Varian Wrynn VS Grom Hellscream

[omeomorfismo]

varian need the gravity to kill a fel reaver.
grom trepassed a spear and a shield to oneshot a pit lord.

then varian can have all the stamina he wants, but his buff is only usefull only with attrition fights like against hordes of low skilled soldiers or someone of his power level. grom is simply better

[Friendlyimmolation]

Not to mention Danath Trollbane vs. Kilrogg Deadeye.

Killrogg was old as fuck IIRC tho.

[Wildmoon]

varian need the gravity to kill a fel reaver.
grom trepassed a spear and a shield to oneshot a pit lord.

then varian can have all the stamina he wants, but his buff is only usefull only with attrition fights like against hordes of low skilled soldiers or someone of his power level. grom is simply better

The fel reaver was much much bigger than a pit lord though. Varian was not as dumb as Mannoroth to let his guard down. He was also not as big of a target.

[Deleted]

Genji wins, mada mada.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Depends on which wow lore you go with (since the game at this stage has so many retcons and contradictions). There was only one human that matched the strength of a orc Grunt, that being Lothar. I would imagine Garry was stronger than a grunt. Then there is Gorehowl, which was (again, supposedly) imbued with the hearts of Gronns giving the weilder the strength of said Gronns. Or something.

I would still pick Varion, but thats because I am going with brains over brawn

And again, Grom wasn't a dumb brute. He fought just as intelligently as Varian.

[Zabatakis]

And again, Grom wasn't a dumb brute. He fought just as intelligently as Varian.

Truly tho? I know he wasn't a moron but I thought he just fought with exceptional instincts/reflexes. A smart fighter to me comes up with actual plans. But I Admit to not reading any of the recent books so I would not know.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Truly tho? I know he wasn't a moron but I thought he just fought with exceptional instincts/reflexes. A smart fighter to me comes up with actual plans. But I Admit to not reading any of the recent books so I would not know.

He was just like Varian. Both change fighting styles mid combat. And Grom stopped himself from giving into the blood lust, (even after drinking the blood) mid combat to make sure he wouldn't die.

[Zabatakis]

In that case then I would give Grom the edge, if that ax makes him as strong as claimed, and with the fel blood too, Varion would not be allowed to block or he would just get cleaved through. Shalamaladingdong and Goldrin blessings are nice, but not lift a tower nice.

[Jorah]

Turyalon beat Doomhammer, Varian beat Garrosh in Wolfheart.

Plus Danath beat Kilrogg on Draenor.

Killrogg was old as fuck IIRC tho.

Danath also not young boy ROFL. To be honest i expected Danath to show up in WoD and see rematch between them.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Plus Danath beat Kilrogg on Draenor.



Danath also not young boy ROFL. To be honest i expected Danath to show up in WoD and see rematch between them.

Kilrogg was walking stick old is what I mean. IIRC

[Kralljin]

I know! And yet Orcs needed overwhelming numbers to defeat small number of small humans. Even during first and second wars, Orcs couldn't win a straight battle without swarming their enemy.

So what?

The average Orc isn't the brightest candle, especially under the effects of the bloodlust, i think that is something we can agree on.

TO give real life example, there is a video of a huge Russian weightlifter getting beaten to death by a small MMA fighter. With bare knuckles and all.

Problem is that Grom isn't the average Orc, the Orcs survived on Draenor because their Chieftains didn't sent their forces into every battle without any sort of strategy.

Nor did they remain Chieftain because of their heritage, every Orc chieftain that showed weakness had no shortage of challengers for a Mak'gora, by that any Orc Chieftain also remained skilled at 1v1 combat.

This is an instinct even Grom didn't overcome.
It is terrible instinct against a clever and nimble opponent.

Grom managed to beat back the Night elves until Cenarius showed up.

And Night elves are a lot more nimble than a Human in Full Plate, be it Varian or not.

Otherwise Ogres would have completed destroyed Orcs in Draenor.

I think the Orcs also fought against more nimble opponents, such as the Arakkoa or simply other Orc Clans.

Like seriously, Orcs fought often in duels for shit & giggles, in an enviroment where Ogres and Gronns are common enemies, Orcs probably were nimble enough by themselves, hence they were no strangers to "nimble" opponents.

And i dare to say that an Orc that only wears some shoulder pads and a few pieces of armor is more agile than a Human in full Plate.

