Marksmanship T21 4 Set Bonus

[Crzypck]

Hey guys, looks like they just buffed the t21 4p on PTR. As it stands now, it grants Marked Shot a 30% chance to shoot a second time, on up to 3 targets. Has anyone starting looking into Sims using Zevrims and different talent builds to maximize MS usage? Really curious how that is going to work out. Meme build making a comeback?

I would try doing this myself, but I'm simply not very experienced using raw SIMC outside of the tools on Raidbots, and they don't have any PTR support I can find.

[Deleted]

Marked Shot is roughly 7-8% of our total damage and simply used to start your vulnerable window. A 30% proc chance to fire an additional time is not going to make any build centered around Marked Shot viable. Considering how strong T20 4p is, we're probably going to be running T20 4p/T21 2p.

[Tehterokkar]

We won't be running 4pc T20. Blizzard will make sure of it.

[Einsz]

We won't be running 4pc T20. Blizzard will make sure of it.

I remember people saying that when someone posted concerns about 4p2p mix combos, oh boy...those people were so wrong, not to mention trinket clownfiesta this tier with barely any hunters using current tier ones

[Crzypck]

Marked Shot is roughly 7-8% of our total damage and simply used to start your vulnerable window. A 30% proc chance to fire an additional time is not going to make any build centered around Marked Shot viable. Considering how strong T20 4p is, we're probably going to be running T20 4p/T21 2p.

That's kind of my point though. With the new 4p, I'm curious as to how a talent build of say Patient Sniper and Piercing Shot, using Zevrims and Huntmaster, and using a Marked Shot- focused rotation instead of the current Aimed Shot rotation would work. I just don't know how to run a sim on that. I don't expect at all that the bonus is good by itself using the current basic rotation.

[Deleted]

We won't be running 4pc T20. Blizzard will make sure of it.

We heard that about CoF, Arcano and T19 as well. So far we don't have historical data to assume a T20 nerf prior to Antorus, nor do we have a planned nerf on the PTR. We can safely assume we'll be wearing T20 4p for some time as MM, especially if you have high TF pieces.

[nidosarg]

We won't be running 4pc T20. Blizzard will make sure of it.

Yeah sure tell that to BM hunters still using 2 t19 905, simming better than 940 off parts.

[Azzkikr]

Its still rubbish and the same goes for the 2p t21 (only decent for SW builds).

Unless they buff marked shot damage by alot and/or revert patient sniper back to its 7.0 state then no one will be going for the 4p t21. The secondary stats on most of the pieces are awful as well.

I have really no idea what they are thinking with these tier bonuses.

[Tehterokkar]

I remember people saying that when someone posted concerns about 4p2p mix combos, oh boy...those people were so wrong, not to mention trinket clownfiesta this tier with barely any hunters using current tier ones

And how many are using 4pc of T19 currently? Nobody. Because they were nerfed for specs which had insane 4pc bonuses. 4pc for MM in Nighthold was already pretty lackluster. BM 4pc was really insane due to the synergy of 2pc and Owtp/Stomp.

It will happen again where Blizzard will nerf at least 4pc bonuses so that people use their new tiers unless they have 950 on all 4 slots.

- - - Updated - - -

We heard that about CoF, Arcano and T19 as well. So far we don't have historical data to assume a T20 nerf prior to Antorus, nor do we have a planned nerf on the PTR. We can safely assume we'll be wearing T20 4p for some time as MM, especially if you have high TF pieces.

No historical data? You must have missed the T19 tier nerfs. Specifically the 4pc bonus nerfs. While MM didn't get nerfed, as it wasn't a good one anyway, BM did get its 4pc T19 butchered. And MM didn't care anyway as their T20 was really insane(even after the "day 1 hotifx" nerfs).

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah sure tell that to BM hunters still using 2 t19 905, simming better than 940 off parts.

4pc =/= 2pc. With 2pc of old tier you can still use 4pc of new tier. Other way around is not possible. Either way Blizzard wants you to use 4pc of new tier.

[Emerald Archer]

I remember people saying that when someone posted concerns about 4p2p mix combos, oh boy...those people were so wrong, not to mention trinket clownfiesta this tier with barely any hunters using current tier ones

We heard that about CoF, Arcano and T19 as well. So far we don't have historical data to assume a T20 nerf prior to Antorus, nor do we have a planned nerf on the PTR. We can safely assume we'll be wearing T20 4p for some time as MM, especially if you have high TF pieces.

Yeah sure tell that to BM hunters still using 2 t19 905, simming better than 940 off parts.

Big difference between having to wear a 2pc rather than a 4pc from a previous tier. Nerfs will come through, 2pcs might be worth still, but 4 items, losing you 40-120ilvls worth of gear, is extremely rarely worth it.

