The other side of the fat debate -- Obesity is complicated

[shadowmouse]

Let me lead with something from a fairly non-controversial resource: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2932668/

It is dated -- a 2010 article -- but it is from the National Institute of Health/NCBI and raises some questions. Here's the abstract:

The obesity epidemic is a global issue and shows no signs of abating, while the cause of this epidemic remains unclear. Marketing practices of energy-dense foods and institutionally-driven declines in physical activity are the alleged perpetrators for the epidemic, despite a lack of solid evidence to demonstrate their causal role. While both may contribute to obesity, we call attention to their unquestioned dominance in program funding and public efforts to reduce obesity, and propose several alternative putative contributors that would benefit from equal consideration and attention. Evidence for microorganisms, epigenetics, increasing maternal age, greater fecundity among people with higher adiposity, assortative mating, sleep debt, endocrine disruptors, pharmaceutical iatrogenesis, reduction in variability of ambient temperatures, and intrauterine and intergenerational effects, as contributing factors to the obesity epidemic are reviewed herein. While the evidence is strong for some contributors such as pharmaceutical-induced weight gain, it is still emerging for other reviewed factors. Considering the role of such putative etiological factors of obesity may lead to comprehensive, cause specific, and effective strategies for prevention and treatment of this global epidemic.

OK, while this is the kind of study that looks at the nuts and bolts of a problem, it isn't the most accessible writing style. Here's something more readable, but click through the various links for something perhaps more acceptable than Cracked.

http://www.cracked.com/article_22964...at-people.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_21578...g-you-fat.html

To close with something more recent than the NIH article, and possibly slightly better regarded than Cracked -- http://washingtonmonthly.com/2016/05...t-you-to-know/ Here's an excerpt:

The truth is, much of what we think we know about obesity and weight loss is regularly challenged by science. For example, here are the conclusions of research by Dr. Albert Stunkard of the University of Pennsylvania back in 1986:

The scientists summarized it in their paper: “The two major findings of this study were that there was a clear relation between the body-mass index of biologic parents and the weight class of adoptees, suggesting that genetic influences are important determinants of body fatness; and that there was no relation between the body-mass index of adoptive parents and the weight class of adoptees, suggesting that childhood family environment alone has little or no effect.”

In other words, being fat was an inherited condition.

Having studied this one for years now I can tell you that almost everything we think we know about obesity and weight loss is a myth. For example, we all assume that people who are obese eat too much because they lack will power. But imagine the kind of will power it takes to accomplish what one contestant on “The Biggest Loser” described as his daily routine.

Wake up at 5 a.m. and run on a treadmill for 45 minutes. Have breakfast — typically one egg and two egg whites, half a grapefruit and a piece of sprouted grain toast. Run on the treadmill for another 45 minutes. Rest for 40 minutes; bike ride nine miles to a gym. Work out for two and a half hours. Shower, ride home, eat lunch — typically a grilled skinless chicken breast, a cup of broccoli and 10 spears of asparagus. Rest for an hour. Drive to the gym for another round of exercise.

If he had not burned enough calories to hit his goal, he went back to the gym after dinner to work out some more. At times, he found himself running around his neighborhood in the dark until his calorie-burn indicator reset to zero at midnight.

In other words, other than sleeping, his entire day was devoted to losing weight. This is one of the people who recently learned that the result of these efforts is that his body is now producing hormones that make him feel hungry all the time and his metabolism has slowed to the point that he needs to consume 800 fewer calories per day than normal-weight people in order to avoid putting on pounds.

Why do the myths continue when the science is saying otherwise? Much of it is because they have become culturally embedded. But the $60 billion-a-year weight loss industry also has a lot a stake in maintaining them. Until we reject these myths and start following what science is telling us, we will continue to see the obesity problem grow.

Just some things to consider the next time one of the other fat threads gets posted -- probably about next week.

[GrinningMan]

Guess it's time to work out harder. Who would have thought.

[zlygork]

The obesity problem starts by the generalization of a cause

[Bigbazz]

I used to be overweight (not even close to obese mind you), craze on the internet and social media (youtube, instagram etc etc) over the last few years has been fasting and intermittent fasting. I tried it combined with calorie control close to 2 years ago and I literally melted to the point where I now actively have to make sure I eat enough to stop losing weight. I still intermittent fast on a daily basis but as apposed to being constantly hungry like before, now I'm constantly in a state of not bothered and have to make an effort, even going through periods of eating junk on a daily basis including cakes and chocolates, but only within a specific eating window... And simply not putting on any weight at all (consuming quite some calories in those windows too).

But honestly from my perspective in life there is no obesity crisis, I don't regularly see properly fat people and most people are simple normal healthy weight or at most mildly overweight (like say 20-30lbs) like I used to be... Like nothing has shifted in my lifetime, in any meaningful way with the people I see on the streets or daily life to suggest that there is more obesity now, if anything the school food programs and education since I was in school have improved massively towards preventing obesity from younger generations, and that shows.

When I was in school they served us full sugar coca cola and junk food on a daily basis, we had vending machines around the building for soda and chocolates etc, talking back in 2004.

[Stormspark]

Why would someone eat egg whites? Egg whites are empty calories.

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I used to be overweight (not even close to obese mind you), craze on the internet and social media (youtube, instagram etc etc) over the last few years has been fasting and intermittent fasting. I tried it combined with calorie control close to 2 years ago and I literally melted to the point where I now actively have to make sure I eat enough to stop losing weight. I still intermittent fast on a daily basis but as apposed to being constantly hungry like before, now I'm constantly in a state of not bothered and have to make an effort, even going through periods of eating junk on a daily basis including cakes and chocolates, but only within a specific eating window... And simply not putting on any weight at all (consuming quite some calories in those windows too).