[Clone]

Grom man. Grom killed Mannoroth and Cenarius, Varian has done nothing close to it.

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Varian is both a gladiator with a lot of strength and a veteran warrior with a lot of experience.

Grommash is a very strong orc. But not a particularly clever one.

In a fair fight, I'd say Varian would outsmart Grommash.

It's like you don't know the lore.

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varian need the gravity to kill a fel reaver.
grom trepassed a spear and a shield to oneshot a pit lord.

Pretty much this. And when Grommash killed Mannoroth, he actually circumvented gravity to do so.

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I know! And yet Orcs needed overwhelming numbers to defeat small number of small humans. Even during first and second wars, Orcs couldn't win a straight battle without swarming their enemy.

This is false. All books describe orcs as being able to take on 2 to 3 humans alone.

TO give real life example, there is a video of a huge Russian weightlifter getting beaten to death by a small MMA fighter. With bare knuckles and all.

This is false too. Being big and ripped doesn't mean knowing how to fight. Orcs are big and ripped, and grow up in a warrior culture. They know how to fight on top of being big and ripped.

[Jorah]

This is false too. Being big and ripped doesn't mean knowing how to fight. Orcs are big and ripped, and grow up in a warrior culture. They know how to fight on top of being big and ripped.

Some side information. When orcs first time entered Azeroth they were steamrolled by Stormwind cavalry that had fewer numbers. And their main progress was due to overwhelmed numbers. What says at that time average human was more skilled warrior than average orc.

[Dagoth Ur]

Some side information. When orcs first time entered Azeroth they were steamrolled by Stormwind cavalry that had fewer numbers. And their main progress was due to overwhelmed numbers. What says at that time average human was more skilled warrior than average orc.

First and Second war doesn't really go into Alliance's favor imo however you turn it around.

Both Stormwind and Lorderon would've been wiped out if not for Gul'dan's betrayal.

Orgrim defeated 1v1 one of the greatest Alliance warrior of all time there and potentially Grom is even better fighter than Orgrim.

[Clone]

Some side information. When orcs first time entered Azeroth they were steamrolled by Stormwind cavalry that had fewer numbers. And their main progress was due to overwhelmed numbers. What says at that time average human was more skilled warrior than average orc.

It says that mounted soldiers have an advantage over foot soldiers. It also says that people fighting on their home turf knows the layout of the land more. You are still ignoring that orcs have always been described as superior warriors with superior physique.

[omeomorfismo]

The fel reaver was much much bigger than a pit lord though. Varian was not as dumb as Mannoroth to let his guard down. He was also not as big of a target.

mannoroth didnt let his guard down, grom destroyed his spear used to parry, shield and belly in a single blow.
and bigger=easier to hit. even more if the felreaver was grabbing the flying machine. still varian didnt oneshotted but needed an additional lunge to kill.

simply varian dont have the strenght of grom, meanwhile grommash has a lot more experience that isnt even comparable. a life in war both in draenor (environment, ogres, mak'roga, other clans) and azeroth against some years of being a gladiator, onyxia, skirmishes with horde and war in northrend/soo.

finally varian can be "tiny" but he still need to be melee being in fullplate. if grom can easily destroy demonic plates think what he can do with human's armor.

[Deleted]

Varian without Goldie hax vs Grom? Grommash wins with eyes closed. Grom might be weaker than his son, but he is still a capable warrior.

[Jorah]

First and Second war doesn't really go into Alliance's favor imo however you turn it around.

Both Stormwind and Lorderon would've been wiped out if not for Gul'dan's betrayal.

Orgrim defeated 1v1 one of the greatest Alliance warrior of all time there and potentially Grom is even better fighter than Orgrim.

Like i said orcs had more number. Plus dragons, warlocks from Shadow Council, trolls.

Besides before retcon Lothar was ambushed and zerged. Blizzard retconed their duel because it was unhonorable for orcs...

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Varian without Goldie hax vs Grom? Grommash wins with eyes closed. Grom might be weaker than his son, but he is still a capable warrior.

Why people always overpowering Goldrinn blessing? Its only gives him stamina. Without it Varian still have swordsmanship, speed, reflexes and tactical skill.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Grom hellscream wins with high difficulty.

[epLe]

Lol, Varian got bested first by some random level <20 defias npcs, then by some random orc.

Grom would decimate him without breaking a sweat.