that simple, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If your choices don't fit into that ideology, then the problem is most likely you.

One of my hobbies is writing. I'd love to make a living at it. But I'd rather make a living at it by having a huge audience of fans, rather than charging as much as I can per unit, even if a lot of those fans got access to my stuff for free. Heck, if I'm making more than like $40k/year at it, I'd consider everything else gravy at that point. And I only use that number as a "I'm living fairly comfortably off this" mark.

[IIamaKing]

I'm not gonna pay for a whole set of legally binding, 1 year long, TV subscriptions with tons of garbage inside only to watch GoT or some other series.
.

Good thing you can pay 15 bucks for one month of NOW and watch all of seasons 1-7.

[LMuhlen]

I have mix feelings towards piracy. I make a rule of never paying for pirate products. That just crosses the line for me. Of course I can't control ads revenue and stuff from piracy sites, but I'm not really paying anything.

I think that piracy would have a more significant role on sales if the idea of piracy not damaging companies was completely replaced by piracy is ok. So I see why they would hesitate to release the report. Still not justifiable enough, transparency should have prevailed.

I like going to the movies, but I'll get pirate copies 100 times before seeing a dubbed movie. Screw dubbed movies. I see pirating movies as a legitimate protest against movie theaters which don't show movies with subtitles.

[Sama-81]

Yeah the logic behind peoples thinking is faulty.

"People getting stuff they'd normally have to pay for for free instead doesn't affect sales"

Uh yeah, okay. Try selling lemonade across the street from someone who steals it from you when you aren't looking and then gives it away for free. Hey, maybe people will try it and like it so much they come over and buy it from you now instead!

Whether or not your stance has merit, how you portray your argument is pretty hilarious. I mean, considers other people's logic faulty, and immediately begins to use an example of a finite material product being stolen, with piracy - that's top notch irony, it really is.

[oplawlz]

It's worse than that, even. What they're claiming was "stolen" was the purchase/rental/whatever price for the item in question, which is something they weren't ever going to get. You don't get people who would buy something who download a copy for free instead. If they were going to buy it, they'd buy it. Instead, people pirate stuff they wouldn't have paid for. Either because they can't afford it, or because they don't want to financially support it, or whatever.

So it's not actually a loss of sales, at any real number. And whatever sales might be lost are offset by those who pirate it, and enjoy it enough to either buy it or buy other stuff by the same folks.

You also have convenience. Like, I have on-demand play from my cable service, but shows sometimes don't hit on-demand for a day or two after they air. If I planned ahead, I could have recorded them, but I forgot. So I might stream the show instead; the stream's usually up within a half-hour of the first airing being over. Honestly, it's fucking weird that people with legal access to content can often get better access via streaming/downloading from illicit sources. These companies are throwing in too many barriers, and that's pushing people away. Hoping that services like Netflix start to push things a bit too; a big factor in all this is commercials. Netflix doesn't have 'em. Neither do illegal streams. But if I watch an on-demand title on cable, they force me to watch commercials and won't allow me to skip them, even. That encourages me to not use on-demand. Treating your customers like shit isn't good for encouraging good customer behaviour.

Yup. Similar issue with game developers and DRM. While most have figured out that inconveniencing paying players is a bad idea, some (looking at you, ubisoft) still don't understand what a problem it is to have a better version of the game available illegally.

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Good thing you can pay 15 bucks for one month of NOW and watch all of seasons 1-7.

That is a recent development, and the piracy of GoT dropped significantly since it was added.

[Deleted]

Thats called a bubble, pirating is a very niche activity.

Someone should tell that to the production companies and everyone who keeps yelling about how "piracy" is ruining the movie, TV, music and game industries. Clearly it can't be even making a visible dent, being a very niche activity. Although, you do mean filesharing of course, I'm guessing, not piracy. There is actual product piracy in the world, but filesharing is not it.

[Faroth]

Whether or not your stance has merit, how you portray your argument is pretty hilarious. I mean, considers other people's logic faulty, and immediately begins to use an example of a finite material product being stolen, with piracy - that's top notch irony, it really is.

Go ask an artist at any convention if you can take high quality photos of their artwork piece by piece. It's just a digital copy, they still keep the physical ones. Let me know how many are happy to see you showing such appreciation for their work.

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Someone should tell that to the production companies and everyone who keeps yelling about how "piracy" is ruining the movie, TV, music and game industries. Clearly it can't be even making a visible dent, being a very niche activity. Although, you do mean filesharing of course, I'm guessing, not piracy. There is actual product piracy in the world, but filesharing is not it.

What definition of piracy are you using, because "the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work" is a dictionary definition, so I want to understand the distinction you're making.

[Deleted]

What definition of piracy are you using, because "the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work" is a dictionary definition, so I want to understand the distinction you're making.

I mean, of course it is, and it is so because of people misusing the term for so long that it has become common vernacular. That, or the RIAAs and MPAAs of the world have pushed the dictionary people to have that definition in there. That would just be a guess, seeing as though money talks, but I'm probably way off there.

In any case, long before there was an internet, in places like China (just as an example), there were pirate copies of, for example, movies and albums being sold. There were pirate copies of brand clothing and electronics being sold, too. However, the operative word here is sold. A copy of an original work is made, and then sold, for profit. This, much like actual piracy, is when a third party is actually taking away profits (the loot, the plunder) from the person or company who originally made the product. In a case such as this, you can actually show that the person buying the pirate product would actually pay for the product, since that's what they're actually doing. Someone else making money by selling the other person's or company's product, or the pirate copy thereof, that's piracy.

Filesharing, or warez, is data being shared among people freely. No loss of profit can actually be shown (although to protect the production companies, in a court of law, it's always assumed, to the fullest, of course), and in the vast majority of cases doesn't exist, because as said several times in the thread before, people who get a warez copy of a movie, TV show, album or game would not have paid for it in the first place, either because said product isn't worth it's price, or because they can't afford it. That's filesharing, that's warez. That's not piracy.

But sure, let's go by the dictionary definition. I'm fine with that, too. You'd have to remember, though, that it's in the interest of those parties to label and brand this all as "piracy", seeing as though the word "piracy" has negative connotations from hundreds of years ago, whilst "filesharing" sounds very nice and positive. Sharing, you know. Positive. Can't call it that. Let's rebrand it.