Mafia 92: Time Travel Trouble

[Graeham]

You all know my reasons.

I don't.

As far as I can recall you haven't actually done a whole lot during this game beyond point at me and say I'm scum. You haven't even tried to engage me directly - others have, even if they've been skeptical. You also haven't put forward even a subtle claim, let alone a full one. Whilst - again - others have.

The timing of your vote back on D1 was also rather bizarre. I believe it happened just as enough of us had finally banded together to decide on an actual lynch after a considerable amount of discussion. Why did you feel as though multiple people would then rush at the end of the day to follow your lead and lynch me? If you're scum, then it can only be some sort of desperate ploy in my eyes to try and get rid of a role that is going to cause you a considerable headache.

[Deleted]

I'm kinda stuck at the same conclusion as you, Largehorn, namely that we're at a Graeham v Marack situation, and one of them is pretty likely scum. I'm just slightly more likely to trust Graeham here.

I still think we really need to hear from both Marack regarding Graeham's question (which should tell us if he's got their full role or just half of it) and Blood fox regarding what he did last night (cause I assume he did something)

[dupti]

I feel pretty good about my vote actually.

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@Largehorn, I'd really like you to explain your d1 scum read on Graeham.

The way I see it, your scumread on him is/was based on nothing but his role claim, which is a rather interesting read to have given it is a weird setup, he confirmed several roles and also responded very well to questions. Do you disagree?

I understand why'd you be suspicious of him, I think his role is pretty questionable as well, but I do not think his play has been scummy at all. The fact that you voted on him when the majority had already accepted (including Crissi herself) that Crissi was going to be the lynch and the way you phrased it (can't go along with this plan), seemed to imply you could not accept a lynch on Crissi, not because you thought Crissi was town, but because you were so certain Graeham was scum.

A read that I have a very hard time believing town would have at that point, although that obviously depends on the player. It's however not something I'd expect from town Largehorn, I do not think you as town would have such a strong scum read on him at that point simply based on his roleclaim. So to me it feels more like you were indirectly fishing for town credit (lynch on Crissi) and trying to set up a lynch on Graeham for later. As I've already said I thought your interactions felt a bit weird, so I thought either you were just trying to set up for a mislynch or you were bussing to distance yourself from a teammate. While I do still think it is a possibility that you could be scummates I do think it is a bit unlikely given you were the first one to respond to his claim.

Other than that I also disliked how you were the only player to ignore the list, as in you didn't claim whether your role were on the list or not until I asked you, even though everyone else was claiming. Perhaps it is nothing, but I can't help but feel you just did not want to commit to a claim yet.

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@PistolPink, several players are trying to push a Marack vs Graeham today, including yourself, and I thought it was rather interesting how you chose to comment on everything that happened (including me kind of calling out Blood Fox), yet decided to ignore my push on Largehorn. Why? What's your read on me and Largehorn?

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oh and more thing before I leave, @Largehorn what do you think about the fact that the majority seems to be pushing for Marack/Graeham?

I mean if one of them is scum and we assume they have scumbuddies, could you explain what their partners are doing? Sure, it's WIFOM so just give me your best guess.
I am providing an alternative lynch, yet several players keep pushing for Marack vs Graeham and ignore my push on you.

Do you think Val and Graeham are scumbuddies?

[Blood Fox]

I'm kinda stuck at the same conclusion as you, Largehorn, namely that we're at a Graeham v Marack situation, and one of them is pretty likely scum. I'm just slightly more likely to trust Graeham here.

I still think we really need to hear from both Marack regarding Graeham's question (which should tell us if he's got their full role or just half of it) and Blood fox regarding what he did last night (cause I assume he did something)

I very much did something and it was very much meaningless much like my role in general

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(including me kind of calling out Blood Fox)

Lol where? dont take credit for something you didnt do

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also i know this whole marack vs. graeham is interesting, but do you know what is more intresting?

that fact that I haven't lied about anything so far. thats impressive for me.

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also graeham will be conveniently role blocked from now on watch

marack also suddenly seems mad about gaehams ability.

is there really a scum between the two? probably the slowness of this train also leads me to believe one of them is skum. also val is their skum buddy but that is just a side note.

[dupti]

In #230? The part pistol quoted. i also fail to see what credit id gain from that anyway, bai

[Blood Fox]

@PistolPink
oh yeah and there are no VT, everyone did something last night.

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oh sorry im a moron,

yeah I got nothing worth even typing. My watching is super generic and weak my results mean nothing. I basically rolled VT but Danner didn't want VTs so he gave me an "ability of no consequence except under extreme circumstances

[dupti]

Ah so that's what your role does. Hm. Well, I'm really off this time, i have no idea when the deadline is or if its close, won't be online much from now on

[Blood Fox]

cake points obviously.

