SpaceX BFR - Earth to Earth - Anywhere on Earth in 60 minutes or less.

[Nerraw]

Only reason something like this isn't already in use is the ridiculous cost of getting stuff on the low orbit. I don't really see how rockets could become economic enough to be used on Earth to Earth travel.

Earth to other parts of the Solar System, sure (like there were any other way) but just hopping from one part of the same planet to another doesn't seem feasible. Maybe on Mars and smaller bodies.

Once the rocket is actually built, all they need to pay for is the fuel. Rich people going around the world on meetings will absolutely line up to pay to skip the 14-22 hour flights they'd otherwise have to get on, especially if the price will be as low as he claims.

[Souflikar]

Big words are Musks business. He relies on them more than on actually achieving anything. There will be no hyperloop and there will be no passenger rockets in the next 30 years.

I agree. I guess he has to keep fanning his flame to keep receiving those big government subsidy checks.

[Jeezy911]

What made you even think he is doing it for the money?

People have called him a con artist, it's ridiculous how many people are just haters. Probably the most important person we have had this century genuinely trying to progress humanity with no political agenda, and people just spew nonsense.

[Nerraw]

Commercial rockets of this scope won't work either, considering the necessity to get rid of fossile fuels alltogether.

At the speech this morning, he explained that the ISRU he'll bring to Mars should work on Earth as well. This article has a nice summary of what he plans to do for fuel: http://newatlas.com/spacex-methane-mars/25158/

Once it's up and running, it should be CO2 neutral.

[Bathory]

He hasn't achieve anything? Even if Tesla and Musk have not invented anything, they are driving our future, they're driving it at a faster pace than otherwise it would. It's irrelevant what happens. He has the money, he is spending it on the right course. Whether it happens or not, is totally irrelevant, it drives us forward regardless of the failure rate.

Pretty much this.

I read the comments directed at Musk and it's actually pretty sad with the amount of people jeering at him or telling him off for having big ideas. It seems the larger picture is lost in place of "HA HA YOUR BREAKTHROUGH IDEA HAS FAULTS IN IT. YOU BETTER JUST END THE ENTIRE THING BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN".

[Nerraw]

I agree. I guess he has to keep fanning his flame to keep receiving those big government subsidy checks.

You mean like ULA? https://arstechnica.com/science/2017...the-beginning/ (plenty of other stuff in this article too)

[zealo]

Nothing like a radiation dose to make your quick flight more awesome.

I would be shocked if the radiation that gets through the magnetosphere earth has hasn't been calculated for by SpaceX. Cosmic radiation becomes a much more serious health concern trying to get to Mars with humans than what this would be exposed to, which they're also aiming for.

[I Push Buttons]

I would be shocked if the radiation that gets through the magnetosphere earth has hasn't been calculated for by SpaceX. Cosmic radiation becomes a much more serious health concern trying to get to Mars with humans than what this would be exposed to, which they're also aiming for.

Why would a company who's entire business revolves around transporting people beyond the protection of Earth's magnetosphere care about radiation exposure!?!?

/s

[Chemii]

But some basic understanding of science wouldn't hurt, either.

I hope this is a troll.

[Molis]

Would love a graph that matches Trump supporters with Musk haters.

[Lahis]

Ohh what's that dear Mr. Burner? You don't have the slightest clue about realities of radiation exposure on normal or space flights?

Radiation exposure during commercial airline flights is about 4.3 µSv per hour, while on space shuttle missions for example it was 3.9 µSv per hour.

But that 3.9 µSv/h surely means that everyone who go to space will die during the trip!!!

[Kathandira]

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-41441877

So Elon Musk revealed plans to use SpaceX's new Mars rocket, called BFR (Big Falcon Rocket) for transportation across Earth as well; allowing for trips anywhere on Earth in less than 60 minutes (most flights around 30 minutes, 50+ minute flights are to the literal opposite side of the planet). He claimed the cost per seat would be about the same as full fare economy in an aircraft.



Do you think this is a realistic goal? I don't doubt the flight times, but the cost per seat... Seems pretty crazy if it is actually that cheap.

Wouldn't that be incredibly expensive to fuel for each trip?