2pcs still being worth is incomparable to 4pcs.

[Tehterokkar]

Also, many missed it(including me), but a guy on Warrior forum posted about it..... CoF was nerfed in last build



No idea if proc chance is changed since it changes based on the spec you are playing(so don't look at that for now).

[Agallion]

We won't be running 4pc T20. Blizzard will make sure of it.

Yet here we are with BM still running 2P T19.

[Zenfoldor]

Yet here we are with BM still running 2P T19.

Big difference between running an old 2p vs running an old 4p.

[Agallion]

Big difference between running an old 2p vs running an old 4p.

I dont think there is. Both are equally poor choices in gear planning on blizzards part.

[nidosarg]

- - - Updated - - -



4pc =/= 2pc. With 2pc of old tier you can still use 4pc of new tier. Other way around is not possible. Either way Blizzard wants you to use 4pc of new tier.

True. I miss read your post.

[Emerald Archer]

Yet here we are with BM still running 2P T19.

mate, do you know the difference between 2pc and 4pc? completely different worlds.

you can wear a 4pc of current tier, with a 2pc of old tier, THAT'S the big difference, wearing an old 4pc prevents you from wearing the new stuff.

[Dracodraco]

I dont think there is. Both are equally poor choices in gear planning on blizzards part.

Not really. One you can still wear the current tiers' bonuses with. The other you can't. Wearing 2pc of the old set in no way limits your ability to use the new stuff, so that's okay. Wearing 4pc of the old set means the new set isn't strong enough, so that'll be changed. Easy to see the difference.

[Mavick]

mate, do you know the difference between 2pc and 4pc? completely different worlds.

you can wear a 4pc of current tier, with a 2pc of old tier, THAT'S the big difference, wearing an old 4pc prevents you from wearing the new stuff.

You're right, people are misconstruing BM wearing 2pc t19 with wearing a 4pc from an old tier, which hasn't happened (yet). And there is a big difference there.

However, there is more "new stuff" in a tier than just tier pieces. I think where alot of the frustration comes from in those posts is just how important that 2pc t19 has gotten. For many, it's a 40-50k or more dps increase alone depending on the fight. At this point, compared to the current t19 4pc it's almost like having a 4pc without wearing 4pc's. There's several good offpieces in ToS that will just never get equipped, and there's people like me with 950 legs that will never get equipped over a 915 t19 legs. Things like that kind of dull the sense of progression.

And it also makes it kind of shitty going forward. When we end up dropping t19 2pc finally it's likely going to be for vastly superior ilevel t21 gear and it's going to be like dropping 40k dps to go up by 2k, which is just stupid.

[Emerald Archer]

You're right, people are misconstruing BM wearing 2pc t19 with wearing a 4pc from an old tier, which hasn't happened (yet). And there is a big difference there.

However, there is more "new stuff" in a tier than just tier pieces. I think where alot of the frustration comes from in those posts is just how important that 2pc t19 has gotten. For many, it's a 40-50k or more dps increase alone depending on the fight. At this point, compared to the current t19 4pc it's almost like having a 4pc without wearing 4pc's. There's several good offpieces in ToS that will just never get equipped, and there's people like me with 950 legs that will never get equipped over a 915 t19 legs. Things like that kind of dull the sense of progression.

And it also makes it kind of shitty going forward. When we end up dropping t19 2pc finally it's likely going to be for vastly superior ilevel t21 gear and it's going to be like dropping 40k dps to go up by 2k, which is just stupid.

Yeah, I agree that the system is funky, but the original point that guy made, was that having to wear a previous tiers 4pc is so much worse than having to wear the 2pc.

Both aren't great, but one is in a totally different league.

[Agallion]

Not really. One you can still wear the current tiers' bonuses with. The other you can't. Wearing 2pc of the old set in no way limits your ability to use the new stuff, so that's okay. Wearing 4pc of the old set means the new set isn't strong enough, so that'll be changed. Easy to see the difference.

I disagree. Using older tier means your limited to using older tier gloves and cloak as thats the most optimal setup to limit the impact of lower ilvl, and thus you use the current 4 piece as well which is set. That means youre also limiting the legionaries as well as they cant be in any of the 6 slots.

Either way youre locked into gear choice in a way that is very much un-fun.

- - - Updated - - -

mate, do you know the difference between 2pc and 4pc? completely different worlds.

you can wear a 4pc of current tier, with a 2pc of old tier, THAT'S the big difference, wearing an old 4pc prevents you from wearing the new stuff.

You can still wear 2p of the new set. Its equally stupid.