[dupti]

I believe that claim though

[Graeham]

Ah so that's what your role does. Hm. Well, I'm really off this time, i have no idea when the deadline is or if its close, won't be online much from now on

The deadline is in roughly 15 hours and 30 minutes as of this post.

[Largehorn]

I'd really like you to explain your d1 scum read on Graeham.

The way I see it, your scumread on him is/was based on nothing but his role claim, which is a rather interesting read to have given it is a weird setup, he confirmed several roles and also responded very well to questions. Do you disagree?

You have all asked me to explain this time and time again. Read my posts.

I'll just start here...

So you've got information on 9 possible roles AND can reverse a death or lynch.

Yeah I don't think I can believe all of that to be true. Even if Val seemingly confirmed it.

It's not an "interesting" read. You all just want to believe him. I'm sorry I'm the vocal one calling this shit out. Every one of you that is "suspicious" of me have been like "I find this supsicious", yet the lot of you has yet to tell me why/how I'm wrong. Despite my attempts to actually talk this out with any of you. It's just back to "Large is scummy because he thinks Graeham isn't town".

I understand why'd you be suspicious of him, I think his role is pretty questionable as well, but I do not think his play has been scummy at all. The fact that you voted on him when the majority had already accepted (including Crissi herself) that Crissi was going to be the lynch and the way you phrased it (can't go along with this plan), seemed to imply you could not accept a lynch on Crissi, not because you thought Crissi was town, but because you were so certain Graeham was scum.

And I stand by my vote. There was nothing town aligned about what happened Day 1 from ANY of you. The lot of you just blindly followed someone who "knew" other's roles and could "bring" her back.

yeah, Im here.

I cant stand games with 3-4 day long day games. SO boring and i have better stuff to do.

yeha, not exactly town play, but thats how I feel. I am town, but its whatever. I dont trust the sudden shift since its pretty apparant Im an easy target though

Also, ya know, while Graeham can bring me back, that auto means I'll be killed N2 since Id be confirmed town anyways.

She sure as hell wasn't on "board" with "the plan". And why was she picked anyway? Apparently just because. Need I remind you:

I think it's also important that we can't really lynch anyone to validate it either other than Graeham.

And yet we lynched someone else. The only way we know Graeham is actually telling the truth is if he ends up dead somehow. And I doubt he's going to be night killed.

A read that I have a very hard time believing town would have at that point, although that obviously depends on the player. It's however not something I'd expect from town Largehorn, I do not think you as town would have such a strong scum read on him at that point simply based on his roleclaim.

What the hell does that even mean? I don't blindly follow a TPR that sounds that powerful. It comes from sitting by and watching multiple of the games I've modded be made silly because you all just believed the claimed OP TPR. Need I remind anyone of Lora's Punisher bullshit?

And despite there being a lie in place from either Marack or Graeham, you don't seem to want to address that. Why is that? Why is the potential for Graeham to be lying something you just keep wanting to hand wave away?

So to me it feels more like you were indirectly fishing for town credit (lynch on Crissi) and trying to set up a lynch on Graeham for later. As I've already said I thought your interactions felt a bit weird, so I thought either you were just trying to set up for a mislynch or you were bussing to distance yourself from a teammate. While I do still think it is a possibility that you could be scummates I do think it is a bit unlikely given you were the first one to respond to his claim.

Listen to this hedging! I'm the only one who's taken a stand on anything this game despite knowing it wasn't going to be popular. And that makes me scum?

Other than that I also disliked how you were the only player to ignore the list, as in you didn't claim whether your role were on the list or not until I asked you, even though everyone else was claiming. Perhaps it is nothing, but I can't help but feel you just did not want to commit to a claim yet.

Why on earth would I claim anything without being asked about it first? Who the hell thought it would be okay to Mass Claim on D1? Look where that got us... Two dead town. One of them could quite possibly have been our only protection role and the rest of you blindly trusting some one who very well could have been just caught in a lie.

oh and more thing before I leave, @Largehorn what do you think about the fact that the majority seems to be pushing for Marack/Graeham?

I mean if one of them is scum and we assume they have scumbuddies, could you explain what their partners are doing? Sure, it's WIFOM so just give me your best guess.

Well at this point, I can only assume that the two of them (I believe there's only three scum see earlier posts) are trying really hard to keep Graeham around. A very large number of town seems to want to follow him which means you (being scum not you as in Dupti) control both the lynch and your Night kill. And since your (this is you as in Dupti) push is the only one that won't prove definitely if Graeham is telling the truth... and the only other person with you right now is Val...

But I think despite the silliness from you (because that's what this has to be right? Silliness?), you are actually trying to do something. I think that's a very strong play. But what was Val's very next post? A quick vote on me. Did he talk with me about any of the things I responded to today? Nope. Funny that and yet you ask...

Do you think Val and Graeham are scumbuddies?