[Nerraw]

Wouldn't that be incredibly expensive to fuel for each trip?

Rocket fuel is relatively inexpensive. The Falcon 9 mixture is certainly different from what BFR will use (kerosene VS methane), but for a Falcon 9 launch the fuel only makes up about 200k dollars out of the total ~60 million that one of those launches currently costs. Cram 200 people into that (doesn't have to be full cabin-size, they're not going to spend half a year on it after all), set ticket price at 1k, and you're good to go. I bet there's a LOT of people going around the world who'd pay a thousand bucks to make the trip in less than an hour.

[IIamaKing]

Ohh what's that dear Mr. Burner? You don't have the slightest clue about realities of radiation exposure on normal or space flights?

Radiation exposure during commercial airline flights is about 4.3 µSv per hour, while on space shuttle missions for example it was 3.9 µSv per hour.

Thats why all the astronauts die of radiation poisoning in space.....oh wait they dont, lol

[Afrospinach]

Wouldn't that be incredibly expensive to fuel for each trip?

I looked this up, a boeing 777LR can hold 145 tons/ 47000 gallons of kerosene. This can get you 15800km (which is more or less global coverage, not that many places you cannot fly from Dubai on that range). The BFR holds 240 tonnes of fuel which includes are ratio of kerosene(don't get confused, this is not the jet fuel above but some specially refined stuff) to oxidiser. Musk has stated the fuel bill for a falcon heavy is 200000$ which holds I think a similar amount to the BFR. Worth noting this is less kerosene than the 777 but for 300 people, or 400 on the lesser range models.

Lets just pretend the fuel bill is 200000 dollars, per 120 people, potentially getting you anywhere in the world is not that expensive.

My burning question is this. Re entry at 18000mph is a bit of a cunt. Smart chaps at NASA have been working on this for a long time. The shuttle has a nearly ablative skin of ceramic tiles. They lose a few every time it lands. What is the solution to this, as a rocket that may be asked to make several trips per day.

[Yvaelle]

At this point this guy maybe be the foremost opinion in the economics of rocket travel, though I do think he is often compromised by optimism.

Oh yeah, hyperloop is not going to happen, not the way it is slated.



I was also lead to believe by the BBC that BFR meant big fucking rocket. Now that is going to stick.

Thunderf00t is good at shitting on stuff but he's not actually interested in trying to addressing the concerns he is raising.

For example, in that video he opened by created a new problem - he proposed using moving vacuum seals when Elon only proposed welding all the tubes together.

Then Thunderf00t shat on the idea of moving vacuum tubes: okay, but you brought that up dude, not Elon.

Then Thunderf00t made it sound like the materials cost would be insane - but also pointed out it's the same amount of steel as the World Trade Center (NYC twin towers): that's no small amount of steel, but it's hardly enough steel to even qualify as a mega-project. It's a big skyscraper's worth, that's all - and really - for what it is - that's cheap.

He then, rightfully, addressed the concern about welding all the tubes together - metal expansion. The issue here is that there are existing solutions to this used in industries the world over. I'm sure he knows this even better than I do - but metal expansion applies to every pipeline on Earth, it applies to skyscrapers - if you build something big - you deal with metal expansion. The issue raised is that because of the length of it, the metal expansion would potentially be 3 football field lengths (not
much, considering the length of the tube).

He also brought up the threat of puncture or terrorism. This is actually much less of a problem then he makes it seem. He makes it seem like everyone in the tube would instantly die. In reality, if you punctured the tube - air would enter it, which would air brake (albeit slowly, because filling that enormous vacuum would take a long as time) the passenger chambers inside: the vehicle would ~slide to a stop, and it would have plenty of room to do so. It wouldn't actually slide of course because it's magnetic, but that's an easy way to picture it, like someone sliding along the ground - the friction (in this case air friction) would bring it to a slow stop.

Also, on that note - we're in control of the vehicles speed at all times because we control the magnets. So it's not like the next vehicle is going to go flying into the one in front - much like an metro rail system in the world - it would just mean we brake all the subsequent cars, or even the first car - remotely - and instantly - once a breach is detected (very easy to detect). Also, cars wouldn't be trapped in the tube - since they are magnetic we can simply reverse their course and bring them out the way they came.