But honestly from my perspective in life there is no obesity crisis, I don't regularly see properly fat people and most people are simple normal healthy weight or at most mildly overweight (like say 20-30lbs) like I used to be... Like nothing has shifted in my lifetime, in any meaningful way with the people I see on the streets or daily life to suggest that there is more obesity now, if anything the school food programs and education since I was in school have improved massively towards preventing obesity from younger generations, and that shows.

When I was in school they served us full sugar coca cola and junk food on a daily basis, we had vending machines around the building for soda and chocolates etc, talking back in 2004.

Yes, I've done that too. I'm actually not quite overweight. I'm 6'0 and 190 right now (heaviest I've ever been). I would like to get back down to 160 or so. I did the intermittent fasting thing and it worked, it's just hard for me to stick with.

[Foosha]

No it isnt. JUST EAT LESS. I fucking hate this blame anything and everything but me mentality of today. It's 100% YOUR fault you are obese (grown adults, not talking about said grown adults and making their children obese and stupid). It's not a cultural thing, everyone knows being grossly obese is bad for your health. Cigarettes were a cultural thing for decades and within 20ish years the tides were turned against it. Going to McDonalds is fine, going to McDonalds and consuming 2000 calories is NOT. It's not McDonalds fault the obese shithead thinks it's "ok" to get 4 hamburgers, ice cream and a soda drink.

[Smellyflute]

Egg whites are not empty calories. They're pure protein.

[Deleted]

No it isnt. JUST EAT LESS. I fucking hate this blame anything and everything but me mentality of today. It's 100% YOUR fault you are obese (grown adults, not talking about said grown adults and making their children obese and stupid). It's not a cultural thing, everyone knows being grossly obese is bad for your health. Cigarettes were a cultural thing for decades and within 20ish years the tides were turned against it. Going to McDonalds is fine, going to McDonalds and consuming 2000 calories is NOT. It's not McDonalds fault the obese shithead thinks it's "ok" to get 4 hamburgers, ice cream and a soda drink.

Have you looked inward to try and figure out why it is you hate certain kinds of people so fervently, and why this is such a personal issue for you? It can't be healthy to get this agitated about an issue that doesn't affect you in any way.

[Holofernes]

Fun fact: the german name for eggwhite, Eiweiß is also the german word for Protein.

[Bigbazz]

Why would someone eat egg whites? Egg whites are empty calories.

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Yes, I've done that too. I'm actually not quite overweight. I'm 6'0 and 190 right now (heaviest I've ever been). I would like to get back down to 160 or so. I did the intermittent fasting thing and it worked, it's just hard for me to stick with.

Egg whites are a great calorie/cost effective way to take in high ammounts of protein, should seem pretty obvious why they are popular with athletes and bodybuilders in particular.

[shadowmouse]

Here's one of the complications that apparently don't exist: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/16/5/09-1271_article

Abstract

Massive adipose tissue depositions in the abdomen and thorax sufficient to interfere with respiration developed in a patient with multiple medical problems. Biopsy of adipose tissue identified human adenovirus 36 (Adv 36) DNA. Adv 36 causes adipogenesis in animals and humans. Development of massive lipomatosis may be caused by Adv 36.

But what the hell would the CDC know, right?

[crakerjack]

Being fat isn't inherited. What IS inherited is eating disorders. The reason the kid and parents are fat isn't because there's an allele making them put on excess fat, it's because they possess a dominant allele that causes an individual to over consume.

[Deleted]

Here's one of the complications

I'd love someone to list the plethora of complications that result from massive weight loss. Funny how that side of the story is never talked about. People just assume that if an overweight or obese person loses all that weight, they'll be completely healthy, and no more a "burden" to the healthcare budget.

What a load of shit that is.

[Foosha]

Being fat isn't inherited. What IS inherited is eating disorders. The reason the kid and parents are fat isn't because there's an allele making them put on excess fat, it's because they possess a dominant allele that causes an individual to over consume.

Mmmmm if you are talking about the thrifty gene than your explanation isnt valid here. All eating disorders are the "nurture" part, that is society plays the role in eating disorders. Looking at obesity, one could say there is a predisposition in their genome that makes them get addicted to stuff easier, like food or drugs. While true, even then its probably 50/50 in terms of society or genes

[melodramocracy]

Thankfully the noted forum experts in the field have chimed in to debunk these conclusions.

[Foosha]

Have you looked inward to try and figure out why it is you hate certain kinds of people so fervently, and why this is such a personal issue for you? It can't be healthy to get this agitated about an issue that doesn't affect you in any way.

Nice ad hominem there buddeh

[Deleted]

Nice ad hominem there buddeh

I would've argued your point had you had one, but instead all you came out with was deplorable language, vitriol, hatred, and baseless claims.

[Foosha]

"fuck science because this is how I FEEL!!!"

Nice counter argument.

No, what is going on here is not science. It's bullshit social science that is looking to part the blame on corporations or other entities rather than the individual. The body is fucking simple. Calories in, calories out. There is no debate that if you eat less, you lose weight (unless you have that .01% pituitary disease/cancer). There is no fact basis, just random theories, random "blames".

It's true that some drugs may make you more hungry, or that some drugs may inhibit metabolism, but that doesnt mean it's impossible to lose weight. All that means is you have fuckin willpower if the former, or you adjust your calories. The body is not some magical thing, we have been studying it since the dawn of man. You dont eat, you die. You eat to much, you get fat. Pretty fuckin simple

[Deleted]

The body is fucking simple. Calories in, calories out.

One has to wonder what kind of education background someone would have to have to make such statements.

[kamuimac]

people just need to stop stuffing themselves with junk foods and drinks like pigs

here you go 80% of obisity cured in span of 2-3 years.