No, your blind faith in one of the most powerful sounding roles to grace MMO is nonsensical. I'm sorry despite the evidence there is no way I can accept that Graeham is telling the truth. But thanks for using your power to save your scum buddy and out yourself.

I appreciate that.
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And I don't think Val is going to look very good when Graeham flips scum either.

I will give them this, Val's use of his ability to save Graeham for a night managed to kill two town, but I think they are about to trade themselves in.

But you've been seemingly ignoring my posts when I actually answer you if it doesn't fit your agenda. So there you go. Yes. If Graeham is scum, Val is almost certainly his scum buddy. I'd really like to think that you aren't simply because you (then as a team) have commited really hard to this play and I can't believe a player like yourself would go along with that.

I am providing an alternative lynch, yet several players keep pushing for Marack vs Graeham and ignore my push on you.

I would like to think that's because everyone else has realized that maybe Graeham isn't telling the truth or that the only way to know for sure is to actually validate it by lynching. More so now that Marack has claimed he's a liar. But to be honest, it could be anything.

[Deleted]

several players are trying to push a Marack vs Graeham today, including yourself, and I thought it was rather interesting how you chose to comment on everything that happened (including me kind of calling out Blood Fox), yet decided to ignore my push on Largehorn. Why? What's your read on me and Largehorn?

I wouldn't really say that we are the ones pushing a Marack v Graeham scenario, it's more that that is what appeared when day started. Marack claims that Graeham is lying. Graeham counters by saying he is not, which insinuates that Marack is lying. As town, one certain clue as to who scum are is that lying tends to be a part of their MO. Town doesn't lie, or rather, town only tells white lies, and town definitely doesn't tell lies that implicate other townies. Ergo, one of the two must be scum. Unless someone has misunderstood something. Which is why I am waiting for Marack's reply with bated breath.

Regarding your push on Largehorn, that's pretty simple. I'm not seeing what you're seeing. I disagree with him voting on Graeham, but not his reasoning behind the vote. I also believe he was wary of Graeham's role before he cast his final vote, which makes it less odd. Another reason for me ignoring the whole ordeal is that I'm reading both of you as town-leaning. The fact that Val has voted for Largehorn pushes him into more trusted territory than you, because Val is someone I don't trust at all. Why do I not trust Val? Call it intuition. Call it not liking his role very much. Call it not liking him buddying up to Graeham.

I very much did something and it was very much meaningless much like my role in general

also graeham will be conveniently role blocked from now on watch

Euh, I figured. Would've been too easy if you actually got a result.

Also, you will conveniently not get a result ever. Cause, y'know, your role is weak and essentially a glorified VT. You're not making this any easier for me. At least you've taken a position on the Marack v Graeham situation, so that's something. On #TeamGraeham.

oh yeah and there are no VT, everyone did something last night.

Well, duh. And I think better wording for that would be: everyone COULD do something last night. Doesn't mean they necessarily used their actions.

[Blood Fox]

do you really want to know my results? i guess it dosnt matter.

"ahem"
SOMEONE did performed an action on N1

[Graeham]

@Largehorn

I don't understand why you aren't really engaging me directly if you're so suspicious of me. You're not alone in voicing concerns about my role - others have done exactly the same thing throughout the game from the moment I claimed. So it feels unfair to make it seem like you're the only one taking a stand. This also isn't a regular game. We all signed up knowing it would be experimental and potentially 'bastard' in its design.

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To elaborate, it feels like you're talking around me rather than at me. Is anyone else getting that impression or am I just reading into things poorly?

[Deleted]

Actually, Graeham, Danner promised that the game wouldn't be bastardized. Experimental and insane, sure, but not bastardized. Meaning no lying to players.

[Graeham]

Actually, Graeham, Danner promised that the game wouldn't be bastardized. Experimental and insane, sure, but not bastardized. Meaning no lying to players.

Oh, that's good to know!

[Crackleslap]

I'm kinda in agreement with Pistol here. Much better at articulating what my thoughts are. The lynch should be between Marack and or Graeham. I understand the wifom clause, but playing whole game based on wifom makes me want to lynch myself. :/

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do you really want to know my results? i guess it dosnt matter.

"ahem"
SOMEONE did performed an action on N1

It's as if you almost said nothing at all.

[Anakso]

If I'm reading Bloods hints, he's a watcher that sees if someone visited but not who.

I'm honestly torn between Graeham and Marack at the moment, either could be lying. Graehams storys been told the longest which I guess is why people are leaning trusting him, Marack though I don't see why he'd lie out of the blue if scum.

[Marack]

Ive been out of town all weekend celebrating the girlfriend's birthday. Between my wow raid and before I goto bed, Ill look back through the thread and answer the questions posed to me.

[Graeham]

I'm off to bed. I should be back before the deadline. Hopefully.