You can solve metal expansion, atmospheric pressures, vacuum seal issues, and terrorism risks with a single solution - a solution every pipeline uses: a second external layer. By placing an external shell around the hyperloop you can avoid the risk of bullets or whatever breaching the tube, you can resolve the vacuum pressure issue by isolating the equipment if you even need to, you can resolve metal expansion by regulating temperature between the tubes, etc.

This solution is obvious, even if it isn't included in Elon's white paper (I haven't read it to check) - so if Thunderf00t was actually interested in showing why the Hyperloop wasn't feasible, he would bring it up and dispel it if he can - but he didn't - which means he's mostly after free YouTube clicks when he writes "HYPERLOOP BUSTED!1!1!" - and jerks off all the Elon haters.

[niil945]

You can solve metal expansion, atmospheric pressures, vacuum seal issues, and terrorism risks with a single solution - a solution every pipeline uses: a second external layer. By placing an external shell around the hyperloop you can avoid the risk of bullets or whatever breaching the tube, you can resolve the vacuum pressure issue by isolating the equipment if you even need to, you can resolve metal expansion by regulating temperature between the tubes, etc.

This solution is obvious, even if it isn't included in Elon's white paper (I haven't read it to check) - so if Thunderf00t was actually interested in showing why the Hyperloop wasn't feasible, he would bring it up and dispel it if he can - but he didn't - which means he's mostly after free YouTube clicks when he writes "HYPERLOOP BUSTED!1!1!" - and jerks off all the Elon haters.

Yeah I got a kick out of that. I thought of that in half a second and expected him to explain why that wouldn't work in the video and then he just glossed it over. "OMG 3 football fields!?!?!?!?" I'm not even certain what they're planning to do to address things that are potentially complicated problems, but as soon as he glossed over that part I knew he was just someone who wanted to get attention by pissing on someone else's idea.

[Nerraw]

My burning question is this. Re entry at 18000mph is a bit of a cunt. Smart chaps at NASA have been working on this for a long time. The shuttle has a nearly ablative skin of ceramic tiles. They lose a few every time it lands. What is the solution to this, as a rocket that may be asked to make several trips per day.

My assumption is that they'll end up using an upscaled variant of whatever they've been using on their Dragon capsule all these years. They've got a lot of data for that stuff by now. Keep in mind that they've been going full reusability going to Mars since the beginning. Whenever they want to do something, they ask if it'll help them towards Mars. Having sufficient ablation for repeated reentry is definitely something they've been working on, they're not stupid.

And the space shuttle, as cool as it looked, was seriously a death trap. Given it was a government-developed vehicle, with time and development cost constraints set by congress, I imagine they've had to just settle on a solution at some point. What leads me to believe this? The handling of the freezing temperatures on the boosters' O-rings on the morning of Challenger's last launch. That was a shitshow of incompetence brought on by governmental pressure, and I seriously doubt it was the first time it happened.

[Masark]

Commercial rockets of this scope won't work either, considering the necessity to get rid of fossile fuels alltogether.

Hence why the Raptor engine will be using methane, which is trivial to produce from non-fossil sources.

My burning question is this. Re entry at 18000mph is a bit of a cunt. Smart chaps at NASA have been working on this for a long time. The shuttle has a nearly ablative skin of ceramic tiles. They lose a few every time it lands. What is the solution to this, as a rocket that may be asked to make several trips per day.

Their existing heatshield material can supposedly handle hundreds of LEO re-entries before they need to replace it.

In a few cases, SpaceX has even been able to advance the state of the art. For the Dragon’s heat shield, the company chose a material called PICA (phenolic impregnated carbon ablator), first developed for NASA’s Stardust comet-sample-return spacecraft. Rejecting the prices they were getting from the manufacturer, they took advantage of help from NASA’s Ames Research Center to make it themselves. According to Mueller, SpaceX’s material, called PICA-X, is 10 times less expensive than the original, “and the stuff we made actually was better.” In fact, says Musk, a single PICA-X heat shield could withstand hundreds of returns from low Earth orbit; it can also handle the much higher energy reentries from the moon or Mars.

[PACOX]

Musk needs to chill a bit or he is going to come off like futurist back in the 60s.